Feb 19th - Bulldogs vs StKilda at ... WTF!

[Con Gorozidis]

There is whinging and then there is constructive criticism.

My definition of whingeing is complaining when things are going well.

So if you think everything is great and the Saints are flying and we have no issues - then yes we are just whingers.

Last time I looked (yesterday) we were broke with no cash and no assets and almost the lowest membership in the comp.

But lets face it - we aren't beyond criticism or flying.

[plugger66]

There is whinging and then there is constructive criticism.

My definition of whingeing is complaining when things are going well.

So if you think everything is great and the Saints are flying and we have no issues - then yes we are just whingers.

Last time I looked (yesterday) we were broke with no cash and no assets and almost the lowest membership in the comp.

But lets face it - we aren't beyond criticism or flying.

What the hell has what you said got to do with where we are playing practice matches. The way you are talking you would think our club decided to play the games where they are. What you are doing is whinging because you just said is totally irrelevant to the topic.

[70s sainter]

I doubt they will even get 8000 down in Geelong . I imagine about 1000 saints fans , 2000 dogs and 1000 curious locals. There must be more to this . Clearly no benefit to saints or dogs . The afl must owe a game down there for some reason and what two teams can they easily screw over? The dogs and saints of course.

[Con Gorozidis]

What the hell has what you said got to do with where we are playing practice matches. The way you are talking you would think our club decided to play the games where they are. What you are doing is whinging because you just said is totally irrelevant to the topic.

No I'm sick of it. Its a little thing but the little things keep adding up against the Saints.
I'm sick of us being 2nd class citizens. Everyone says oh this doesn't matter and that doesn't matter - but they all add up.
We get s*** deal at Etihad. No home nab cups. We get screwed on jumpers. This and that and this and that. Its all these little things that just keep adding up and keep separating the rich from the poor. AFL apologists like you just keep saying oh this doesn't matter and that doesn't matter and stop whinging.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again - we need a strong advocate or we need to join a lobby group with other small clubs. We are always getting the s*** stick of any deal. We need people to fight for us - not just cop it up the ass meekly from headquarters on every little thing (which you seem to quite enjoy).

[Buckets]

Seriously?

I, like many others on this forum, can remember back to the late 70s early 80s when there was a real chance our club may have ceased to exist.

Or it may have been relocated to another state like South Melbourne and Fitzroy.

And here are some people worried about where a NAB Challenge game is being played. Unbelievable

By the way, the second one’s in Wagga and that’s a real long way away.

The point is that these games are on Foxtel, and if you don’t have Foxtel you can always go to a mate’s place or down the local pub where no doubt the game will be shown.

And yes dragit (and others), I do live in Geelong these days, but it honestly wouldn’t worry me where these games were played.

I’m just glad we still have a Melbourne based team to follow.

Not for me Looking forward to the short drive to Wagga to see my Saints play!

[saintdooley]

Might sound a little silly but even Sorrento would of been a better option (for our sake not bulldogs)
Not too far from Franga, would get a full house down there (where as we'll get 8k into simmonds and leave 30k seats empty)

Sorrento? The footy ground doesn't have any seats around it. A full house would be about 2000.

I've never been for a full house but thought it could hold more than that, if that's the case fair enough.

[gringo]

What the hell has what you said got to do with where we are playing practice matches. The way you are talking you would think our club decided to play the games where they are. What you are doing is whinging because you just said is totally irrelevant to the topic.

No I'm sick of it. Its a little thing but the little things keep adding up against the Saints.
I'm sick of us being 2nd class citizens. Everyone says oh this doesn't matter and that doesn't matter - but they all add up.
We get s*** deal at Etihad. No home nab cups. We get screwed on jumpers. This and that and this and that. Its all these little things that just keep adding up and keep separating the rich from the poor. AFL apologists like you just keep saying oh this doesn't matter and that doesn't matter and stop whinging.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again - we need a strong advocate or we need to join a lobby group with other small clubs. We are always getting the s*** stick of any deal. We need people to fight for us - not just cop it up the ass meekly from headquarters on every little thing (which you seem to quite enjoy).

