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gringo wrote:Lyon has a dangerous lack of depth compared to the Hawks. Who ever got together hawks list is a genius. The quality of their 26th player isn't much worse than the 8th or 9th best player. they have a smattering of superstars and then a huge amount of very high level footballers. Freo peters out after their best 22. Sounds scarily familiar.
Lyon can make a good to average team play above themselves with clever strategy but sometimes you can't plug the dam wall with chewing gum. lyons game plan is taxing where the Hawks is exhilarating and rewarding. Freo will be alright once they get some players back but they need a bit of luck to climb the mountain again and even more to plant the flag.
Very good points I reckon gringo!
As we Saintas know only too well though, it can be a very fine line in things footballing.
Clarky's boy Ro$$Y could very easily have two flags by now. And (gulp!) even another at the Purple Puke could have been pinched at the death, but for poor kicking on goal. (Eg, Pavlova, set shot 35m out in front... missed the lot from memory. And Roo is made-out to be Robinson Crusoe when he misses... )
In the other coaching camp... how often does Varcoe miss from 35m out, dead in front, even looked around and realised he had time to steady...? Kicked it, and it's probably a draw. Extra time, and anything could happen... Hillibillies were also down several key players. Had the Skid Marks failed again against the Hillbillies and been eliminated... under-achievement with that list would have been the call, and the coach with the angry little man syndrome might not be getting another chance to punch holes in the MCG coaches' box...? (But more free time to abuse and humiliate seventeen year-olds trying to umpire kids' footy games... )
And we might not have had the opportunity to discuss this thread here on SS. Things footballing... fine line I reckon...
PS: And don't forget poor Cuddles. If it wasn't for nine or ten games where the scum opposition team kicked nine or ten lucky goals... it would still be Richo-who...
PPS: I'm very, very glad that the architect of that Skid Marks list is no longer there.
Do you have to be pissed to understand what you are saying because being completely sobar makes it impossible. Hillbilies, skid marks, pavlova, Ro$$y, purple puke, confused.
how about numpty peanut and killjoy
understand those???
you arent confused at all, just being a pretend clown
so you dont know what rossy is when the coaches name is ross lyon
or purple puke when freos dominant color is freaking purple
or who pavlova might be
seriously stop, pretending to be a complete idiot
Con Gorozidis wrote:
But the Lyon disciples trying to make him into some mystic guru just pisses me off.
But lets not carried away with him either.
This is what I don't understand... who are these supposed Lyon disciples?
I don't think there are any on here. There are plenty that think he is a very good coach, but I don't think any saints fans are "Lyon-lovers". There are however plenty of inane, bitter & twisted haters.
Whiskers is pretty quick to start jerking off everytime Lyon loses a game, but if he is such a s*** coach then just be happy he isn't coaching us anymore?
Fremantle were awful last night, but at round 3, missing their best midfielders I don't think they'll care too much. They'll still end up top 4.
Exactly. those supposed RL lovers dont start a thread everytime they win so i dont get why everytime they lose we need this stuff on a Saints forum.
I opened a thread about Clarkson being good<, never said Lyon is bad (didn't even mention his GF chokes in OP)
Con Gorozidis wrote:
But the Lyon disciples trying to make him into some mystic guru just pisses me off.
But lets not carried away with him either.
This is what I don't understand... who are these supposed Lyon disciples? I don't think there are any on here........
There were certainly on here and imho they are still lurking within all facets of the club
Their cancerous propaganda wasn't just heard here. They shouted and bleated the same message throughout the club and in the media in 2012.
I also believe the negativity and messiah worshiping and rear vision gazing by many may have spread to the playing group and to the corridors of Linton St and LHC. I believe we may have had a chance to go all the way in 2012, but perhaps there were some who wanted their self fulfilling prophecy to come true; 'without RL we can't achieve success'
The balance of opinion by crusaders (or the RL disciples would simply call them heretics) such as whiskers3614 was necessary and undeniably irrefutable. Some still wrongly believe RL is the messiah
Just the 8 or so posts in the other thread… but you weren't baiting at all by starting this thread were you?
whiskers3614 wrote:Nathan Burke scathing assessment of Freo coaches lack of action.
David Parkin:
"This will leave Fremantle with a giant scar"
David Parkin: : I heard a well known journalist say at half time- this is a win for football"
wonder what they meant?
