What Peter Summers DIDN'T say !!

[Eastern]

With all of the political correctness of the AGM, I decided to read between the lines of what our President had to say. Here is what I came up with;

The stadium deal with Melbourne Stadiums Limited (Etihad Stadium) is crippling our club and we are NOT going to get any support from the "Bigger Clubs" in this town. We are effectively paying the mortgage for the AFL. When the joint is paid off in about 10 years time and the stadium deal is a lot better, these "Bigger Clubs" will be lining up for their "SHARE" of the pie.

As it is right now, we make BUGGER ALL out of a 30,000 crowd (anything below, we operate at a loss). When the joint is paid off Collingwood will make a decent profit from a 30,000 crowd v GWS.

It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt while they sit back and wait for the joint to be paid off BY StKILDA and others.

Perspective on our current (2013) deal. 1/3 of our match receipts came from our ONE game in NZ, 1/3 came from our TWO home games at the MCG. The other 1/3 came from our EIGHT HOME GAMES at Etihad Stadium !!

[chook23]

what is the current compensation we receive as a result of the stadium situation?.......................notice this has been left out of a number of posts written on the Etihad deal

[Eastern]

what is the current compensation we receive as a result of the stadium situation?.......................notice this has been left out of a number of posts written on the Etihad deal

I don't think we have applied for it YET. I think the club is holding off for as long as it can. Once you become part of the compensation thingy, every aspect of your club is ruled by the AFL.

The irony of it all is that North are getting about $2.5Mill (extra) from the AFL, which allows them to post a profit. We get NOTHING (extra) and we post a big loss !!

[bergholt]

It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt...

Not sure how true that is but if so it's not surprising. The Victorian market isn't big enough for 10 big clubs. Having too many clubs just makes it hard for any to succeed - compared to the other clubs who are in two-club towns.

[The Redeemer]

It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt...

Not sure how true that is but if so it's not surprising. The Victorian market isn't big enough for 10 big clubs. Having too many clubs just makes it hard for any to succeed - compared to the other clubs who are in two-club towns.

The Dogs and Kangas go before us...

[saint6709]

Eastern wrote:
It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt...


Not sure how true that is but if so it's not surprising. The Victorian market isn't big enough for 10 big clubs. Having too many clubs just makes it hard for any to succeed - compared to the other clubs who are in two-club towns.

How is this relevant ?? If we pull a crowd then the town is big enough - we are clearly being compensated poorly for the crowds we get at docklands - we must have signed a poor deal and if we can somehow change the agreement to our advantage then we should try every means possible to do so

[Eastern]

Eastern wrote:
It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt...


Not sure how true that is but if so it's not surprising. The Victorian market isn't big enough for 10 big clubs. Having too many clubs just makes it hard for any to succeed - compared to the other clubs who are in two-club towns.

How is this relevant ?? If we pull a crowd then the town is big enough - we are clearly being compensated poorly for the crowds we get at docklands - we must have signed a poor deal and if we can somehow change the agreement to our advantage then we should try every means possible to do so

It's NOT just the Stadium. It's who we play there, what time of the day/night we play there etc. Check out how many twilight games (as home games) against poorer drawing interstate teams Collingwood etc play !!

[Dave McNamara]

It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt...

Not sure how true that is but if so it's not surprising. The Victorian market isn't big enough for 10 big clubs. Having too many clubs just makes it hard for any to succeed - compared to the other clubs who are in two-club towns.

Leaving Moorabbin was (and maybe there's a mitigating element of 'in hindsight') a mistake.

Allowing the bulldozers in was the greatest mistake in the history of our club... and there are zero mitigating factors!

The consequences of this catastrophic balls-up were papered over/delayed by our on-field strength at the time. (And kudos to some on here, such as P66, who called that.) Now, the chickens are coming home to roost.

But fortunately, it's not too late. We have a second (and last?) chance.

Restore our own home ground, and we can permanently return to being a league powerhouse, as was briefly tasted in that decade from (approx') the mid-60's.

Become a strong club again, and watch our latent supporter base right down the bay get on board!

And if we played outta' the Junction and put on some entertainment (a la the St Kilda bowlo), then watch all the trendy young things who drift into the area get hooked onto the club.

We would finally cash-in on our 'cool'. No more sponsorship issues. Talk about a marketable entity... we'd be beating sponsors off with a stick!

St Kilda FC could and would finally unlock and unleash our potential, and it would be those other boring vanilla clubs who would be facing the St Kilda grinder!