I agree. David Koch walked in and got apologies about being called ferals. The whole team starts walking taller when head office stands up for them. We need some head kicking leadership. Even Finnis from the AFPA said we need compo or we could just say we will boycott matches until we are given access to a more profitable fixture. We let them send us there from Waverley with our pants down, now we need to stand up.
The AFL paid for Eddie Maguire to go on a junket to the US in the name of equalisation and we get nothing but a dole check and disrespect. The AFL is supposed to look after all teams not a few. We are so scared that they could Fitzroy us we let them do what they want.

[St DAC]

I wouldn't have thought it totally unreasonable for a game between the Saints (home ground - Etihad) & the Bulldogs (home ground - Etihad) to be played at ... Etihad! Especially given our other two games are interstate.

And some of these other NAB games are at Etihad, so it is available.

I'm in Gippsland, and I would have come to Melbourne for a NAB game ... but I'm not going to Geelong for one!

[plugger66]

What the hell has what you said got to do with where we are playing practice matches. The way you are talking you would think our club decided to play the games where they are. What you are doing is whinging because you just said is totally irrelevant to the topic.

No I'm sick of it. Its a little thing but the little things keep adding up against the Saints.
I'm sick of us being 2nd class citizens. Everyone says oh this doesn't matter and that doesn't matter - but they all add up.
We get s*** deal at Etihad. No home nab cups. We get screwed on jumpers. This and that and this and that. Its all these little things that just keep adding up and keep separating the rich from the poor. AFL apologists like you just keep saying oh this doesn't matter and that doesn't matter and stop whinging.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again - we need a strong advocate or we need to join a lobby group with other small clubs. We are always getting the s*** stick of any deal. We need people to fight for us - not just cop it up the ass meekly from headquarters on every little thing (which you seem to quite enjoy).

I agree. David Koch walked in and got apologies about being called ferals. The whole team starts walking taller when head office stands up for them. We need some head kicking leadership. Even Finnis from the AFPA said we need compo or we could just say we will boycott matches until we are given access to a more profitable fixture. We let them send us there from Waverley with our pants down, now we need to stand up.
The AFL paid for Eddie Maguire to go on a junket to the US in the name of equalisation and we get nothing but a dole check and disrespect. The AFL is supposed to look after all teams not a few. We are so scared that they could Fitzroy us we let them do what they want.

If the AFL werent looking after clubs we and a few others maybe wouldnt even exist anymore. Yes the fixture could be even and the big games could be to all clubs but we would still have 30k members and be getting crap crowds because its our turn at the bottom. The bigger clubs have turns at the bottom as well but retain members and get bigger crowds when struggling. You cant honestly tell me people dont join as a member because our fixture doesnt have a big game or isnt even whatever that means when you can only play 5 sides twice. We get nearly 3 million a year because of the poor deal at Etihad. I think we need to get this chip off our shoulder. Lets face it our sponsorship is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our membership is worse than pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our corporate is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our money off pokies is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Fix our own backyard first could help.

[plugger66]

I wouldn't have thought it totally unreasonable for a game between the Saints (home ground - Etihad) & the Bulldogs (home ground - Etihad) to be played at ... Etihad! Especially given our other two games are interstate.

And some of these other NAB games are at Etihad, so it is available.

I'm in Gippsland, and I would have come to Melbourne for a NAB game ... but I'm not going to Geelong for one!

We played Sydney at Etihad last year at 5.10 on a Sunday and got 6k. I reckon WB at 7.10 on a Wednesday would struggle to get that much. Of Geelong will get even less but hardly worth the complaints some are doing. As I said most who are the type who go to these days are more likely to be the type who will join the club anyway so its unlikely we will lose members because the game isnt at Etihad. These games are now truely prectice mtaches so crowds will be smaller than previously IMO of course.

