Richard Colless re Ross Lyon

[WinnersOnly]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-03/col ... es-a-swipe

Seems Colless suggests the Saints stuffed up their contract negotiation with Lyon is the reason he really left! The Saints did offer him a 3 year deal but with an out clause after 6 months which was the reason he left, not for money which they would have us believe. What a cluster of a football club we follow...The best football coach the club had had in 50 years and the Saints management let him go.

Lyon had a strong personality and had influenced some recruiting errors but the management let him do that they didnt attempt to conciliate with the bloke.

[stinger]

whoa there mate.......that's the original contract he's talking about...gave both parties an out.....lynin left for the money knowing he had missed his chance and stuffed up our list for years to come...hence his "end of an era comment"....that sydney dropkick just wants to paint everybody else in a bad light...don't get sucked in....

[Junior]

Reckon Lyon left for two reasons.

One was money the second that he is a career coach and realised that our playing list had run its race.

Reckon he will do the same to Freo if they start declining, he is it not only a great coach but shrewd.

Whilst I would have preferred not to have had the clause in his contract, it is not uncommon in senior positions in organizations to have them. But rare in football I would have thought.

[Junior]

Got to love Colless he sticks up for what he believes in but most clubs stuff up decisions somewhere along the line,some more than others. But to have a fair discussion about any club I would think that there is a bit more than a few decisions that need to be discussed.

Some clubs will always be on the back foot due to historical disadvantages, stadium deals etc.

As good as Lyon was we were declining when he was at the club and I saw nothing to suggest that he was going to turn it around.

I note he mentions losing Rocca, Grant and Gasper and say sit is karma getting Tippett and Franklin. He seems to conveniently forget their poaching over the years of Healy, Williams, Bolton, Lockett, O'Brien amongst others. maybe it was karma losing Rocca etc, although my memory suggests that they did okay with Schwass through the Grant deal.

As for St Kilda in m many years following the club the oars has probably made more mistakes than many other clubs.

[Cairnsman]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-03/col ... es-a-swipe

Seems Colless suggests the Saints stuffed up their contract negotiation with Lyon is the reason he really left! The Saints did offer him a 3 year deal but with an out clause after 6 months which was the reason he left, not for money which they would have us believe. What a cluster of a football club we follow...The best football coach the club had had in 50 years and the Saints management let him go.

Lyon had a strong personality and had influenced some recruiting errors but the management let him do that they didnt attempt to conciliate with the bloke.

People with an agenda may choose to pick pick out that one specific aspect of the Lyon departure that Lyon himself also used to justify his reason for leaving however it completely leaves out other reasons that Lyon had for making the decision to leave which included family reasons and also the fact that Freo head hunted RL with a very attractive offer. It also leaves out the fact that RL is a self proclaimed career coach and that he stated the Saints team he had coached had come to the end of an era.

I think it is incorrect to suggest that the "out clause" was the reason he left, it wasn't the reason he left, it was the thing that allowed him to leave...big difference.

[mullet]

Gee with all thats going on, he chooses to comment on something from 3 years ago.

Did he have an opinion on the club that injects young men with substances not fit for human consumption.

Ross Lyon is a fantastic coach, however, his game plan has not yet achieved a premiership.

[fingers]

Easy. Money was too good.

[ctqs]

whoa there mate.......that's the original contract he's talking about...gave both parties an out.....lynin left for the money knowing he had missed his chance and stuffed up our list for years to come...hence his "end of an era comment"....that sydney dropkick just wants to paint everybody else in a bad light...don't get sucked in....

Spot on, mate! Colless' line was wrong, tiresome, boring, and breath-taking in its hypocrisy. How can a bloke who ran a team that was given every support possible from league HQ have a go at the way our club was run. Let's compare the subsidies, hand-outs, concessions, and graft that each club received. I didn't see us in the position where we could select and then pay top dollars for the best players from other clubs, when the backside was hanging out of our pants.

Me thinks Colless is just trying pick fights with people down here so he can beat the drums in Sydney to get the locals interested, Or maybe he's just a clown.