"Lyon is a blight on our game." -AGREE!
One trick pony gelded!
Even if they make GF Lyon and Ballantyne will be rabbits in the headlights like tonight and 2013 GF.
Once you choke once it becomes self perpetuating!
Lots of people respected and lauded Eade and Wallace too.
We all know how many GF's they won!
exactly the same number as Lyon. Gotta get the Lyon lovers when you can!
Dave McNamara wrote:
In the other coaching camp... how often does Varcoe miss from 35m out, dead in front, even looked around and realised he had time to steady...? Kicked it, and it's probably a draw. Extra time, and anything could happen... Hillibillies were also down several key players. Had the Skid Marks failed again against the Hillbillies and been eliminated... under-achievement with that list would have been the call, and the coach with the angry little man syndrome might not be getting another chance to punch holes in the MCG coaches' box...? (But more free time to abuse and humiliate seventeen year-olds trying to umpire kids' footy games... )
nasty dave...nasty...
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
If we are going on about past coaches, GT was a better coach than RL. GT turned the club and team around to a winning unit, and RL just tuned-up an experienced team and applied a predictable, disciplined game plan to get success. Both have things in common..got teams winning, made finals but never won a premiership, and neither will probably do so in the future. Clarkson succeeds by understanding his game plan needs continual modifying to keep one step ahead, and also knows how to balance a team, by player type and skill set to achieve finals success. He and his recruiters have the knack of recruiting exactly the right kind of player to do a particular job.
PADDLEPOP1001 wrote:Let's face it Lyon was a good/Great coach for our club at the time but I think he is better at driving a team who are ready to have a crack at a flag rather than building /Rebuilding a side which Clarko has virtually had to do !
This is closer to the truth than most of the infantile crap posted above about Lyon.
As well Lyon had a team that didn't turn it up like the Freo softcocks.
Lyon is a terrific coach and anybody who says different is an idiot.
Also how does it help a Saints fan if Lyon doesn't win a flag apart from petty vindictiveness?
Exactly. Our 2009 team would piss on the current Freo team and beat Hawthorn as well.
I am certainly no Lyon lover but statistically he is an outstanding coach as he got into the GF with teams many consider not to be technically better than most others. Twice with us and once with Freo. Malthouse has not made many more and he's been around since before mammals became the dominant life force on the planet. If he wins one in the next few years he will rightfully be considered one of the best.
I think the way he left our list, the messy deals behind our backs, his retiring players while probably knowing he wouldn't be there and telling our players the era was over have tarnished his reputation as a person of integrity.
Enough water has passed under the bridge to not hate him and be able to acknowledge exceptional coaching skills. I think we have a coach in the same vein as Ross now with non negotiables, presenting ourselves as a club who relishes pressure on the ball carrier and full ground defensive efforts, simple roles handed to players to help them get through a game with out being overloaded etc. Hopefully this grounding along with the elite kids we bring in will create a Hawks style list with a Ross Lyon like pressure around the ground.
One thing about Lyon teams is poor accuracy in front of goal in big matches. Whether it is due to that drop in concentration due to fatigue from their manic attack on the ball/man and field running; or simply not enough emphasis on it at training. Either/or, it has cost him three possible flags.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
Con Gorozidis wrote:
But the Lyon disciples trying to make him into some mystic guru just pisses me off.
But lets not carried away with him either.
This is what I don't understand... who are these supposed Lyon disciples?
I don't think there are any on here. There are plenty that think he is a very good coach, but I don't think any saints fans are "Lyon-lovers". There are however plenty of inane, bitter & twisted haters.
Whiskers is pretty quick to start jerking off everytime Lyon loses a game, but if he is such a s*** coach then just be happy he isn't coaching us anymore?
Fremantle were awful last night, but at round 3, missing their best midfielders I don't think they'll care too much. They'll still end up top 4.
Exactly. those supposed RL lovers dont start a thread everytime they win so i dont get why everytime they lose we need this stuff on a Saints forum.
I meant in the media. I dont think there are any on here . Some in the media do carried away with him like he is some guru.
There was one bloke on here who used to post who was a lover - but he doesnt come on anymore and I cant remember his name to be honest.