[gringo]

If the AFL werent looking after clubs we and a few others maybe wouldnt even exist anymore. Yes the fixture could be even and the big games could be to all clubs but we would still have 30k members and be getting crap crowds because its our turn at the bottom. The bigger clubs have turns at the bottom as well but retain members and get bigger crowds when struggling. You cant honestly tell me people dont join as a member because our fixture doesnt have a big game or isnt even whatever that means when you can only play 5 sides twice. We get nearly 3 million a year because of the poor deal at Etihad. I think we need to get this chip off our shoulder. Lets face it our sponsorship is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our membership is worse than pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our corporate is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our money off pokies is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Fix our own backyard first could help.

As Anthony Mundine says you're an Uncle Tom. Just letting things be is insane. While we are on handouts and in poor time slots we are doing our image damage. If we want a sponsor that is high profile we need to get an image that portrays upwards and forwards not quietly shrinking off into the background.


Maybe we need to overhaul the teams image into something different. Link with other Saints teams and come out to sportsmans nights etc for them. Rebrand as some fricken gay pirate team for all I care with bandanas and skull and cross bones...anything. We need to do leading teams on the admin. Buy up the best marketing guys available...start a central australian theme on the Winmar stuff and incorporate the yellow dot. Embrace the Miami Heat or something and cross promote that way. Anything we can do to get off the AFL version of the dole.

[plugger66]

If the AFL werent looking after clubs we and a few others maybe wouldnt even exist anymore. Yes the fixture could be even and the big games could be to all clubs but we would still have 30k members and be getting crap crowds because its our turn at the bottom. The bigger clubs have turns at the bottom as well but retain members and get bigger crowds when struggling. You cant honestly tell me people dont join as a member because our fixture doesnt have a big game or isnt even whatever that means when you can only play 5 sides twice. We get nearly 3 million a year because of the poor deal at Etihad. I think we need to get this chip off our shoulder. Lets face it our sponsorship is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our membership is worse than pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our corporate is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Our money off pokies is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault. Fix our own backyard first could help.

As Anthony Mundine says you're an Uncle Tom. Just letting things be is insane. While we are on handouts and in poor time slots we are doing our image damage. If we want a sponsor that is high profile we need to get an image that portrays upwards and forwards not quietly shrinking off into the background.


Maybe we need to overhaul the teams image into something different. Link with other Saints teams and come out to sportsmans nights etc for them. Rebrand as some fricken gay pirate team for all I care with bandanas and skull and cross bones...anything. We need to do leading teams on the admin. Buy up the best marketing guys available...start a central australian theme on the Winmar stuff and incorporate the yellow dot. Embrace the Miami Heat or something and cross promote that way. Anything we can do to get off the AFL version of the dole.

You obviously dont read what is written because usually your responses are what you think is written but not what is actually written and this is perfect example. When did I say I want things to be as they are. I actually said we need to fix up all our errors we have made in the last few years so thats hardly letting things stay as they are but go on about it if you like. And we didnt have poor time slots when we made the GF's and finals yet we still struggled money wise except the year we had the draw because of all the money that brought in. I agree we need to improve as a club but having a practice match at Etihad wont make any difference at all. That would be about the 500th thing that matters.

[saintspremiers]

I wouldn't have thought it totally unreasonable for a game between the Saints (home ground - Etihad) & the Bulldogs (home ground - Etihad) to be played at ... Etihad! Especially given our other two games are interstate.

And some of these other NAB games are at Etihad, so it is available.

I'm in Gippsland, and I would have come to Melbourne for a NAB game ... but I'm not going to Geelong for one!

We played Sydney at Etihad last year at 5.10 on a Sunday and got 6k. I reckon WB at 7.10 on a Wednesday would struggle to get that much. Of Geelong will get even less but hardly worth the complaints some are doing. As I said most who are the type who go to these days are more likely to be the type who will join the club anyway so its unlikely we will lose members because the game isnt at Etihad. These games are now truely prectice mtaches so crowds will be smaller than previously IMO of course.

Are you fair dinkum or an outright apologist plugs?

Every little bit helps. Inch by inch we need everything we can get.

Why are we being bent over and supporting Geelong's ground?

Nah, let's just sit back and be thankful to the Lord Our God Demetriou we still exist and be a good obideient doggy.

[Life Long Saint]

If the AFL werent looking after clubs we and a few others maybe wouldnt even exist anymore.