[plugger66]

I suppose the question is have we stuffed up in the last few years. It seems the answer is yes so he is only talking the truth. Many many on here say it so I dont get the issue. Maybe he has picked the wrong issue we stuffed up on though. Having said that SW wasnt the answer we hoped for. Hopefully AR is otherwise losing RL looks worse than I thought at the time.

[ctqs]

I can't see how it can be said the Saints stuffed up when we were the ones conned by Lyon. He had 18 months to run on his contract when he asked for an extension. The team needed changes and he was sitting on his hands. The club was well within its rights to see what he was going to do and if it was going to work. He did the dirty on us in a particularly nasty way. How on earth can we be blamed for that?

[The Saintsational Man]

.....what was he given $6,000,000 over 5 years? $5,000,000 over 6 years?

What ever it was, the offer was way too good to pass up, I would've left as well.

[plugger66]

I can't see how it can be said the Saints stuffed up when we were the ones conned by Lyon. He had 18 months to run on his contract when he asked for an extension. The team needed changes and he was sitting on his hands. The club was well within its rights to see what he was going to do and if it was going to work. He did the dirty on us in a particularly nasty way. How on earth can we be blamed for that?

Because we had some stupid out clause.

[stinger]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-03-03/col ... es-a-swipe

Seems Colless suggests the Saints stuffed up their contract negotiation with Lyon is the reason he really left! The Saints did offer him a 3 year deal but with an out clause after 6 months which was the reason he left, not for money which they would have us believe. What a cluster of a football club we follow...The best football coach the club had had in 50 years and the Saints management let him go.

Lyon had a strong personality and had influenced some recruiting errors but the management let him do that they didnt attempt to conciliate with the bloke.

People with an agenda may choose to pick pick out that one specific aspect of the Lyon departure that Lyon himself also used to justify his reason for leaving however it completely leaves out other reasons that Lyon had for making the decision to leave which included family reasons and also the fact that Freo head hunted RL with a very attractive offer. It also leaves out the fact that RL is a self proclaimed career coach and that he stated the Saints team he had coached had come to the end of an era.

I think it is incorrect to suggest that the "out clause" was the reason he left, it wasn't the reason he left, it was the thing that allowed him to leave...big difference.

spot on mate...spot on

[Sobraz]

Gee with all thats going on, he chooses to comment on something from 3 years ago.

Did he have an opinion on the club that injects young men with substances not fit for human consumption.

Ross Lyon is a fantastic coach, however, his game plan has not yet achieved a premiership.

Maybe he's trying to divert attention from the story about his new key forward that has a dubious life style collapsing in convulsions in January for no apparent reason... Wonder what brought that episode on??

Nothing to see here... But gee look at those shambolic Saints..

And as for Lyon not leaving for money, I'm sure he was thoroughly enjoying living in his in-laws basement at the time of contract negotiations..

[evertonfc]

The simple fact is that we went in thinking we had all the negotiating power.

Most clubs do - and the club was right in thinking they could hold the coach to an accountable contract. We'd finish 6th, dropped our finals bundle, looked tired and ready to embrace a rebuild. Seemingly, the club had a little bit more bargaining power after that "fall" of 2011.

But Fremantle did a savage thing, one nobody saw coming. Not least Mark Harvey - not even Ross Lyon. Their decisiveness in making one of the most brutal axings in AFL history - and swift appointments - caught everyone by surprise. It was an extraordinary act of brinkmanship; impossible to predict from the outside.

Hell, not even Lyon's agent knew.

I understand Colless's point - we dallied on the matter. But I can't say I wouldn't have done the same. We looked $1.01 to keep him, yet there were signs not all was perfect with his leadership at the time, and the board was looking for some mutual assurances. It made sense given our mentality at the time, knowing we were potentially on the slide.

We can look back with regret now, but he wasn't necessarily the perfect coach at the time given the state of our list and where we were at. Who knows if he'd have embraced the pain of a full rebuild.

Our club administration has bounced between diabolical and disastrous in the past five years, but I wouldn't be so quick to hang them on this one. Fremantle's brilliant-but-brutal plan was a masterstroke that came at the right time in their evolution.

