Riewoldt and Montagna elite - champion data

[kosifantutti]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 30kgf.html

Not much detail.

We have more elite players than Gold Coast, GWS, Melbourne, Port or West Coast.

The same as: Adelaide Brisbane, Carlton, Essendon

[philtee]

Interesting to see that our much-hyped discards - Goddard and Dal Santo - didn't make it on to the
elite lists at Essendon and North Melbourne.

[Eastern]

Joey must have been placed in the elite category for 2014. Rooey was our ONLY player in the elite category in 2013 !!

[stinger]

Interesting to see that our much-hyped discards - Goddard and Dal Santo - didn't make it on to the
elite lists at Essendon and North Melbourne.

bj is elite though...imho....

[Cairnsman]

Interesting to see that our much-hyped discards - Goddard and Dal Santo - didn't make it on to the
elite lists at Essendon and North Melbourne.

bj is elite though...imho....

He's a bit soft.

[BackFromUSA]

oh no!

[bergholt]

It'd be great to see Jack Steven improve a bit more this year and make the step up into that category. He's definitely very good but it's probably fair to say that he's not quite elite yet.

[Mr Magic]

Interesting to see that our much-hyped discards - Goddard and Dal Santo - didn't make it on to the
elite lists at Essendon and North Melbourne.

bj is elite though...imho....

He's a bit soft.

Yep,
Zoned off on the half back line like most 'soft' defenders.

Interesting that he was 'elite' enough to win the B&F at a Club that finished in the 8 (before the AFL sanction) so maybe he was just an 'above average soft player' who had an 'elite' season?

[Sobraz]

BJ is the definition of elite as much as anyone. Any statistics that don't have him in that class should be dismissed as rubbish, despite what they say favorably about a couple of our players..

Steven will step up to our very best and AFL top shelf this season, I am certain of it.

[Teflon]

It'd be great to see Jack Steven improve a bit more this year and make the step up into that category. He's definitely very good but it's probably fair to say that he's not quite elite yet.

He couldnt be far off - was v good last year.

[Cairnsman]

bj is elite though...imho....

He's a bit soft.

Yep,
Zoned off on the half back line like most 'soft' defenders.

Interesting that he was 'elite' enough to win the B&F at a Club that finished in the 8 (before the AFL sanction) so maybe he was just an 'above average soft player' who had an 'elite' season?

BJ probably gave birth to the 'soft' defenders. I lost count of the amount of times he hid in the Saints backline.

And for the record I reckon the definition of elite is a player that establishes himself in his teams best 22 upon debut (or almost upon debut) and stays in that 22 until he retires, and also maintains a very high standard for almost all of that Journey. Players that spring to mind include:

Nick Riewoldt (2011 season was well below a very high standard)
Criss Judd (I think he had the odd down patch but just can't remember it)
Garry Abblet (probably is the definition of elite)

Players that generally don't put more than 2 bad games in a row is another measure.

BJ didn't really get going until about 2008 and probably for the first 5 years of his career there was intense debate, (well on here anyway) about him being an overrated No. 1 pick.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

lota sour grapes on here ... had BJ played as well for us in his last year in the red white and black as he did for the bombers we would be screaming murder that he wasnt called elite ...

to me BJ played a very good year much improved on his last year with us and ill expect this year he will again play a big role for essendon

[Sobraz]

And for the record I reckon the definition of elite is a player that establishes himself in his teams best 22 upon debut (or almost upon debut)

Garry Abblet (probably is the definition of elite)

Players that generally don't put more than 2 bad games in a row is another measure.

You obviously missed Ablett Jnr's firt 50 games... Was far from impressive and the superstar he is today.

[Zed]

lota sour grapes on here ... had BJ played as well for us in his last year in the red white and black as he did for the bombers we would be screaming murder that he wasnt called elite ...

to me BJ played a very good year much improved on his last year with us and ill expect this year he will again play a big role for essendon

Spot on.

I always thought he would get more out of himself by leaving. He needed the new challenge - he had something to prove. Had he stayed, it would have been more of what we had in 2012. He is a super competitive beast and as long as Essendon are vying for a top 4 spot this year and next then he will still be very good. If they drop off the pace, so will his enthusiasm and form.

[stinger]

BJ is the definition of elite as much as anyone. Any statistics that don't have him in that class should be dismissed as rubbish, despite what they say favorably about a couple of our players..