And neither would the competition. The AFL aren't in the business of cutting off their nose to spite their face. Hell...Even the Harlem Globetrotters needed the Washington Generals.

Yes the fixture could be even and the big games could be to all clubs but we would still have 30k members and be getting crap crowds because its our turn at the bottom. The bigger clubs have turns at the bottom as well but retain members and get bigger crowds when struggling.

It's a load of baloney that teams have their turn at the bottom...Geelong and Sydney haven't had their "turn". Teams that get salary cap advantages or have their own stadiums which allow them have their own reserve's teams don't need to bottom out.

You cant honestly tell me people dont join as a member because our fixture doesnt have a big game or isnt even whatever that means when you can only play 5 sides twice.

Seriously? Fixturing has a lot to with it...If most of our games are Sunday twilight or other times when people can't go then why would they pay for a membership? There'd be a large number of people that would have a footy club membership as a discretionary spending item. Team performance would be a factor but they'd be looking for value for money and games against poor sides would not help that.

We get nearly 3 million a year because of the poor deal at Etihad. I think we need to get this chip off our shoulder.

Do we really? Just because of the poor deal at Etihad? Tthe AFL's discretionary payment to Essendon is $8.4M...and they have a sweet deat. Are we getting screwed again?

Lets face it our sponsorship is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

Isn't it? Why would a company sponsor a team that is hidden away from blockbuster fixtures in prime time?

Our membership is worse than pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

Not entirely the AFL's fault but there is some portion of that they contribute to.

Our corporate is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

What does that even mean? Do you mean our corporate sales of boxes and packages? Is it pathetic? Where are the figures for that?

[plugger66]

I wouldn't have thought it totally unreasonable for a game between the Saints (home ground - Etihad) & the Bulldogs (home ground - Etihad) to be played at ... Etihad! Especially given our other two games are interstate.

And some of these other NAB games are at Etihad, so it is available.

I'm in Gippsland, and I would have come to Melbourne for a NAB game ... but I'm not going to Geelong for one!

We played Sydney at Etihad last year at 5.10 on a Sunday and got 6k. I reckon WB at 7.10 on a Wednesday would struggle to get that much. Of Geelong will get even less but hardly worth the complaints some are doing. As I said most who are the type who go to these days are more likely to be the type who will join the club anyway so its unlikely we will lose members because the game isnt at Etihad. These games are now truely prectice mtaches so crowds will be smaller than previously IMO of course.

Are you fair dinkum or an outright apologist plugs?

Every little bit helps. Inch by inch we need everything we can get.

Why are we being bent over and supporting Geelong's ground?

Nah, let's just sit back and be thankful to the Lord Our God Demetriou we still exist and be a good obideient doggy.

And you just whinge and whinge. How does it help the Geelong footy club playing at their ground? And why would you care? You wont be going based on it being a game late on a school night. Whinge whinge whinge. by the way when was the last CEO you thought did an ok job or do you just whinge. Tell us what advantage we get playing at Etihad? I would 99% of saints people going would be members anyway because lets face it the non member isnt likely to go to a true practice match at 7.10 on a Wednesday night.

Maybe you can twll us how that 6k who turned up last year helped the club?

[Life Long Saint]

We played Sydney at Etihad last year at 5.10 on a Sunday and got 6k. I reckon WB at 7.10 on a Wednesday would struggle to get that much. Of Geelong will get even less but hardly worth the complaints some are doing. As I said most who are the type who go to these days are more likely to be the type who will join the club anyway so its unlikely we will lose members because the game isnt at Etihad. These games are now truely prectice mtaches so crowds will be smaller than previously IMO of course.

When you play it at venues like Etihad or Geelong then it would most likely be members. But if you play it in a regional location then that is not the case.
When Melbourne played St Kilda last season at Casey they got 5000.
Playing this game at Geelong makes absolutely no sense. Visy Park, Etihad or even Whitten Oval would have been a better option...or play it in a regional location that is meaningful to one of the sides.

If they're truly practice matches then let members in for free and charge non members $10...Encourage people to go and provide atmosphere...otherwise these games run the risk of being a U18 carnival type atmosphere with only die hards, family and friends going along.