[Cairnsman]

I can't see how it can be said the Saints stuffed up when we were the ones conned by Lyon. He had 18 months to run on his contract when he asked for an extension. The team needed changes and he was sitting on his hands. The club was well within its rights to see what he was going to do and if it was going to work. He did the dirty on us in a particularly nasty way. How on earth can we be blamed for that?

Because we had some stupid out clause.

I wonder though if that out clause hadn't been in the contract if it would have only just prolonged the inevitable and him leaving anyway. RL himself said that one of the decisions to leave was that he was hungry for a premiership and he was clearly on the record as saying the Saints team had come to the end of an era so if all of that is true then one can only conclude that he would have left anyway because clearly he was right with regards to the end of an era claim.

[Solar]

Not sure how a coaching situation has anything to do with the cola.

COLA has been abused lately to poach players and will get worse as free agency bites. Either it is added on to every players contract after fitting them into the normal salary cap or abolished. Simple.

[SinCitySainter]

Not sure how a coaching situation has anything to do with the cola.

COLA has been abused lately to poach players and will get worse as free agency bites. Either it is added on to every players contract after fitting them into the normal salary cap or abolished. Simple.

It is no good adding it after fitting them in the salary cap because that does not change anything.
They still say to an average player "at most clubs you will get $200 K he are only going to give you $182 K but you get the rest from the COLA ." So hey presto 18 K saved for the big fish.
Do that across the board and you have your extra mill to play with.
It must be abolished.

[dragit]

Not sure how a coaching situation has anything to do with the cola.

COLA has been abused lately to poach players and will get worse as free agency bites. Either it is added on to every players contract after fitting them into the normal salary cap or abolished. Simple.

It is no good adding it after fitting them in the salary cap because that does not change anything.
They still say to an average player "at most clubs you will get $200 K he are only going to give you $182 K but you get the rest from the COLA ." So hey presto 18 K saved for the big fish.
Do that across the board and you have your extra mill to play with.
It must be abolished.

Or award COLA only to players earning less than $150,000, they're the only ones who could possibly find it hard to get by which I doubt any of them do.

[LENNY LEADS THE WAY]

We seem to be having trouble retaining quality over the past 5 years. Lyon, Ball, Goddard, Dal, Big Boy, for 1 reason or another we have lost our ability to retain our quality people.

1 thing I loved about the Grant Thomas era was every player was in it together and their was a real sense of team and commitment.

Bring on the next generation an please regain that team unity where stars don't leave. (may never happen again due to free agency)

[The OtherThommo]

Gee with all thats going on, he chooses to comment on something from 3 years ago.

Did he have an opinion on the club that injects young men with substances not fit for human consumption.

Ross Lyon is a fantastic coach, however, his game plan has not yet achieved a premiership.

Maybe he's trying to divert attention from the story about his new key forward that has a dubious life style collapsing in convulsions in January for no apparent reason... Wonder what brought that episode on??

Nothing to see here... But gee look at those shambolic Saints..

And as for Lyon not leaving for money, I'm sure he was thoroughly enjoying living in his in-laws basement at the time of contract negotiations..

And, therein lies the truth. Lost an awful lot of dosh during and post GFC, did the man who studied economics and politics. Went the heavy leverage route, including vastly overweight into a "speccy" (not the mark type of speccy). Networked among the Sydney business crowd and got fried.

As much as he would like it to go away, the clincher was Freo's ability and willingness to extraordinarily front end his coaching contract.

And, sobraz is right - he was living with the in-laws. A number of houses in the family's portfolio had gone the way of fire sale.

[The OtherThommo]

P.S. And Colless has always been a dissembler and distractor. That's his skill.

[whiskers3614]

Getting back to Lyon, can anybody tell me what is the record for consecutive finals series contested without a flag?

[plugger66]

Getting back to Lyon, can anybody tell me what is the record for consecutive finals series contested without a flag?

No idea but its great fun watching your team being good enough to make the finals.

[Scollop]

Is Buddy a Coca Cola user?