crazy trading

[stinger]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/d ... 32r68.html


"And the Hawks have Ben McEvoy. If I were a St Kilda fan, I would be calling for a royal commission into how McEvoy parted company with the Saints. One of the oldest sayings in the game is "a good big man will always beat a good little man", and McEvoy is a good big man. Not only that, when asked on Wednesday who might succeed him as captain of Hawthorn, Luke Hodge put up McEvoy as a possible candidate. And he hasn't even played a senior game with the club!"


...i suppose we will have to wait and see.....


i was always critical of the saints for overlooking rioli and going for big boy...now they have both....

[mick13]

But is a decent big man worth two possibly better than decent small men?

Actually it's likely we would have got neither of Acres or Dunstan if we remained with only Pick 24. And Savage too.

All three of those players become regular best 22 players? We'll have done incredibly well. Of course we probably won't know how well this trade has gone for a number of years.

[WinnersOnly]

And the good big man was replaced cheaply with Billy LONGER coming on board with more potential to be A grade than McEvoy. On the other side of the argument after the hawthorn game I could see why we went around Bill Hartung the kid looks all attitude...

[plugger66]

And the good big man was replaced cheaply with Billy LONGER coming on board with more potential to be A grade than McEvoy. On the other side of the argument after the hawthorn game I could see why we went around Bill Hartung the kid looks all attitude...

Well at least you waited till one practice match. Anyway ben is a huge loss. Whether we win in the end will decided by how Longer and Hickey work togerther and how Savage goes.

[stinger]

But is a decent big man worth two possibly better than decent small men?

Actually it's likely we would have got neither of Acres or Dunstan if we remained with only Pick 24. And Savage too.

All three of those players become regular best 22 players? We'll have done incredibly well. Of course we probably won't know how well this trade has gone for a number of years.

big boy will be a better player now than he ever was ...or ever wwould have been ..playing with the hawks simply because they are a far better side......

[plugger66]

But is a decent big man worth two possibly better than decent small men?

Actually it's likely we would have got neither of Acres or Dunstan if we remained with only Pick 24. And Savage too.

All three of those players become regular best 22 players? We'll have done incredibly well. Of course we probably won't know how well this trade has gone for a number of years.

big boy will be a better player now than he ever was ...or ever wwould have been ..playing with the hawks simply because they are a far better side......

I dont think that matters with ruckmen. They alway have to get their own ball.

[spert]

I considered Ben to actually be one of our weaknesses- he could take a few grabs here and there, but is slow couldn't stamp himself in the game in ruckwork- those deficiencies might be compensated for in a top team, yet whether he can get a regular gig in the Hawks lineup is still a question. Not totally surprised he was traded.

[gringo]

But is a decent big man worth two possibly better than decent small men?

Actually it's likely we would have got neither of Acres or Dunstan if we remained with only Pick 24. And Savage too.

All three of those players become regular best 22 players? We'll have done incredibly well. Of course we probably won't know how well this trade has gone for a number of years.

big boy will be a better player now than he ever was ...or ever wwould have been ..playing with the hawks simply because they are a far better side......

I dont think that matters with ruckmen. They alway have to get their own ball.

I agree, the mids might read the ruck better and make him look better but I'm not sure he will actually be better. He was beaten for hit outs against Trent West. That's not a great ruckman but the Hawks mids can get it regardless. I actually think we have 2 potential a grade rucks and a couple of handy back ups now and the bonus of loading up on young mids.

The Hawks should be able to use Macs resilience but I'm not sure if he will improve by the team he's in. If he improves it's new motivation or just maturity.

[Spinner]

But is a decent big man worth two possibly better than decent small men?

Actually it's likely we would have got neither of Acres or Dunstan if we remained with only Pick 24. And Savage too.

All three of those players become regular best 22 players? We'll have done incredibly well. Of course we probably won't know how well this trade has gone for a number of years.

Yeah... Granted us access to an extra and one earlier pick - as well as Savage.

All we need is one of those to become a star - and it's a win! Only....

[BringBackMadDog]

And the good big man was replaced cheaply with Billy LONGER coming on board with more potential to be A grade than McEvoy. On the other side of the argument after the hawthorn game I could see why we went around Bill Hartung the kid looks all attitude...

Well at least you waited till one practice match. Anyway ben is a huge loss. Whether we win in the end will decided by how Longer and Hickey work togerther and how Savage goes.