[plugger66]

If the AFL werent looking after clubs we and a few others maybe wouldnt even exist anymore.

And neither would the competition. The AFL aren't in the business of cutting off their nose to spite their face. Hell...Even the Harlem Globetrotters needed the Washington Generals.

Yes the fixture could be even and the big games could be to all clubs but we would still have 30k members and be getting crap crowds because its our turn at the bottom. The bigger clubs have turns at the bottom as well but retain members and get bigger crowds when struggling.

It's a load of baloney that teams have their turn at the bottom...Geelong and Sydney haven't had their "turn". Teams that get salary cap advantages or have their own stadiums which allow them have their own reserve's teams don't need to bottom out.

You cant honestly tell me people dont join as a member because our fixture doesnt have a big game or isnt even whatever that means when you can only play 5 sides twice.

Seriously? Fixturing has a lot to with it...If most of our games are Sunday twilight or other times when people can't go then why would they pay for a membership? There'd be a large number of people that would have a footy club membership as a discretionary spending item. Team performance would be a factor but they'd be looking for value for money and games against poor sides would not help that.

We get nearly 3 million a year because of the poor deal at Etihad. I think we need to get this chip off our shoulder.

Do we really? Just because of the poor deal at Etihad? Tthe AFL's discretionary payment to Essendon is $8.4M...and they have a sweet deat. Are we getting screwed again?

Lets face it our sponsorship is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

Isn't it? Why would a company sponsor a team that is hidden away from blockbuster fixtures in prime time?

Our membership is worse than pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

Not entirely the AFL's fault but there is some portion of that they contribute to.

Our corporate is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

What does that even mean? Do you mean our corporate sales of boxes and packages? Is it pathetic? Where are the figures for that?

Again nice quoting but pretty poor attemps at answering.

I wont quote because its a wank but I will go through your points.

1. No idea what your first point is apart from agreeing with me.
2. Nice that you pick Sydney and geelong. I think I will pick the pies, hawks, Blues and Essendon.
3. No idea what your point is about twilight games. Suggest you read why I said it makes no difference. By the way we didnt crack 40k once when our fixture was excellent for friday night games and we were on top of the ladder. I still stand by people not giving a stuff about who we play twice when deciding to join. I reckon not one person would look at that.
4. Not sure your right about Essendon. happy to say im wrong if you can show all the totals.
5. Yep the AFL have a very small portion of fault. Our supporters have a huge fault.
5. Yes Im mean our corporate sales and packages is pathetic. Just find the last few financial statements.

So after that im happy to say im wrong if you prove your Essendon point and I give you a fraction of AFL fault ragarding membership but apart from that im not sure the quoting helped.

[plugger66]

We played Sydney at Etihad last year at 5.10 on a Sunday and got 6k. I reckon WB at 7.10 on a Wednesday would struggle to get that much. Of Geelong will get even less but hardly worth the complaints some are doing. As I said most who are the type who go to these days are more likely to be the type who will join the club anyway so its unlikely we will lose members because the game isnt at Etihad. These games are now truely prectice mtaches so crowds will be smaller than previously IMO of course.

When you play it at venues like Etihad or Geelong then it would most likely be members. But if you play it in a regional location then that is not the case.
When Melbourne played St Kilda last season at Casey they got 5000.
Playing this game at Geelong makes absolutely no sense. Visy Park, Etihad or even Whitten Oval would have been a better option...or play it in a regional location that is meaningful to one of the sides.

If they're truly practice matches then let members in for free and charge non members $10...Encourage people to go and provide atmosphere...otherwise these games run the risk of being a U18 carnival type atmosphere with only die hards, family and friends going along.

How are the lights at visy and the whitten oval? And you said members go to Etihad so that wont help. And im all for not charging for members.

[Life Long Saint]

How are the lights at visy and the whitten oval? And you said members go to Etihad so that wont help. And im all for not charging for members.

Don't know about the lights at those venues but I am quite sure that the games can be played on a weekend.
Let me turn this around then...Maybe you can explain why the Bulldogs v St Kilda is the only game to be played at Geelong (other than the game last night involving Geelong)...

