Garlett gone

[BigMart]

Definitely worth a shot by Hawthorn... He like many other Pick 40s won't make it? Either injury, ability or commitment?

No harm, no foul IMO

Shame that he doesn't want to make the most of his opportunity, but each to their own I suppose

I wouldn't have been upset if StK used their pick 40odd on him.... Turned out we couldn't anyway, because we traded it

Definitely not worth risking a first or even second rounder on him

[plugger66]

Definitely worth a shot by Hawthorn... He like many other Pick 40s won't make it? Either injury, ability or commitment?

No harm, no foul IMO

Shame that he doesn't want to make the most of his opportunity, but each to their own I suppose

I wouldn't have been upset if StK used their pick 40odd on him.... Turned out we couldn't anyway, because we traded it

Definitely not worth risking a first or even second rounder on him

You still dont get it do you. The Hawks won the flag so they could take the risk. We finished near the bottom and had previously bad publicity and the media would have been saying typical saints, they couldnt look after another player just like Lovett. it was never worth the risk even if we didnt pay any trade for him. Sometimes there is a bigger picture than just picks. Ask Terry Wallace if he would have got Cousins in hindsight. Im guessing no from what he said recently.

[falka]

So hawks had picks 18, Franklin, Savage and pick 37? And ended up with McEvoy and Hartung.
And they are being lauded. Terrible effort.
Once again premierships cover everything up

Big void of young talent coming through for the hawks.

In 2-3 years they could be bottom 4 IMO.

If i was a hawks supporter and someone opposition supporter said that to me i would give it the who cares. 2 flags and a chance of a third in 7 years sounds pretty good to me.

I agree would love to be in Hawks position one day, aiming for another flag.
My point is, when you look at it on paper, they didn't do amazingly well.
Would they have been better off with Longer, keeping their compo pick and getting another pick in for Savage, compared with what they have done?
If Big Mac plays a part in a flag, good on em. If not, it doesn't look so great

[plugger66]

Big void of young talent coming through for the hawks.

In 2-3 years they could be bottom 4 IMO.

If i was a hawks supporter and someone opposition supporter said that to me i would give it the who cares. 2 flags and a chance of a third in 7 years sounds pretty good to me.

I agree would love to be in Hawks position one day, aiming for another flag.
My point is, when you look at it on paper, they didn't do amazingly well.
Would they have been better off with Longer, keeping their compo pick and getting another pick in for Savage, compared with what they have done?
If Big Mac plays a part in a flag, good on em. If not, it doesn't look so great

Yep could have done better but savage was poor for us last week, Longer played in our seconds and Ben played a really good game. Longer will not have anywhere near the impact ben will this year and savage is a run of the mill mid. maybe they know they only have a couple of years up the top so IMO they did what was best for those couple of years. Even the Garlett pick had it worked was for a more mature aged player. Well one that had two years senior footy experience anyway.

[bergholt]

Definitely worth a shot by Hawthorn... He like many other Pick 40s won't make it? Either injury, ability or commitment?

Many pick 16s won't make it either. Ben Jacobs, Mitch Brown (WC), Adam Pattison, Josh Willoughby, David Haynes - all in the last 15 years. We gave up that pick for Lovett who had proven talent with some question marks. Hawthorn gave up their pick for a guy with no runs on the board but also with serious question marks. Both of them failed. How are the two things different?

[BigMart]

I think when you analyse drafting pre 95 shouldn't be considered, at best clubs worked it out mid 90s

Yes there have been misses at 16

And misses at 40

But if you reviewed drafting on success rates

Every round, there would be a decrease in realistic expectation of success.... And actual success rate?
Especially removal of Father/Son from the equation

Therefore the risk taken with a 40+ pick of wasting.... Is far greater if you take a punt with a top 20 pick

That's why you get far greater currency trading a top pick, compared to a bottom pick?!

[dragit]

So hawks had picks 18, Franklin, Savage and pick 37? And ended up with McEvoy and Hartung.
And they are being lauded. Terrible effort.
Once again premierships cover everything up

Big void of young talent coming through for the hawks.

In 2-3 years they could be bottom 4 IMO.

If i was a hawks supporter and someone opposition supporter said that to me i would give it the who cares. 2 flags and a chance of a third in 7 years sounds pretty good to me.

Absolutely… though some people would have you believe that "the good clubs" don't burn picks for short term success, that it's easy to challenge and also re-build at the same time. This is rarely possible, Geelong have very exceptional circumstances, Sydney have had their own set of payment rules… every other club is up and down.

As you said, the Hawks can afford to take a risk or two… premierships mask nearly all problems.

I do think they'll be up the creek in a couple of years, but they might also have 3 flags in a decade… lose a couple of grand finals and your drafting/trading errors are amplified and highlighted for a long time.

[plugger66]

Big void of young talent coming through for the hawks.

In 2-3 years they could be bottom 4 IMO.

