Teams

[Con Gorozidis]

Terrific post Dave.
Entertaining and hopefully accurate.

Like you - Im also tipping Saunders as the 2014 bolter.

[Wrote for Luck]

Murdoch looks to have fulfilled the name Bull with a little more flesh in the preseason. Could be a bolter too.
Tom Curren is going to be Mr Fix It. Can't wait to see The Bag Man win a few fans next year.

[samuraisaint]

One big position missing - we don't have a key FF. If we finish bottom three next year again, and many predict we will, we should be able to get the best young FF in the country. That will solve a massive problem. We haven't had a FF since Gehrig retired.

[bergholt]

Geary Delaney Dempster

Fisher Bruce. Roberton

Montagna Armitage. Savage

Schneider. Riewoldt. Siposs

Stanley. Lee. Milera

Longer Hayes Steven

Int. Hickey Ross Newnes Gilbert

Em. Wright Dunstan Ray Curren

Especially when you put Gilbert in on the bench, that team looks really tall to me. Over 190 you have: Longer, Hickey, Stanley, Bruce, Gilbert, Roberton, Delaney, Lee, Riewoldt, Fisher, Dempster. 11 true talls, 50% of the team. 5 out of 6 of the backline are tall, three big guys in the forward line (and Siposs who's a tall medium) and two of the guys on the bench are tall.

WW, you understand footy better than I do. Is it actually possible to go into a game with such a tall side? There's only seven true midfielders in there (at a stretch) - doesn't that hurt our running power significantly?

[PJ]

One big position missing - we don't have a key FF. If we finish bottom three next year again, and many predict we will, we should be able to get the best young FF in the country. That will solve a massive problem. We haven't had a FF since Gehrig retired.

Disagree completely - Tom Lee is probably about the best set shot for goal in the league. He'll develop with time. Needs about 5 set shots in any game to kick around 4 goals.

[White Winmar]

Geary Delaney Dempster

Fisher Bruce. Roberton

Montagna Armitage. Savage

Schneider. Riewoldt. Siposs

Stanley. Lee. Milera

Longer Hayes Steven

Int. Hickey Ross Newnes Gilbert

Em. Wright Dunstan Ray Curren

Especially when you put Gilbert in on the bench, that team looks really tall to me. Over 190 you have: Longer, Hickey, Stanley, Bruce, Gilbert, Roberton, Delaney, Lee, Riewoldt, Fisher, Dempster. 11 true talls, 50% of the team. 5 out of 6 of the backline are tall, three big guys in the forward line (and Siposs who's a tall medium) and two of the guys on the bench are tall.

WW, you understand footy better than I do. Is it actually possible to go into a game with such a tall side? There's only seven true midfielders in there (at a stretch) - doesn't that hurt our running power significantly?

Fair call, Bergholt, but tall is the new black, in footy terms. Siposs and Milera are the speculative ones. Both have great natural ability, but need to match it with application. Fortunately, most of our talls are fairly athletic. In terms of pure height, yes the team is tall, but it's mobility and versatility that really count. Roberton, for instance, is tall by your definition, but plays more as a running type, as does Gilbert. The average height on lists last year, according to The Age was 188 cm, so overall 190 is not really that tall. I'd think that 193-4 would now be considered a genuine "tall".

Over the past few seasons we have seen the emergence of the midfield "beast". Strong and tall, we need a couple in our line up. I believe Gilbert could play the role, but other than him, we might have to look to the future, with the likes of Dunstan and Acres. Having said all that, the round one team will probably look nothing like the one I just posted.

[Wrote for Luck]

Usually teams are 187/188cm average. A jump by two in the overall average is certainly significant, but agree with the general point. You can't just look at the figures in isolation without considering what a player brings. When an injury comes or a player has a dip in form we will be pleased about the additional height down back.

There's good height in the forward line now too:

White 196
Riewoldt 193
Lee 194
Stanley 200
Maister 194

[Con Gorozidis]

We have a lot of height on our list now and no doubt we will add another young tall kpp at years end.