[plugger66]

How are the lights at visy and the whitten oval? And you said members go to Etihad so that wont help. And im all for not charging for members.

Don't know about the lights at those venues but I am quite sure that the games can be played on a weekend.
Let me turn this around then...Maybe you can explain why the Bulldogs v St Kilda is the only game to be played at Geelong (other than the game last night involving Geelong)...

I cant explain it at all. maybe the WB or Saints asked for it there afterall there have been people on here saying we should play home games there. And yes they could have played on the weekend but the AFL and Foxtel want 18 games in 18 days so only 2 can be played every weekend. We werent one of them.

[Life Long Saint]

If the AFL werent looking after clubs we and a few others maybe wouldnt even exist anymore.

And neither would the competition. The AFL aren't in the business of cutting off their nose to spite their face. Hell...Even the Harlem Globetrotters needed the Washington Generals.

Yes the fixture could be even and the big games could be to all clubs but we would still have 30k members and be getting crap crowds because its our turn at the bottom. The bigger clubs have turns at the bottom as well but retain members and get bigger crowds when struggling.

It's a load of baloney that teams have their turn at the bottom...Geelong and Sydney haven't had their "turn". Teams that get salary cap advantages or have their own stadiums which allow them have their own reserve's teams don't need to bottom out.

You cant honestly tell me people dont join as a member because our fixture doesnt have a big game or isnt even whatever that means when you can only play 5 sides twice.

Seriously? Fixturing has a lot to with it...If most of our games are Sunday twilight or other times when people can't go then why would they pay for a membership? There'd be a large number of people that would have a footy club membership as a discretionary spending item. Team performance would be a factor but they'd be looking for value for money and games against poor sides would not help that.

We get nearly 3 million a year because of the poor deal at Etihad. I think we need to get this chip off our shoulder.

Do we really? Just because of the poor deal at Etihad? Tthe AFL's discretionary payment to Essendon is $8.4M...and they have a sweet deat. Are we getting screwed again?

Lets face it our sponsorship is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

Isn't it? Why would a company sponsor a team that is hidden away from blockbuster fixtures in prime time?

Our membership is worse than pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

Not entirely the AFL's fault but there is some portion of that they contribute to.

Our corporate is pathetic and thats hardly the AFL fault.

What does that even mean? Do you mean our corporate sales of boxes and packages? Is it pathetic? Where are the figures for that?

Again nice quoting but pretty poor attemps at answering.

I wont quote because its a wank but I will go through your points.

1. No idea what your first point is apart from agreeing with me.
2. Nice that you pick Sydney and geelong. I think I will pick the pies, hawks, Blues and Essendon.
3. No idea what your point is about twilight games. Suggest you read why I said it makes no difference. By the way we didnt crack 40k once when our fixture was excellent for friday night games and we were on top of the ladder. I still stand by people not giving a stuff about who we play twice when deciding to join. I reckon not one person would look at that.
4. Not sure your right about Essendon. happy to say im wrong if you can show all the totals.
5. Yep the AFL have a very small portion of fault. Our supporters have a huge fault.
5. Yes Im mean our corporate sales and packages is pathetic. Just find the last few financial statements.

So after that im happy to say im wrong if you prove your Essendon point and I give you a fraction of AFL fault ragarding membership but apart from that im not sure the quoting helped.

The quoting helps the reader understand which points are being addressed instead of using a numbering system where the number 5 is repeated.
But, if you don't like it....
1. My first point was that the AFL can still screw us but keep us around. Not that hard.
2. I picked Sydney and Geelong and not the others that you mentioned because they don't receive salary cap breaks or have a sweet stadium deal that allowed them to have a reserves team. Note that none of the teams you mentioned had a reserves team when they bottomed out. But why let that little fact get in the way?
3. I did read why it makes no difference but fixturing plays a part.
4. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/e ... 6781952742
5-1. Not saying the supporters aren't at fault but the AFL is not devoid of blame.
5-2. I can't understand a financial statement so reading one won't help me.

