big mac and the pelican...

[The Redeemer]

He gets the odd tap without enforcing anything on any contest.

Daniher did ok on him last night!

[citywest]

Should this dumb thread even be in the football forum.

Some Hawthorn player, means nothing tome.

More interested in great stars of the future - Dunstan, Acres, Longer etc.

McEvoy is history - who cares? Hickey is already a better tap ruck and more mobile. Both he and Longer will be better than McEvoy

Hickey and Longer will be very good players for us and I am very happy with the trade. But for you to say they will both be better than McEvoy is purely sour grapes. You have no idea whether that is true or not, and neither do I (or anyone else for that matter).

[BigMart]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

[White Winmar]

Should this dumb thread even be in the football forum.

Some Hawthorn player, means nothing tome.

More interested in great stars of the future - Dunstan, Acres, Longer etc.

McEvoy is history - who cares? Hickey is already a better tap ruck and more mobile. Both he and Longer will be better than McEvoy

Hickey and Longer will be very good players for us and I am very happy with the trade. But for you to say they will both be better than McEvoy is purely sour grapes. You have no idea whether that is true or not, and neither do I (or anyone else for that matter).

Will they be better than Bellchambers and Ryder, Helen?

[Con Gorozidis]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

Who cares. Hickey is a gun.
Geary has good endurance too - does that make him a better player than Jack Steven ? No.

[sunsaint]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

Who cares. Hickey is a gun.
Geary has good endurance too - does that make him a better player than Jack Steven ? No.

you cant win a contest if you dont get to it
what it boils down to is - some Saints supporters didnt rate him - Hawks rated him highly

[magnifisaint]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

Geez your argument is stupid!

Ask yourself how slow McEvoy is and how high can he jump?

[saintspremiers]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

Geez your argument is stupid!

Ask yourself how slow McEvoy is and how high can he jump?

Macca regularly scores 3 goals in a game doesn't he?

[joffaboy]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

Geez your argument is stupid!

Ask yourself how slow McEvoy is and how high can he jump?

McEvoy would have got nowhere near the passage of play where Hickey kicked to Roo then ran 75 metres to the goals square where he nearly marked in a contest against three GWS backs.

Lets get this straight. Mac is a good ruckman, but we have Hickey, Longer, Pierce, Holmes and Stanley (who rucked OK today). We got Savage Acres and DUNSTAN.

Looking like a great trade by the Saints and Hawks.

But someone called Hickey a gumby - lol - just lol

[Con Gorozidis]

More mobile than one of the best runners at the club 2011-20-13?

He is more agile

McEvoy blows him away in endurance running

Described by a team mate as an endurance beast

Who cares. Hickey is a gun.
Geary has good endurance too - does that make him a better player than Jack Steven ? No.

you cant win a contest if you dont get to it
what it boils down to is - some Saints supporters didnt rate him - Hawks rated him highly

Are you having a laugh?
Macca might make 100 contests but all 5m too late cos he's as slow as a dinosaur .

The fact is we have Hickey who is a gun and Dunstan
No contest .

[desertsaint]

Not sure how we could fit McEvoy, Hickey, and Longer in the same team, and then of course we have Stanley.
Very happy with the trade, and if it helps the Hawks beat Freo this year I'm even happier - would like to see Ben with a premiership medallion around his neck. Think we've done very well from the trade, and think the Hawks are just as happy.
Win-win.

[evertonfc]

Pretty simple in my book.

McEvoy was a fine ruckman but not really as good as some believe. He was over hyped because he was seen as a 'leader' - which he was but he still nowhere near elite.

And while he had a tank, he wasn't fast, nor good by hand or foot. His ruck work was decent; B+ at the time he left. He'll probably become an A-grader in the next year or two.

However, I just feel we're five years from our next window being completely open. He'll be in his very prime for a year or two (very few rucks are elite beyond 30 due to wear and tear, especially lumbering ones) - but we need guys who can star over a five year period while we are in the window. That's what we've accumulated in Longer, Hickey and Dunstan, probably in Delaney and possibly with Savage.

