best ruckman since spider?

[BigMart]

Lazar, better than spider? Really?

Spider was a decorated near 300 game player....

Lazar was only a fringe senior player? Played 90 games in 9 years...

Spider was talented, and unlike most ruckmen, he would have played AFL I'd he was 6'
Lazar (and many) ruckmen play league footy because very few are 6'6".... If he had the same talent and skill at 6' he would have been a local footy player imo

[ROLS-LEE]

Lazar, better than spider? Really?

Spider was a decorated near 300 game player....

Lazar was only a fringe senior player? Played 90 games in 9 years...

Spider was talented, and unlike most ruckmen, he would have played AFL I'd he was 6'
Lazar (and many) ruckmen play league footy because very few are 6'6".... If he had the same talent and skill at 6' he would have been a local footy player imo

Spider had more talent than all of them, very dangerous forward. As a ruckmen though I thought Lazar was more significant. Both going down in 97, lost us the GF.

As mentioned in previous post, I was a kid at the time watching this era of football and can be wrong. Just my perception.

Also Lazar was 200cm

Everitt was 203cm

[Sainter93]

Gardy, followed closely by Big Ben

[skeptic]

this thread probably reflects how bad we've been in this area since Spider left

Gardiner was overall serviceable with a patch of good form over 09

King was serviceable

McEvoy was never much chop in the ruck but was good around the ground sometimes

Kosi was a real mixed bag... did a lot of really good freakish things but was the most inconsistent

None of them remotely a grade

[Griggsy]

Gardiner in a no contest, then King. Tap work far superior than Bens. Hit the mids much more often and a lot of McEvoys even last year seemed to go nowhere near our players and some straight to opposition.

[oh when the]

PS. Spider currently does breakfast radio on the Gold Coast.

[saintspremiers]

BM it's not just the stats it's the impact a ruckman has on their teammates and opponents.

I doubt Macca caused much concern for our opposition like Gardy did.

Gardy's possies were more telling.

Macca has gone. Move on.

[samuraisaint]

I hope Longer and Hickey become a devastating ruck combination. Could be a West Coast - St Kilda Grand final 2020.

[matrix]

Well......it's the big show

Paul Wight?

geez a lou i dont think he'll get off the ground K





yeah gardiner
looks like bm has plugger disease

no way is mcevoy a better RUCKMAN than gards
around the ground sure thing, but not a better ruckman

[SainterK]

Tom Hickey will be

[spert]

Gards in his prime was a game turning big man, yet still played some top games for us in his late career and could use his size to advantage much better than McEvoy who tries hard, but is a GOP. Spider was never a top ruckman, but was a tall with footy smarts who could fill the role.

[FQF]

When Gardiner was fit and firing Ben could not even come close.

[CURLY]

Gards in his prime was a game turning big man, yet still played some top games for us in his late career and could use his size to advantage much better than McEvoy who tries hard, but is a GOP. Spider was never a top ruckman, but was a tall with footy smarts who could fill the role.

Spider's tap work was very very good nice soft hands.

[mr six o'clock]

Gardiner was cleraly the best !
when he could get on the park
in six seasons he only played 52 games for us
Most of them were in 09 and 10 !

Another great player we had who you look back on and think , If only he was fit and able to play every game .

[gringo]

Gardy by a mile. If he had been able to keep his body together we would have ben even better. Ben was a guy with potential who never quite met the potential. I think Hickey looks a star in the making, Longer is more than average with massive upside and even Pierce looks good. Don't forget we have the big Holmes coming too. He has impressed so far and could do a Mike Pike.

[SaintPav]

You're all wrong.

At only 189 cm

cm for cm, it's a no contest.



Just ask this man.



189 cm

Vs

211 cm

Anyone remember the game in Launceston?

Beat him in the centre square hit outs on more than one ocassion. Maybe three times...

Played some other great games in the ruck as well such as a win againts the hawks in 2008 and the drawn GF.

Not a bad effort.

[stinger]

Gardiner by the length of the Flemington straight.

+1

[Cairnsman]

Gardiner for mine...just added some excitement to watching the Saints that I can't explain...maybe can't get his round 14 antics in 2009 out of my memory banks.

Best ruck combo we ever had was Gardy and King...

[Sainternist]

Michael Gardiner without question. Our club threw him a career lifeline and he responded in remarkable fashion.

That PF in 2010. Shame what happened a week later. One could ponder over whether we would have ended up winning that GF. But it almost seemed that with the team losing the ruckman another coaching strategy was implemented that worked.

Will never forget his birthday match winning mark and goal in 2009 against Geelong. McEvoy can't exactly boast of career highlights quite like that one.

[BigMart]

Why isn't it about stats? Why were his possessions more telling... Ben floated back and took big contested catches? These IMO is the MOST critical thing a Ruckman can do? Ben is better than GOP as much as we'd like to think? He is B Grade and going to be very important for Hawthorn... Deny that, and you're delusional... Like those who argue Ball, Goddard and Dal wouldn't offer much? Proved otherwise....

When in the midfield, the only time there is an advantage, is if your Ruckman is absolutely dominant? even then, opponents can just lock down and create a contested situation?

Gardy was rarely dominant when at stk..... I reckon 3/4 games .....He was at times dominant at WCE .....

Oh, and the centre square ..... It is after all the one stat that has no correlation with team success?

Gary played SOME very good footy at StK.... But generally was on one leg and proppy....

[BigMart]

Whilst none as big as Gardys game against Geel......Are we sure Ben had no big games?

Just looked up his games history.... I have spotted at least ten huge games as a Ruckman? He took 4 or more contested marks a few times.

He also returned 25+ hit outs regularly?.... If we rate them.... And he tackled?!
Not sure why he is not rated by Saints fans and rated highly by AFL fans

[Sainternist]

Whilst none as big as Gardys game against Geel......Are we sure Ben had no big games?

Just looked up his games history.... I have spotted at least ten huge games as a Ruckman? He took 4 or more contested marks a few times.

He also returned 25+ hit outs regularly?.... If we rate them.... And he tackled?!
Not sure why he is not rated by Saints fans and rated highly by AFL fans

Michael Gardiner helped in almost getting us two flags. Unfortunately for Mac, he got his spot as a starting ruckman after our window closed, so he won't be remembered as fondly by fans.

Anyway, it's all moot now since he's no longer playing with us.

[BigMart]

Spider was an awesome Ruckman.... Perhaps one of the few ruckmen clever enough to tap the ball to advantage often.... He was not a liability around the ground

He was AA in 1999 and B&F in 2001.... Went to Hawthorn and was even better as a ruckman

[BigMart]

Gardiner did?

Hayes, Riewoldt, Goddard, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert, Dal Santo, Milne, Blake, Gram ...... We had some good players in 09/10

I can't quite remember where Gardy finished in the B&F but I reckon others were more significant!

He is seriously overrated, his output on raw data suggest as much .... That being said, he was handy... Occasionally excellent

[Bernard Shakey]

Whilst none as big as Gardys game against Geel......Are we sure Ben had no big games?

Just looked up his games history.... I have spotted at least ten huge games as a Ruckman? He took 4 or more contested marks a few times.

He also returned 25+ hit outs regularly?.... If we rate them.... And he tackled?!
Not sure why he is not rated by Saints fans and rated highly by AFL fans

25 hitouts, 2 to advantage.

You can make stats say whatever you want them to.

Michael Gardiner was a bloody good ruckman no matter what the stats say.
Ben is a good footballer, but a very ordinary ruckman.