[Life Long Saint]

Let me turn this around then...Maybe you can explain why the Bulldogs v St Kilda is the only game to be played at Geelong (other than the game last night involving Geelong)...

I cant explain it at all.

Yet you're quite OK to argue with anyone that says it is a poor option!

[plugger66]

Let me turn this around then...Maybe you can explain why the Bulldogs v St Kilda is the only game to be played at Geelong (other than the game last night involving Geelong)...

I cant explain it at all.

Yet you're quite OK to argue with anyone that says it is a poor option!

Well you are arguing its poor option without knowing why it is being played there. Would have thought that was exactly the same thing but im sure you will come up with reasons why it isnt. All I was doing was showing reasons why it doesnt really matter but whinging about it will obviously change things. It hasnt for as long as I remember but I suppose it may one day.

[plugger66]

Again nice quoting but pretty poor attemps at answering.

I wont quote because its a wank but I will go through your points.

1. No idea what your first point is apart from agreeing with me.
2. Nice that you pick Sydney and geelong. I think I will pick the pies, hawks, Blues and Essendon.
3. No idea what your point is about twilight games. Suggest you read why I said it makes no difference. By the way we didnt crack 40k once when our fixture was excellent for friday night games and we were on top of the ladder. I still stand by people not giving a stuff about who we play twice when deciding to join. I reckon not one person would look at that.
4. Not sure your right about Essendon. happy to say im wrong if you can show all the totals.
5. Yep the AFL have a very small portion of fault. Our supporters have a huge fault.
5. Yes Im mean our corporate sales and packages is pathetic. Just find the last few financial statements.

So after that im happy to say im wrong if you prove your Essendon point and I give you a fraction of AFL fault ragarding membership but apart from that im not sure the quoting helped.

The quoting helps the reader understand which points are being addressed instead of using a numbering system where the number 5 is repeated.
But, if you don't like it....
1. My first point was that the AFL can still screw us but keep us around. Not that hard.
2. I picked Sydney and Geelong and not the others that you mentioned because they don't receive salary cap breaks or have a sweet stadium deal that allowed them to have a reserves team. Note that none of the teams you mentioned had a reserves team when they bottomed out. But why let that little fact get in the way?
3. I did read why it makes no difference but fixturing plays a part.
4. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/e ... 6781952742
5-1. Not saying the supporters aren't at fault but the AFL is not devoid of blame.
5-2. I can't understand a financial statement so reading one won't help me.

Interesting about point 4. Yep Essendon got 8.4 million but that is what every club gets. we got 3 million more because of the poor deal. And point 2 is interesting as well. i said the bigger clubs but that didnt suit you so you went with 2 things that I didnt even mention to prove some sort of point. And point 1 is what I have said all along so I still dont get your point.

[bergholt]

Do we really? Just because of the poor deal at Etihad? Tthe AFL's discretionary payment to Essendon is $8.4M...and they have a sweet deat. Are we getting screwed again?

Good question. Payments to cubs in 2012 (the latest I can find):

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20 ... 12_web.pdf (page 122)

Western Bulldogs $12.70m
Melbourne $12.65m
Collingwood $12.54m
St Kilda $12.50m
North Melbourne $12.32m
Essendon $11.98m
Sydney $11.92m
Richmond $11.55m
Port Adelaide $11.14m
Geelong $11.14m
Carlton $10.87m
Hawthorn $10.64m
Brisbane $10.78m
Adelaide $10.27m
Gold Coast $9.35m
GWS $9.34m
Fremantle $9.34m
West Coast $9.23m

Obviously we're pretty close to the top of this table.

The basis for these payments is:

The AFL makes a number of different distributions and payments to AFL clubs. These payments included the following in 2012:
> A base distribution to all clubs which totalled $121.6 million, an increase of $16.5 million.
> A bonus distribution of $1.2 million to all clubs from the broadcast rights proceeds.
> The AFL distributed equal and disequal payments totalling $30.6 million to all clubs in 2012 from the Club Future Fund.
> Other payments to clubs included amounts for ground buyout agreements, distribution of the AFL’s signage rights at Etihad Stadium, prizemoney, travel subsidies and promotional funding to help clubs develop the game around Australia.