Saintsationalists, it's there for the taking. It can't/won't happen overnight, but it can happen, and it must happen. IMHO this really is boom or (the real potential of) bust stuff.

Now, don't anyone fall over following my recent stance re the handling of Cuddlesgate..., but I reckon that our Board knows all this, and is working to make it happen! I have the faith!

Exciting times will eventuate!

[samuraisaint]

and a few on here still reckon our dole cheque from the AFL is adequate compensation for this. It is outrageous that a foundation member club of the VFA/VFL/AFL is portrayed as a financial basket case begging for pennies from their more successful benefactors, while all the while paying for the mortgage on the Farm. Pathetic!

[samuraisaint]

It is the likes of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong and to a lesser extent Carlton & Essendon who want to grind our club (and a few others) into the dirt...

Not sure how true that is but if so it's not surprising. The Victorian market isn't big enough for 10 big clubs. Having too many clubs just makes it hard for any to succeed - compared to the other clubs who are in two-club towns.

Leaving Moorabbin was (and maybe there's a mitigating element of 'in hindsight') a mistake.

Allowing the bulldozers in was the greatest mistake in the history of our club... and there are zero mitigating factors!

The consequences of this catastrophic balls-up were papered over/delayed by our on-field strength at the time. (And kudos to some on here, such as P66, who called that.) Now, the chickens are coming home to roost.

But fortunately, it's not too late. We have a second (and last?) chance.

Restore our own home ground, and we can permanently return to being a league powerhouse, as was briefly tasted in that decade from (approx') the mid-60's.

Become a strong club again, and watch our latent supporter base right down the bay get on board!

And if we played outta' the Junction and put on some entertainment (a la the St Kilda bowlo), then watch all the trendy young things who drift into the area get hooked onto the club.

We would finally cash-in on our 'cool'. No more sponsorship issues. Talk about a marketable entity... we'd be beating sponsors off with a stick!

St Kilda FC could and would finally unlock and unleash our potential, and it would be those other boring vanilla clubs who would be facing the St Kilda grinder!


Saintsationalists, it's there for the taking. It can't/won't happen overnight, but it can happen, and it must happen. IMHO this really is boom or (the real potential of) bust stuff.

Now, don't anyone fall over following my recent stance re the handling of Cuddlesgate..., but I reckon that our Board knows all this, and is working to make it happen! I have the faith!

Exciting times will eventuate!

love your passion, but this is a pipe dream. A lot of these trendy young things are female and have a negative image of the club due to the recent unsavory sex scandals which rightly or wrongly have beset the cub over the past decade. I work with a lot of people in the demographics that you wish to target and as our departing CEO stated, these incidents and allegations have really tarnished the profile of the club. This was not the case this time ten years ago.

[onlooker2]

As I said on another thread I think this is about our second last chance to do something to establish a decent base to do something about our membership nand give a boost to our sponsorship arrangements (such as they are). We have to establish a decent home base that is recognised and closer to the action. All these things feed off each other and it is not just about a training venue and thankfully there have been enough posters on the site in the past days to support what I think is needed. I am not going to go through all my reasoniong here again but rest assured I am not alone. Get out of Seaford.
Our last chance by the way is to go to the AFL begging for more money and at that point you may as well give them the keys.

[Bernard Shakey]

Leaving Moorabbin was (and maybe there's a mitigating element of 'in hindsight') a mistake.

Allowing the bulldozers in was the greatest mistake in the history of our club... and there are zero mitigating factors!

The consequences of this catastrophic balls-up were papered over/delayed by our on-field strength at the time. (And kudos to some on here, such as P66, who called that.) Now, the chickens are coming home to roost.

But fortunately, it's not too late. We have a second (and last?) chance.

Restore our own home ground, and we can permanently return to being a league powerhouse, as was briefly tasted in that decade from (approx') the mid-60's.

Become a strong club again, and watch our latent supporter base right down the bay get on board!

And if we played outta' the Junction and put on some entertainment (a la the St Kilda bowlo), then watch all the trendy young things who drift into the area get hooked onto the club.

We would finally cash-in on our 'cool'. No more sponsorship issues. Talk about a marketable entity... we'd be beating sponsors off with a stick!

St Kilda FC could and would finally unlock and unleash our potential, and it would be those other boring vanilla clubs who would be facing the St Kilda grinder!


Saintsationalists, it's there for the taking. It can't/won't happen overnight, but it can happen, and it must happen. IMHO this really is boom or (the real potential of) bust stuff.