If i was a hawks supporter and someone opposition supporter said that to me i would give it the who cares. 2 flags and a chance of a third in 7 years sounds pretty good to me.

Absolutely… though some people would have you believe that "the good clubs" don't burn picks for short term success, that it's easy to challenge and also re-build at the same time. This is rarely possible, Geelong have very exceptional circumstances, Sydney have had their own set of payment rules… every other club is up and down.

As you said, the Hawks can afford to take a risk or two… premierships mask nearly all problems.

I do think they'll be up the creek in a couple of years, but they might also have 3 flags in a decade… lose a couple of grand finals and your drafting/trading errors are amplified and highlighted for a long time.

Exactly.

[Gershwin]

Put simply it was a poor drafting decision by Hawthorn and I'm sure someone is getting their but kicked.

At the least they could have taken Eli Templeton!

[BigMart]

Not poor at all... By any club IMO

He was a risk... Like any pick 40... The lower you go, the less likely you are to cut it... I reckon 40 was a touch high, but as pointed out Hawthorn are in a good position

A pick 40 not making it... Butt kicked? No

I'll be honest
Brodie Murdoch, where was he picked up? If he doesn't cut it... Butt kicked?

Different story when top 20 picks are failing?

[dragit]

Not poor at all... By any club IMO

He was a risk... Like any pick 40... The lower you go, the less likely you are to cut it... I reckon 40 was a touch high, but as pointed out Hawthorn are in a good position

A pick 40 not making it... Butt kicked? No

I'll be honest
Brodie Murdoch, where was he picked up? If he doesn't cut it... Butt kicked?

Different story when top 20 picks are failing?

The Hawks like all clubs have squandered many picks from the first round and early second round of the draft
2000
21 Ries, 28 Greene
2001
16 Ladson, 20, Elstone
2002
8 Luke Brennan
2003
25 Harry Miller
2004
21 Tom Murphy, 26 Matthew Little
2005
3 Ellis, 6 Dowler, 22 Muston
2006
6 Thorp, 24 Renouf,
2008
16 Shoenmakers

After giving away 2 first round picks for a decent, but not great ruckmen, Garlett was their second pick… If Hartung fails, their 2013 draft will rival some of our stinkers.

[Bernard Shakey]

savage was poor for us last week, Longer played in our seconds and Ben played a really good game. Longer will not have anywhere near the impact ben will this year and savage is a run of the mill mid.

Ben played a really good game,really?

Longer will not have anywhere near the impact of Ben this year, really?

Savage is a run of the mill mid, maybe!

I reckon you've probably got all those points wrong. Interesting to see what you have to say in six months!

[Spinner]

savage was poor for us last week, Longer played in our seconds and Ben played a really good game. Longer will not have anywhere near the impact ben will this year and savage is a run of the mill mid.

Ben played a really good game,really?

Longer will not have anywhere near the impact of Ben this year, really?

Savage is a run of the mill mid, maybe!

I reckon you've probably got all those points wrong. Interesting to see what you have to say in six months!

I reckon all three of those points are right on right now and for the near future.


1. Did Ben not have a good game? How can this point change in six months? Will the video tape of R1 show something different?

2. The point was within this year. Not sure the major different between 6 months and a year. Most likely Ben will have the better year, pending injuries. 100 odd games to 9. Senior player to reserves. How is this a major statement?

3. Is Savage some exceptional midfielder in disguise? Should he have been a first round draft pick? Let's hope he transforms but we will probably get what we paid for... I'm hoping something better but certainly normal to think not.

[bergholt]

Therefore the risk taken with a 40+ pick of wasting.... Is far greater if you take a punt with a top 20 pick

Correct. But Lovett was more of a known quantity than Garlett. He was proven to be good at AFL level while Garlett was/is completely untried. Both dodgy off field but Lovett clearly had the edge on it. So it makes sense to pay more for him.

If you say that Garlett at 37 was a risk worth taking then you're also saying that Lovett at 16 was worth it.

[BigMart]

Lovett was 27.... Reached his peak (albeit not a dizzy height) never A Grade for any sustained period .... He was a mature d**khead

Dayle.... A 20yo d**khead, unknown potential and could possibly learn better habits

Dayle didn't belt women... The main reason I loathe Lovett... Or take advantage of them under the influence... Guys a dog

[maverick]

Yep could have done better but savage was poor for us last week, Longer played in our seconds and Ben played a really good game. Longer will not have anywhere near the impact ben will this year and savage is a run of the mill mid. maybe they know they only have a couple of years up the top so IMO they did what was best for those couple of years. Even the Garlett pick had it worked was for a more mature aged player. Well one that had two years senior footy experience anyway.

Why do people keep saying McEvoy had a really good game.
He didn't make any best players I saw, but Leunberger did….

[BigMart]

Are you sure?

He made all of the best player lists I saw.... He took 5 contested marks and got heaps of it?

