Sandi is Overrated

[BigMart]

Very interesting article in the HS

Especially for those who believe a ruckmen's worth is tap outs?

And for JB who somehow thinks Ben was dropped afet being in Hawthorns better players so far this year?

Leigh Matthews is the simplistic, and common sense voice of AFL commentary IMO and he is right

Hit out stats are totally different to ruck domination or indeed contribution

The best ruckmen in order of priority
1/ Take contested marks and provide a down the line or defensive contest in the air... Dempsey, Gardiner,
2/ Win their own ball.... Cox, Stynes
3/ hit the scoreboard and be a threat offensively... Everitt, S.Madden
4/ Win hit outs... Sandilands, Wynd

On Stats Spencer, Mumford and Cox have been the oppositions highest ranked player in every game in 2014?
I would suggest
Hickey out performed Spencer
Was well beaten by Mumford but at least hit the scoreboard the other way
Stanley was the best Ruckman against the eagles... Whilst Hickey was average

[dragit]

Yep and the guy with 20 odd games experience, who first kicked a footy 5 years ago is tracking very well for us so far…

Taking contested grabs, winning his own ball and kicking goals…

Expect him to be inconsistent for the next 3 years while he learns the game.

With Longer, our ruck stocks should be sorted for the next 10 years.

You still seem hell bent on proving Hickey is a spud… let it go, we forgive you… let's hope he becomes a gun.

[BigMart]

Stop being so defensive and actually read the post.

Not even having a go at Tom in the OP

I am obviously surprised about Hickeys performance in 2014 he has exceed my expectations but he isn't the (Ben who) many are saying. A balanced look at his output suggests he is going pretty well.

A SS look at his output suggests he is Simon Madden?!

Like when we try to down play the abilities of players as soon as they leave the club... And over compensate their perceived replacements to compensate for the loss.... Poor old Siposs was better than BJ at one point after a pre season game against Adelaide?!
The position the club took will work out long term.... But this is because of getting in the right talent... Not because we off
Loaded a dud? As poster try and suggest (or convince themselves)
We got rid of a very good player

I don't know why we have spent two massive investments securing two #1 Ruckmen. That will never make sense to me?

[joffaboy]

Yep and the guy with 20 odd games experience, who first kicked a footy 5 years ago is tracking very well for us so far…

Taking contested grabs, winning his own ball and kicking goals…

Expect him to be inconsistent for the next 3 years while he learns the game.

With Longer, our ruck stocks should be sorted for the next 10 years.

You still seem hell bent on proving Hickey is a spud… let it go, we forgive you… let's hope he becomes a gun.

Great post - so true. Cant let it go - sad for him

[gringo]

Yep and the guy with 20 odd games experience, who first kicked a footy 5 years ago is tracking very well for us so far…

Taking contested grabs, winning his own ball and kicking goals…

Expect him to be inconsistent for the next 3 years while he learns the game.

With Longer, our ruck stocks should be sorted for the next 10 years.

You still seem hell bent on proving Hickey is a spud… let it go, we forgive you… let's hope he becomes a gun.

Or is it a way to distract us from the fact that the little turd Jamie Cripps nailed our coffin shut despite being a photoless super spud? I smell a conspiracy.

[Spinner]

I rate a ruckmans worth with hit outs and rucking ability priority number one.

Those that don't, usually played as forwards.



The effect of rucking is not as objective as 'mark stats' and 'disposals'. That's why some are mistakenly drawn to undervalue the worth of rucking.

[BigMart]

Jamie Cripps got two soft goals but was terrible! When the heat was on he was missing.... And made no impact.

Funny how most people rated Wright (his opponent) in our Votes?

Spinner
Are you talking about Leigh Matthews under rating ruckwork?

It's still a 50/50 contest after a competitive ruck contest, even with a hit out....

Hickey was well beaten by opponent but far from a terrible game?

How did everyone see the Hickey v Mumford duel?

[joffaboy]

Jamie Cripps got two soft goals but was terrible! When the heat was on he was missing.... And made no impact.

Funny how most people rated Wright (his opponent) in our Votes?

Spinner
Are you talking about Leigh Matthews under rating ruckwork?

It's still a 50/50 contest after a competitive ruck contest, even with a hit out....

Hickey was well beaten by opponent but far from a terrible game?

How did everyone see the Hickey v Mumford duel?

Does Mumford play for WCE? What has he got to do with last nights game?