Effectively, we gave up Dal, Goddard and McEvoy (not exactly, but roughly) to create this situation (throw in the complex deal for Tom Lee as well). It's brutal this game but our awful recruiting under Ross has left us with no choice but to make hard calls to accelerate rejuvenation.

Had we held onto all pur old stars, we'd be in contention for 7th-9th, which to me is a pointless place to be. You're either in it to win a premiership or build a list capable of winning the next one.

[St Lenny]

Hickey was fantastic for us yesterday. Big Mac NEVER played a game that good for us. And let me remind people, he was ranked 27th in the Ruckman rankings. So we made the right decision in my book.

[roskilde]

Did anybody notice that Pelican sits right next to the Head Coach now?

Is that orthodox? Or has their been some reshaping up there?

[gringo]

Big mac was always a player with potential and post gardiner he was expected to carry most of our ruck load. He never arrived for us but he is still young for a ruckman despite playing a lot of games. I never saw Minson becoming an AA ruck nor the big Russian for melbourne so may be not the best judge but hickey was on par in my view last year but offer a bit more in the fact that he often get a hand on the ball at most contests and covers more ground more quickly. I think the Hawks have had so much bad luck with rucks they were just happy to get a guy who's body didn't break down for 90% of every season.

We could both potentially win from this one but as it stands we are ahead.

[stinger]

savage will never be a star...imho.......i just hope he develops into a regular.....

[vacuous space]

Hickey has always had elite endurance. McEvoy might have had him covered in 3k time trials and maybe beep tests, I don't know. I don't have those numbers. I will point out that McEvoy had 82% TOG in R1 and 83% TOG in R2. Hickey had 91% TOG in R1 and 88% yesterday. It doesn't seem like he's struggling to run out games. He's covering the ground well and marking everything. His ruckwork seems fine and he's competing hard after the bounce. I have exactly zero complaints so far. At worst, it was a sideways move that allowed us an extra pick which we used on a midfield runner.

There's no reason both teams can't be happy with this deal.

[stinger]

Stinger - you raise an interesting point.
Pelican was fixated with his plan to get 3 picks inside 20 but would Macca and Nds got us Boyd ?
It's possible. Which would have left us with Boyd, Billings + pick 23 - pretty interesting proposition .

All speculative I guess.

On another note - the title to this thread sounds like a great Children's Book.

[stinger]

We're definitely ahead from the last trade/FA period...

In
2 first round draft picks
A highly regarded, top 10 DP ruckmen,
A mature monster handling full back we were desperate for
A young unproven CHB
A mature mid in savage

Out
A second round pick
A good ruckmen with leadership potential, but didn't win many hitouts
An excellent mid who is well past his best

I'm still rapt with this outcome. Each to their own if you don't think we've done well here.

i think we could have done better when trading ben........was he ever offered to any other club??????....would anyone have given us better than pick 18.......????....did the pelican just rollover to the hawks......???



i think so......ben was overseas and didn't know about it...the only info he had was that he was being traded to the premiers........

Pelchen has stated in a public forum that they contacted Ben overseas & that he was agreeable to the trade.
.

yeah...how is that different to what i said.....

[dragit]

Which other club was going to give us a better deal than 18, 19 & Savage sting?

I think we have clearly ruled out GWS.

[PJ]

Anybody that can't see the potential from trading Ben is either stupid or baiting. so which one is it?

[SydneySainter]

Maybe Pelchen just doesn't rate McEvoy as much as we (or the Hawks) do?

McEvoy was always a player I never knew what to make of. Covered a lot of a ground for a big man, could take a contested mark, had goal sense, but was servicable at best in the ruck. Leaps too early, seldom taps to advantage and consistently well-beaten by the comps A-grade rucks.

I'm sure McEvoy will be a fine player for the Hawks, as Hickey and Dunstan will be fine players for us.

[satchmo]

I think that McEvoy will do very well at the Hawks. That is exactly what makes it win/win.

[SainterK]

I think that McEvoy will do very well at the Hawks. That is exactly what makes it win/win.

Me too Satch.

Much more suited to a 50/50 ruck forward role with Hale.

[dragit]

I'm pretty glad Dunstan won a rising star nomination wearing our jumper instead of a brown & gold one.