Highlighted on both Sunday Footy shows

[defacto]

tried to say as much. except some over the east seem to think they know more about the talent over here in the west....again

I admit I was one who thought he was worth a punt with a later pick. Is it possible he can go home and after a couple of years in the WAFL try again with the Dockers or WCE, defacto? Or is his reputation so damaged that no one will give him a go? Shame really. What a waste of a prodigious talent. I hope he can get it together for another shot at the big time.

i dont think his head is in football anymore to be honest. even if he pulled it all around and was serious i cant see the dockers or freo going for him, he'd have to demonstrate 3-4 years of solid performance and work ethic to get drafted, by then he's probably getting too old. i dont think that is in him anyways

right now he's the type who wants to play socially, have some beers with the lads after, then hit the pubs/clubs, maybe some activities you cant get away with in the AFL. he's like many blokes in their early 20s, only difference is those blokes dont have any talent well atleast not at garletts level

off-field issues aside he still had question marks on his ability to break into the AFL anyways, very lazy footballer. flashy but no defencive side to his game and his endurance is questionable to be a mid

truth is starting to come out on why the hawks axed him

[defacto]

Not poor at all... By any club IMO

He was a risk... Like any pick 40... The lower you go, the less likely you are to cut it... I reckon 40 was a touch high, but as pointed out Hawthorn are in a good position

A pick 40 not making it... Butt kicked? No

I'll be honest
Brodie Murdoch, where was he picked up? If he doesn't cut it... Butt kicked?

Different story when top 20 picks are failing?

the difference here though is if someone tells you this kid has issues and he's a 95% chance of not seeing the 2 years out without something seriously going wrong, would you still waste pick 38 on him given the certainty?

of course not. would you risk a rookie pick, yeah maybe....

[BigMart]

Not sure

The same could be said for AL.... With a lot more intell and we used a FRDP

What if he didn't fall to bits... What if he did a 'Darling'

For them.... Worth the risk... They didn't take him at 40 he was gone at their next pick? It was a calculated risk, they would have went in with eyes open.
50K over one years and a rookie upgrade? Not a big loss

[defacto]

Not sure

The same could be said for AL.... With a lot more intell and we used a FRDP

What if he didn't fall to bits... What if he did a 'Darling'

For them.... Worth the risk... They didn't take him at 40 he was gone at their next pick? It was a calculated risk, they would have went in with eyes open.
50K over one years and a rookie upgrade? Not a big loss

darling had no where near the issues of garlet

we'll have to agree to disagree

[plugger66]

savage was poor for us last week, Longer played in our seconds and Ben played a really good game. Longer will not have anywhere near the impact ben will this year and savage is a run of the mill mid.

Ben played a really good game,really?

Longer will not have anywhere near the impact of Ben this year, really?

Savage is a run of the mill mid, maybe!

I reckon you've probably got all those points wrong. Interesting to see what you have to say in six months!

It will be but unlike you I wont mention if I was right and wont care if I am wrong. I dont have to wait 6 months to say I thought Ben played a really good game. Surely even you will say that is wrong but can you. Round one Im in front. Hopefully by round 22 Im wrong.

[plugger66]

Not poor at all... By any club IMO

He was a risk... Like any pick 40... The lower you go, the less likely you are to cut it... I reckon 40 was a touch high, but as pointed out Hawthorn are in a good position

A pick 40 not making it... Butt kicked? No

I'll be honest
Brodie Murdoch, where was he picked up? If he doesn't cut it... Butt kicked?

Different story when top 20 picks are failing?

the difference here though is if someone tells you this kid has issues and he's a 95% chance of not seeing the 2 years out without something seriously going wrong, would you still waste pick 38 on him given the certainty?

of course not. would you risk a rookie pick, yeah maybe....

Even then he wasnt worth the pick because it would be a bad look for a club who hasnt even bottomed out yet. We and any other bottom club would get publicity if the same thing happebed to us and then Lovett would be brought up as another player we got without playing a game.

[BigMart]

Read your post?

Interesting how the club would be blamed for giving a kid a chance

I think the empathy here is for Hawthorn.... Nearly everyone I spoke to, said good on them? And worth a shot.

He is a risk like any other kid.... There is statistics available on draftee success rate, surprising how many never eek out a career beyond a few years, and how many fail?

Although his issues were not ability like most, but attitudinal.... Late picks are still a bit of a lottery?

Personally I would not have selected him with OUR picks because pick 41 was far better utilised securing Longer... But a late draft pick, yeah, why not.... Few would have begrudged our effort in trying to find elite talent?! Even at a risk.

Hawthorn took a positive risk, and got caught out?

[bergholt]

Few would have begrudged our effort in trying to find elite talent?! Even at a risk.

Hawthorn took a positive risk, and got caught out?

You begrudge our effort in trying to find elite talent with Lovett. We took a positive risk and got caught out. You still haven't explained the difference.