Not sure he will be a huge loss. He was in the bottom 3 ruckmen in the league for hitouts and hit outs to advantage, he wasn't a goal kicker so wasn't effective as a forward. He was a good defensive mark but we need more from our ruck man than that

[plugger66]

And the good big man was replaced cheaply with Billy LONGER coming on board with more potential to be A grade than McEvoy. On the other side of the argument after the hawthorn game I could see why we went around Bill Hartung the kid looks all attitude...

Well at least you waited till one practice match. Anyway ben is a huge loss. Whether we win in the end will decided by how Longer and Hickey work togerther and how Savage goes.

Not sure he will be a huge loss. He was in the bottom 3 ruckmen in the league for hitouts and hit outs to advantage, he wasn't a goal kicker so wasn't effective as a forward. He was a good defensive mark but we need more from our ruck man than that

Hit outs mean jack. Hit outs to advantage mean a little more but not much based on where sides finished on the ladder. No he wasnt a goal kicker because our backline was under so much pressure he was forced to play nearly always a kick behind the play. I trust many who know a hell of a lot more than me who say he was a very good player.

[defacto]

i actually think the mcevoy trade will go down as one of the best things we have done. without the mcevoy trade we would not have got the longer deal done and probably would have had to pay a bit more for one of bruce, delaney. heres how the two trades worked:
Trade 1
Ben McEvoy, Pick 24, Pick 59 for Shane Savage, Pick 18, Pick 19

Pick 24 was Bill Hartung with potentials:
25 : Daniel McStay
26 : Zach Merrett
27 : Sean Lemmens
28 : Lewis Taylor
29 : Rory Lobb
30 : Trent Dumont

Pick 59 was a rookie upgrade, potentials:
60 : Mitch Honeychurch
62 : Jonothan Freeman
65 : Tom Langdon
66 : Sam Lloyd

Pick 18/19 we selected Luke Dunstan and Blake Acres, other options available:
20 : Jack Leslie
21 : Jarman Impey
22 : Darcy Gardiner
23 : Matt Crouch


Trade 2
Nick Dal Santo (Pick 25 Compo), Pick 41, Pick 48, Pick 77 for Billy Longer, Josh Bruce, Luke Delaney

Pick 25 was Daniel McStay with potentials:
26 : Zach Merrett
27 : Sean Lemmens
28 : Lewis Taylor
29 : Rory Lobb
30 : Trent Dumont

Pick 41 was Jake Kolodjashnij with potentials:
42 : Matt Fuller
43 : Tom Barrass
44 : Aliir Aliir
45 : Mitchell Harvey
46 : Riley Knight
47 : Ben Brown

Pick 48 was not used with potentials:
49 : Dylan Main
50 : Nathan Gordon
51 : Nick Holman
52 : Darcy Byrne-Jones

Pick 77 was the 2nd last Pick used and got Jonathan Marsh, other potential:
97 : Jake Barrett

[Beekay]

Ben's game against Carlton early in last season was IMMENSE. I was excited.

Didn't really see it again. Hope he wins a flag with the Hawks (especially if it means Cats, Pies, Freo miss out).

Let's see how things play out. I'm very comfortable with our trading, yet somewhat sad considering Ben loved the Saints as much as any of us.

No time for sentiment and holding hands though.

[Rocket]

Great journalism...NOT! McEvoy rucked against his own shadow. Let's wait and see how he goes against quality opposition before calling for a royal commission. As per previous post; he was ranked bottom 3 in centre clearances and tap outs to advantage. He can play not saying he can't but he is not in the top 10 best rucks in the competition.

[saintspremiers]

Reality is that Ben was crap last year and maybe he's a front runner Ruckman. Will be a great asset to a top side and a different player. Well love the support of Roughy when resting up forward

[kosifantutti]

. I trust many who know a hell of a lot more than me who say he was a very good player.

Stinger?

[longtimesaint]

He would want to dominate against the Brisbane Lions schoolboys the other night

[Darth Vader]

And the good big man was replaced cheaply with Billy LONGER coming on board with more potential to be A grade than McEvoy. On the other side of the argument after the hawthorn game I could see why we went around Bill Hartung the kid looks all attitude...

Well at least you waited till one practice match. Anyway ben is a huge loss. Whether we win in the end will decided by how Longer and Hickey work togerther and how Savage goes.