Now, don't anyone fall over following my recent stance re the handling of Cuddlesgate..., but I reckon that our Board knows all this, and is working to make it happen! I have the faith!

Exciting times will eventuate!

If you think we are ever going to play games at Moorabbin or The Junction Oval, you really are are on the wrong drugs. It will never happen.

We need to get back to Moorabbin as a home base to regain the supporter base.

The stadium deal is going to destroy two or three Melbourne clubs if the AFL does not buy the joint, and we will be one of them.

[onlooker2]

If you think we are ever going to play games at Moorabbin or The Junction Oval, you really are are on the wrong drugs. It will never happen.

We need to get back to Moorabbin as a home base to regain the supporter base.

The stadium deal is going to destroy two or three Melbourne clubs if the AFL does not buy the joint, and we will be one of them.[/quote]


Agree although I wouldn't mind Elsternwick Pk or Junction Oval but Linton St is where the most recent remnants of a base are.

[Dave McNamara]

If you think we are ever going to play games at Moorabbin or The Junction Oval, you really are are on the wrong drugs. It will never happen.

We need to get back to Moorabbin as a home base to regain the supporter base.

The stadium deal is going to destroy two or three Melbourne clubs if the AFL does not buy the joint, and we will be one of them.

Ah, Bernard, the gritty realist.

Ok, I give you some more gritty realism... barely ten years ago, the Hillbillies...
Ground was a hole.
Coach walked out.
Captain walked out.
Hadn't won a flag in 40 years.
Seen as soft (hand-baggers) on-field.
Their city was un-cool and widely referred to as 'struggle-town'.

Oh, and they announced a $6.5+ million debt. (Adjust that up for inflation into today's money).


So no Bernard, I'm not doing any drugs... just simple pragmatic facts and figures, which have been laid out for you by myself and others in this and other threads.

So unless you've got something more than that little line about drug-taking, maybe you could be less of a pessimist, and get on board... reading between the lines, lots of lines, I reckon that our Board is on the case.

And you do want us back based at Moorabbin, so you're half-way there.



PS: Hi Sam'saint, I'm with you on everything you wrote. Just one difference in the interpretation though... do young female footy followers hate Nuff Nuff? After WanCarey and his "get a bigger pair"-type behaviours, surely they should? What I'm saying is, however the young ladies (rightly or wrongly) perceive our club... it can be sorted.

[bergholt]

and a few on here still reckon our dole cheque from the AFL is adequate compensation for this. It is outrageous that a foundation member club of the VFA/VFL/AFL is portrayed as a financial basket case begging for pennies from their more successful benefactors...

Fitzroy was a "foundation member club of the VFA/VFL/AFL".

[samuraisaint]

And Dave, I am with you too. I agree that we need to get back to our roots. I remember in 1997 how the whole City of St Kilda got behind us during the entire final series.

And Berg, I know. The way Fitzroy were shafted so that Brisbane could get a leg up to their first Flag (and second and third) by gifting them players and draft picks on the misleading notion that they were being helped as they were merging in line with the dominant paradigm of the time, was appalling and would be a joke if it weren't such an injustice. But even Fitzroy were not as old as we are. And sadly, not as strategically important. A lot of people barrack for the Saints in the southern suburbs and I am not sure that Fitzroy enjoy the same latent support as we do.

[citywest]

The answer is simple......
The 5 year contract we have with NZ for one home game per year change to 2 home games per year. $$$$$$$$
Move 4 home games from Etihad to the MCG. $$$$$$$$

Cash problem solved.

Simple.

[dragit]

How is this relevant ?? If we pull a crowd then the town is big enough - we are clearly being compensated poorly for the crowds we get at docklands - we must have signed a poor deal and if we can somehow change the agreement to our advantage then we should try every means possible to do so

As far as I know, our contract with Etihad finished years ago, we haven't signed another deal, but as we are fixtured to play there by the AFL we have absolutely no choice or bargaining power.

Hence why we were asking for our home games to be played at the G last year.

[saintspremiers]

How is this relevant ?? If we pull a crowd then the town is big enough - we are clearly being compensated poorly for the crowds we get at docklands - we must have signed a poor deal and if we can somehow change the agreement to our advantage then we should try every means possible to do so

As far as I know, our contract with Etihad finished years ago, we haven't signed another deal, but as we are fixtured to play there by the AFL we have absolutely no choice or bargaining power.