Hickey was not as good as the previous week, but nullified Natinui, but couldn't combat both he and Cox, battled manfully and was far from disgraced.

Mentioned in despatches by the commentators. Coming along nicely, despite constant carping and unwarranted critisism by some

[plugger66]

Jamie Cripps got two soft goals but was terrible! When the heat was on he was missing.... And made no impact.

Funny how most people rated Wright (his opponent) in our Votes?

Spinner
Are you talking about Leigh Matthews under rating ruckwork?

It's still a 50/50 contest after a competitive ruck contest, even with a hit out....

Hickey was well beaten by opponent but far from a terrible game?

How did everyone see the Hickey v Mumford duel?

Cripps has now had 4 coaches in 4 years and it seems all want to play him but hey they are all wrong and you are right. 2 soft goals. Someone has to kick them and a lot of small forward goals can be soft. Im guessing their coach was wrapped with him kicking 2 soft goals considering how close the game was. I certainly wish he missed both.

As for Hickey I just wish you would stop justifying you being right. I am 100% sure you want to fail to say you were right. Im guessing all other saints supporters who dont rate a Saints player and tell usare hoping to be proven wrong but not you.

[White Winmar]

Jamie Cripps got two soft goals but was terrible! When the heat was on he was missing.... And made no impact.

Funny how most people rated Wright (his opponent) in our Votes?

Spinner
Are you talking about Leigh Matthews under rating ruckwork?

It's still a 50/50 contest after a competitive ruck contest, even with a hit out....

Hickey was well beaten by opponent but far from a terrible game?

How did everyone see the Hickey v Mumford duel?

Cripps has now had 4 coaches in 4 years and it seems all want to play him but hey they are all wrong and you are right. 2 soft goals. Someone has to kick them and a lot of small forward goals can be soft. Im guessing their coach was wrapped with him kicking 2 soft goals considering how close the game was. I certainly wish he missed both.

As for Hickey I just wish you would stop justifying you being right. I am 100% sure you want to fail to say you were right. Im guessing all other saints supporters who dont rate a Saints player and tell usare hoping to be proven wrong but not you.

It was annoying in the extreme watching Cripps kick those goals. He may be soft. He may hang out the back. Fact is, his first goal put them in front at 3/4 time, and the one in the last slammed the lid shut. Agreed, he did SFA in general, but when the moment presented itself, he delivered. A bit like a lot of small/medium forwards. Pity we didn't have someone to do the equivalent in the last quarter.

[saintsRrising]

Very interesting article in the HS

Especially for those who believe a ruckmen's worth is tap outs?

Can you name even just one poster that believes a ruckman should only be measured by tap outs?

[Spinner]

Let's trade him for him with pick 75.

Surely that would be the market rate...

[BigMart]

Yes SR I can...

In fact more than one!

How about the many SS posters who argued Ben was a terrible Ruckman because he doesn't win hit outs... Which in turn made it a great decision to off load him.

Hickey is tracking OK.... Has he won the ruck position yet... Depends how you measure it?

On Cripps

First half he was pathetic, weak as piss and smashed by Wright.... He is a 4th year fringe small fwd who is getting a game because a player is injured.... He is regularly amongst the lowest impact players .... He runs forward of the ball constantly and got a joe the goose? ... Eli is a second game player who looks at the same level or better? Of the rookie list.

He's played 33 out of a possible 70 games and is yet to have a 20 possession game? For a running player originally drafted as a running back...average

He averages 11 possessions per game 3 contested and 1 clearance.... A real top 25 draft pick right there.

[HitTheBoundary]

Yes SR I can...

In fact more than one!

How about the many SS posters who argued Ben was a terrible Ruckman because he doesn't win hit outs... Which in turn made it a great decision to off load him.

"The many SS posters" is being vague. You claimed you could name many posters, then named none.

[BigMart]

Are suggesting none claimed this... There are lengthy threads about it?!

If you want to know look it up,

Terrible Ruckman... Can't win a tap out?

Has that never been stated? It was a SS staple

[White Winmar]

Yes SR I can...

In fact more than one!

How about the many SS posters who argued Ben was a terrible Ruckman because he doesn't win hit outs... Which in turn made it a great decision to off load him.

Hickey is tracking OK.... Has he won the ruck position yet... Depends how you measure it?

On Cripps

First half he was pathetic, weak as piss and smashed by Wright.... He is a 4th year fringe small fwd who is getting a game because a player is injured.... He is regularly amongst the lowest impact players .... He runs forward of the ball constantly and got a joe the goose? ... Eli is a second game player who looks at the same level or better? Of the rookie list.