PADDLEPOP1001 wrote:Let's face it Lyon was a good/Great coach for our club at the time but I think he is better at driving a team who are ready to have a crack at a flag rather than building /Rebuilding a side which Clarko has virtually had to do !
This is closer to the truth than most of the infantile crap posted above about Lyon.
As well Lyon had a team that didn't turn it up like the Freo softcocks.
Lyon is a terrific coach and anybody who says different is an idiot.
Also how does it help a Saints fan if Lyon doesn't win a flag apart from petty vindictiveness?
Exactly. Our 2009 team would piss on the current Freo team and beat Hawthorn as well.
each to their own opinion.....lyon is NOT a terrific coach as one poster on here has been quoted as saying.........if he was he would not have lost 4 grand-final games ffs........it is extremely offensive to suggest that anybody who doen't sip this poster's and lyin's bath water is an idiot.......but then again ...who would expect any difference..????... not i.......and yes i hope he never wins a flag......vindictivness...??? who cares if a certain poster doesn't like that.......i don't give a rats....lyin took his pieces of silver and at the same time sold our future down the river........that's without mentioning the two games he threw against the swans before retiring 4 guys against their will...and knowledge ....before walking out the door.....terrible bloke imho...but........his coaching status is yet to be determined......
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
gringo wrote:I am certainly no Lyon lover but statistically he is an outstanding coach as he got into the GF with teams many consider not to be technically better than most others. Twice with us and once with Freo.
don't agree with that......in 2009 we were easily the best team in the competition......should have won....would have except for two very poor coaching decisions......three if you count not playing armo......the first was to play that girl's blouse dawson in favour of maxxie...stupid decision especially in view of the fact dawson had been in hospital all night on a drip.......the second was to take ball off the ground and then forget about him.....a fact lyin acknowledged at the time...........some of you have very very short memories.....
.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will
"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"
However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
Same as I couldn't care less about Thomas or Watters.
I could care less about Richo.
This childlike blaming singularily of Lyon for Saints failures while coach says much more about the posters mentality than about Lyon.
He is GAWN. A long time ago to. MOVE ON. For goodness sakes.
This is getting a mite sad
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
joffaboy wrote:Frankly couldn't care less about former coach.
Same as I couldn't care less about Thomas or Watters.
I could care less about Richo.
This childlike blaming singularily of Lyon for Saints failures while coach says much more about the posters mentality than about Lyon.
He is GAWN. A long time ago to. MOVE ON. For goodness sakes.
This is getting a mite sad
Some of us need something to hang our hats on during the tough times ahead, much like Collingwood supporters rejoicing at Carlton failures.
As for being bitter at his leaving I do not belong to that group at all, as I wish Ball, Goddard and Dal all the personal success at their new clubs as long as it isn't against the Saints. Don't wish bad things on a personal level on Lyon and his family but reserve the right to barrack against him at every opportunity.
fair comment (IMHO) JB. Time to move on. Ross Lyon gave us a period of very successful (home and away) football, but was found wanting in successive Grand Finals, I don't have any bitterness toward him for that. Apart from the replay in 2010, the games could have gone either way. I was disappointed in the manner in which he left the club, but no use in crying about it three years after the fact. Alastair Clarkson may well be a "great bloke" (or a complete knobhead) he does not receive his salary for being a good bloke, but a good coach, and (IMHO) history has shown the answer to the question, of who (between him and Lyon) is the better coach. I (for what it's worth) think that we blundered in employing Watters (hindsight is a WONDERFUL thing is it not? ) now that we have Alan Richardson as senior coach, I believe quite frankly that discussions about previous coaches serve no useful purpose at all (other than in providing an interesting hypothetical debate)
joffaboy wrote:
He is GAWN. A long time ago to. ...
only truthful thing written
and we are still fixing the playing list...
Hopefully Dunstan and Billings might fill the void left by the "trading" debacle at the end of '09 (wasted pick on Lovett and club favourite son banished to the filth for nothing. Sack Lyon immediately the siren sounds in 2009 (for Gf incompetence re Ball) and we probably keep Ball and get something better than Lovett with that wasted pick. Sure we probably don't get that GF opportunity with a new coach in 2010 but we also wouldn't be as bad list-wise as we are now!
)
(But more free time to abuse and humiliate seventeen year-olds trying to umpire kids' footy games...
)
( God help me)