Hence why we were asking for our home games to be played at the G last year.

But this year we have no home games at the G.

So what gives?

Are the AFL trying to put us under?

[gringo]

How is this relevant ?? If we pull a crowd then the town is big enough - we are clearly being compensated poorly for the crowds we get at docklands - we must have signed a poor deal and if we can somehow change the agreement to our advantage then we should try every means possible to do so

As far as I know, our contract with Etihad finished years ago, we haven't signed another deal, but as we are fixtured to play there by the AFL we have absolutely no choice or bargaining power.

Hence why we were asking for our home games to be played at the G last year.

But this year we have no home games at the G.

So what gives?

Are the AFL trying to put us under?

No they see us having no drawing power because we are s*** at the moment so we get punished by being given more games at the financial black hole at the docklands.

The stadium deal is so unfair it's embarrassing. The AFL are unwilling to act because if they start something the bigger clubs arc up and the poorer clubs have evidence that the tenant clubs at Etihad are unfairly treated and could potentially legally force them into paying back money for the loss of income which must run into billions between the smaller clubs.

[Megamaguire]

According to recent media articles (last week) the big clubs are now urging the afl to buy back the Dome quick - that way the poor and weaker clubs playing out of there make a level playing field wage and the big clubs can say don't penalise us for our excess dollars as it isn't needed nowbecause the poorer clubs are making enough new money. The rich clubs i believe are now arguing that equalisation can be achieved solely by the afl buying back the Dome already and Saints; Dogs & Roos finally getting some decent wages. There is your equalisation initiative right there.

This scenario at least has the 3 'weaker' clubs becoming stronger. This is how 10 clubs or whatever can still thrieve in one city.

BUY BACK THE DOME ALREADY !

GO SAINTS!

[plugger66]

what is the current compensation we receive as a result of the stadium situation?.......................notice this has been left out of a number of posts written on the Etihad deal

I don't think we have applied for it YET. I think the club is holding off for as long as it can. Once you become part of the compensation thingy, every aspect of your club is ruled by the AFL.

The irony of it all is that North are getting about $2.5Mill (extra) from the AFL, which allows them to post a profit. We get NOTHING (extra) and we post a big loss !!

Dont we get about 3 million a year because of things like where we play etc. And how come North make a profit and we dont or WB only lose 150k?

[gringo]

what is the current compensation we receive as a result of the stadium situation?.......................notice this has been left out of a number of posts written on the Etihad deal

I don't think we have applied for it YET. I think the club is holding off for as long as it can. Once you become part of the compensation thingy, every aspect of your club is ruled by the AFL.

The irony of it all is that North are getting about $2.5Mill (extra) from the AFL, which allows them to post a profit. We get NOTHING (extra) and we post a big loss !!

Dont we get about 3 million a year because of things like where we play etc. And how come North make a profit and we dont or WB only lose 150k?

So you wouldn't mind getting retrenched to live permanently on the dole. High aspirations sitting back and getting a piddling sum that Collingwood could make over a couple of months as compensation for being screwed.

[plugger66]

I don't think we have applied for it YET. I think the club is holding off for as long as it can. Once you become part of the compensation thingy, every aspect of your club is ruled by the AFL.

The irony of it all is that North are getting about $2.5Mill (extra) from the AFL, which allows them to post a profit. We get NOTHING (extra) and we post a big loss !!

Dont we get about 3 million a year because of things like where we play etc. And how come North make a profit and we dont or WB only lose 150k?

So you wouldn't mind getting retrenched to live permanently on the dole. High aspirations sitting back and getting a piddling sum that Collingwood could make over a couple of months as compensation for being screwed.

Why would you even mention the pies and us together? You are struggling today. Your comparison of what I mentioned and what mentioned makes no sense. Its all consistant today.

[saintspremiers]

According to recent media articles (last week) the big clubs are now urging the afl to buy back the Dome quick - that way the poor and weaker clubs playing out of there make a level playing field wage and the big clubs can say don't penalise us for our excess dollars as it isn't needed nowbecause the poorer clubs are making enough new money. The rich clubs i believe are now arguing that equalisation can be achieved solely by the afl buying back the Dome already and Saints; Dogs & Roos finally getting some decent wages. There is your equalisation initiative right there.

This scenario at least has the 3 'weaker' clubs becoming stronger. This is how 10 clubs or whatever can still thrieve in one city.

BUY BACK THE DOME ALREADY !

GO SAINTS!

Agree.

Come on Mike Fitz Carlton