Not sure he will be a huge loss. He was in the bottom 3 ruckmen in the league for hitouts and hit outs to advantage, he wasn't a goal kicker so wasn't effective as a forward. He was a good defensive mark but we need more from our ruck man than that

Agree with this. Have always felt that non-Saints supporters rate him higher than Saints supporters do as they see the obvious stuff (good overhead with the big defensive marks) but miss the lack of impact in most other areas. We started at a disadvantage at every centre clearance as he was unable to win a tap-out. The trade makes sense - we're rebuilding so we're not going to be good during his prime remaining years, he was one of the few that had reasonable trade value, Longer or Hickey should be in their prime when we start getting good again. The next 2-3 years are irrelevant.

[Sobraz]

Hawthorn are the best traders in the comp, and have done it again.. It is why they are going hard for another flag this year, and will probably win a couple more in the next 5...

Mac is an out and out gun ruckman, who will hit his prime in the next 5 years, as all good ruckman do.. He will be immense for Hawthorn, potentially a premiership captain..

We can sleep well at night however looking at his hit out stats however... they should keep us Saints supporters comfortable... Let's overlook the best marking ruckman in the game for hit out stats that are completely irrelevant..

[LTN16]

And the good big man was replaced cheaply with Billy LONGER coming on board with more potential to be A grade than McEvoy. On the other side of the argument after the hawthorn game I could see why we went around Bill Hartung the kid looks all attitude...

Well at least you waited till one practice match. Anyway ben is a huge loss. Whether we win in the end will decided by how Longer and Hickey work togerther and how Savage goes.

Not sure he will be a huge loss. He was in the bottom 3 ruckmen in the league for hitouts and hit outs to advantage, he wasn't a goal kicker so wasn't effective as a forward. He was a good defensive mark but we need more from our ruck man than that

Yes I agree too!!

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he gets dropped at some stage this year as the hawks look to go for a more mobile quick side..

[magnifisaint]

Mac is an out and out gun ruckman, who will hit his prime in the next 5 years, as all good ruckman do.. He will be immense for Hawthorn, potentially a premiership captain..

pfft...biggest load of crap I've ever read. Not a patch on Gardiner or King even when he was at the Saints.

Not within cooee.

[magnifisaint]

the test is how he goes against Sandilands, Goldstein, Mumford and Minson. What stupid short sighted jounalism. Some of these guys have no **** idea!

[SaintPav]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/d ... 32r68.html


"And the Hawks have Ben McEvoy. If I were a St Kilda fan, I would be calling for a royal commission into how McEvoy parted company with the Saints. One of the oldest sayings in the game is "a good big man will always beat a good little man", and McEvoy is a good big man. Not only that, when asked on Wednesday who might succeed him as captain of Hawthorn, Luke Hodge put up McEvoy as a possible candidate. And he hasn't even played a senior game with the club!"


...i suppose we will have to wait and see.....


i was always critical of the saints for overlooking rioli and going for big boy...now they have both....

Flanagan analysis is simplistic and he failed to provide all the facts but readers are not interested in too much information or the truth it seems.

[Dave McNamara]

Some good points raised, but also some others overlooked.

- Tap outs mean little... unless they are being fed down the throat of a mid who is in the clear... last year Ben was allowing some no-name ruckmen to do this. That's when it hurts!

- After his fantastic first game against Carlton, for reasons unknown Ben went downhill, including no longer taking those trademark grabs around the game. For anyone who doubts, if you're bored one day, check our 2013 replays.

- Maybe he'll be bulked up at the skid marks (definitely would be if he'd gone to the Dopers ) and that'll help him win some taps...? If so, will that then adversely affect his stamina around the ground?

- I'm rapt with the list of blokes that we got for Ben. Even if not one of them makes it (which will not be the case) I'd still do the deal based on the potential upside. In fact, I couldn't believe what we got for Ben! By next draft time, I reckon we'll all see that we wouldn't still be able to do such a deal.

- And if Ben does manage to improve, well, as stated above, such was unlikely to happen if he stayed with us... so win/win and good luck to him. Wish he win a premiership medal...? Nuh. I wish that he, BJ, Dal, Bally all get the chance to win each win themselves a Norm Smith... before sitting down on the grass to watch our boys get their premiership medals.

[skeptic]

The thing is regarding the game VS Carlton, how was his second half. Esp the last quarter. He faded when the team faded