Steven will step up to our very best and AFL top shelf this season, I am certain of it.

good post...

[Cairnsman]

And for the record I reckon the definition of elite is a player that establishes himself in his teams best 22 upon debut (or almost upon debut)

Garry Abblet (probably is the definition of elite)

Players that generally don't put more than 2 bad games in a row is another measure.

You obviously missed Ablett Jnr's firt 50 games... Was far from impressive and the superstar he is today.

Right you are, I now remember a few question marks over him too. C Judd then probably stands alone as the definition of Elite.

[citywest]

I know everyone is going to flip out over this comment but anyway.........

Rooey is not elite IMHO because of his poor conversion rate on goal. He un-does so much of his great work with his bad kicking for goal. Now before all you guys call me a troll and whatever else, I'm not bagging him. If Rooey could have converted in the same manner as Tony Locket, Reiwoldt would have gone down as the best CHF of all time.

[BigMart]

We're not baiting there boys?

You guys are priceless.... Bringing in stuff from another thread to have a dig?!

Really is funny... In both threads

Crying about copping a slight sledge, then dishing it out (which is common)

Every Sat I encounter these sorts and nothing I enjoy more than letting them know about it..

BJ is not soft, nor is he hard... Just a very good footballer with elite skill.

Joey and Nick are elite
Jack A Grade
Not sure where Lenny, Sam F and Adam S are at their age and return from injury

I've got a feeling about Newnes and Wright

[plugger66]

We're not baiting there boys?

You guys are priceless.... Bringing in stuff from another thread to have a dig?!

Really is funny... In both threads

Crying about copping a slight sledge, then dishing it out (which is common)

Every Sat I encounter these sorts and nothing I enjoy more than letting them know about it..

BJ is not soft, nor is he hard... Just a very good footballer with elite skill.

Joey and Nick are elite
Jack A Grade
Not sure where Lenny, Sam F and Adam S are at their age and return from injury

I've got a feeling about Newnes and Wright

Again you are baiting. Jack has moved up quickly and i aint baiting. After half the season last season you completely didnt rate the guy.

[bergholt]

C Judd then probably stands alone as the definition of Elite.

If you've got a category with only one member then it's not really a category. Might be worth relaxing your definition a little!

[Cairnsman]

C Judd then probably stands alone as the definition of Elite.

If you've got a category with only one member then it's not really a category. Might be worth relaxing your definition a little!

In all seriousness what is the defunition of elite. This debate comes up on every now and then and I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer to the question. Certainly players such as Roo, Judd and Abblett can lay claim to the elite tag for big chunks of their careers however with the greatest of respect to Monty I don't think he flys in the same air space. When on song he is A grade but I'd think that even he would reject the elite tag. And that raises another question which is how do you objectively grade an A grader?

[plugger66]

C Judd then probably stands alone as the definition of Elite.

If you've got a category with only one member then it's not really a category. Might be worth relaxing your definition a little!

In all seriousness what is the defunition of elite. This debate comes up on every now and then and I don't think I've ever seen a definitive answer to the question. Certainly players such as Roo, Judd and Abblett can lay claim to the elite tag for big chunks of their careers however with the greatest of respect to Monty I don't think he flys in the same air space. When on song he is A grade but I'd think that even he would reject the elite tag. And that raises another question which is how do you objectively grade an A grader?

Well this is based purely on champion data stats so there is no wrong in this case. Rooy and Joey were elite last year on that data. All others ways of deciding elite or A grade or whatever grade are opinions. This isnt an opinion.

[saintspremiers]

oh no!

Oh yes!

BM & P66 are now involved!

Back on topic: BJ won the Golden Needle Award (Essendon B&F) so must be elite. End of story.

[Eastern]

I think I remember being told that Champion Data put a lot of weight on All Australian & Club B&F when deciding who is elite. From memory a players need 3 ticks from these two before being considered elite. Other criteria would also need to be met.

Going on that, Jack would need another B&F AND AA selection before being considered !!

[Old Mate]

I think I remember being told that Champion Data put a lot of weight on All Australian & Club B&F when deciding who is elite. From memory a players need 3 ticks from these two before being considered elite. Other criteria would also need to be met.

Going on that, Jack would need another B&F AND AA selection before being considered !!

Also explains why BJ (1 b&f) and Dal (0 b&f) were not considered.