He's played 33 out of a possible 70 games and is yet to have a 20 possession game? For a running player originally drafted as a running back...average

He averages 11 possessions per game 3 contested and 1 clearance.... A real top 25 draft pick right there.

The part that really pisses me off is we overlooked Darling for Cripps. Still burns me up. Imagine Jack in our forward line last night. Might have made the difference.

[BigMart]

There was a photo of Darling

[dragit]

There was a photo of Darling

boom tish!

[gringo]

Yes SR I can...

In fact more than one!

How about the many SS posters who argued Ben was a terrible Ruckman because he doesn't win hit outs... Which in turn made it a great decision to off load him.

Hickey is tracking OK.... Has he won the ruck position yet... Depends how you measure it?

On Cripps

First half he was pathetic, weak as piss and smashed by Wright.... He is a 4th year fringe small fwd who is getting a game because a player is injured.... He is regularly amongst the lowest impact players .... He runs forward of the ball constantly and got a joe the goose? ... Eli is a second game player who looks at the same level or better? Of the rookie list.

He's played 33 out of a possible 70 games and is yet to have a 20 possession game? For a running player originally drafted as a running back...average

He averages 11 possessions per game 3 contested and 1 clearance.... A real top 25 draft pick right there.

So if you are a top 25 pick you should play every game from draft day and then average 20+ possessions as a small forward. He looks okay and was one of their best in a preseason game this year. He might not be a star but he seems to be playing pretty good footy. Armitage must be a real spud he's played about 90 out of a possible 400 or something.

Fisher is a late pick who is better than Fiora. I don't see any of that as evidence.

On Ben he was pretty good around the ground for a few years then dropped away last year. When he had few hit outs and his general play dropped off he lost his appeal for me.

[plugger66]

Yes SR I can...

In fact more than one!

How about the many SS posters who argued Ben was a terrible Ruckman because he doesn't win hit outs... Which in turn made it a great decision to off load him.

Hickey is tracking OK.... Has he won the ruck position yet... Depends how you measure it?

On Cripps

First half he was pathetic, weak as piss and smashed by Wright.... He is a 4th year fringe small fwd who is getting a game because a player is injured.... He is regularly amongst the lowest impact players .... He runs forward of the ball constantly and got a joe the goose? ... Eli is a second game player who looks at the same level or better? Of the rookie list.

He's played 33 out of a possible 70 games and is yet to have a 20 possession game? For a running player originally drafted as a running back...average

He averages 11 possessions per game 3 contested and 1 clearance.... A real top 25 draft pick right there.

Funny how you can use stats. he has missed about 20 games through injury so for a 4th year player he has played a lot. Also he has been coached by 4 different coaches and all have wanted to play him.

[BigMart]

Perhaps by your 4th season... You might have got some more of the ball

For instance on Sat night at Home interstate against a weaker opponent on a younger player?

Btw
Armo (90 odd out of 160odd) the Dud had 20 in his 4th game?... Then again 5 or so times before his 30thgame with some Brownlow votes?

Cripps was not drafted as a small fwd,... Was made into one because he is not good enough for the midfield. Hopefully Billings Markworth and Eli do better?

[FQF]

The criticism of McEvoy was far from restricted to his tap work.

In fact, most people would easily forgive poor tap work for effectiveness around the ground.

That was what McEvoy was perceived to be lacking. He is both slow and not agile yet also easily monstered by the bigger ruckman. If you are not either of agile or monster then you are not going to be very effective.

Tap outs were just a further criticism.

[BigMart]

Oh, ok

[joffaboy]

The criticism of McEvoy was far from restricted to his tap work.

In fact, most people would easily forgive poor tap work for effectiveness around the ground.

That was what McEvoy was perceived to be lacking. He is both slow and not agile yet also easily monstered by the bigger ruckman. If you are not either of agile or monster then you are not going to be very effective.

Tap outs were just a further criticism.

Are you saying McEvoy is not mobile? He is as mobile as any other ruckman out there except for probably Natanui or mabye Ryder.bably as mobile

He seemed slow, but was only in comparision to others on the ground. Hickey is no quicker and would suggest he is probably as mobile.

[Spinner]

It's hilarious watching BM continually try and justify his early and unwarranted calls on both Cripps and Hickey...

Most people just concede.

Looking forward to the next ten years of justification after justification on these two.