I still think both Saunders and Webster need to be squeezed into our best 22 next year.

Both good players imho.

[Moods]

Which teams are likely to finish below the saints?

Defitnitely:
Wogans, Dreamons, Teddies.

Probably:
Poodles, Sons of Beaches.

Don't be surprised if:
E-girls, Bluescum, Tuggers, EffndopeneedlecheatinggotoUSAonlytotrainindoorssoftas.

Our defence will be way-yay better... (finally) big key defenders to free up Chips, Sam G, Demps' and Jimmy G who will be back from injuries.
Factor a far stronger defence just alone into last season's results... and do the sums.

Our forward line will be improved... Still life in Roo, Lee settling in, Maister fit again, Markworth, Sippa re-born (fingers crossed), Stanley to have a break-out year (compare his slow initial progress to one Spider Everitt ), Sneids fit (fingers crossed), and then there's a fitter and built-up... Spenc-aaaaaarh!

Our rucks will improve... sorry Owl, but we will win some tap outs now.

Our midfield may very well surprise a few...
Jack Lorne is elite.
Curren to improve further.
Dunstan to step straight in.
Ross to improve.
Armo is IMHO amazingly underrated... and he has more improvement to go.
Newnes and Saunders to be the bolters... you read that here first folks! (Happy though to be half a season early al la with Jack. )
Monty still going strong.
Lenny to provide guidance at worst, at best, who knows...?

(Acres to be the steal of the draft, but probably not big enough yet, so I'm not factoring him, nor Billings, into next season.)

Keep the faith Saintas!!!

I agree. I think the Sainters will surprise most next year.

I like the optimism. If we can't be enthusiastic at this time of year, we never will be. I don't think we'll make the 8, but I think we'll improve - maybe 7-10 wins..

[PADDLEPOP1001]

I "d have Dunstan ,Curren and Wright in ahead of Milera and Sippos

[Armoooo]

Wow, I just tried to map out a 22 and I can't believe how many options we have... I still think we have one of the worst lists in the comp but at least we're starting to get some young players to work with... It will just depend how many of the youngsters can step up.

I'd be looking at a line up like this:

FB: J.Geary L.Delaney S.Gilbert
HB: (Player A) S.Fisher D.Roberton
C: L.Montagna L.Hayes S.Savage
HF: A.Schneider N.Riewoldt (Player B)
FF: T.Lee B.Maister (Player C)
R: B.Longer D.Armitage J.Steven
I/C: T.Hickey C.Jones (Player D) (Player E)

Player A will come from the following group (in order of preference):
Dempster
Wright
Gwilt
Newnes

Player B will come from:
Curren
Markworth
Billings
Milera

Player C will come from:
Siposs
Stanley
Markworth
Billings

Player D will depend on who fills the spots above but I think that Curren and Newnes have to play.

Player E I would like to be used on young players almost exclusively, I expect players like Acres, Billings etc. Spend some time with the vest on

I can't believe how many players I've had to leave out.... In my head about 35 of our players were starting 22

[sasaint]

I'd be looking at a line up like this:

FB: J.Geary L.Delaney S.Gilbert
HB: (Player A) S.Fisher D.Roberton
C: L.Montagna L.Hayes S.Savage
HF: A.Schneider N.Riewoldt (Player B)
FF: T.Lee B.Maister (Player C)
R: B.Longer D.Armitage J.Steven
I/C: T.Hickey C.Jones (Player D) (Player E)

IMO Dempster is an automatic selection. Newnes likely also to be in 22 from start. Gilbert will be moved to a more flexible role. With loss of Milne and Saad we will be looking for a smallish forward.Would like a better option but think TDL will get this role. Curren has cemented his possi in the 22 from his end of year form and off season commitment. There's a lot of love for Markworth around here but he will have to prove himself in the Magoos.

FB: J.Geary L.Delaney Dempster
HB: Newnes S.Fisher D.Roberton
C: L.Montagna L.Hayes S.Savage
HF: A.Schneider N.Riewoldt Curren
FF: T.Lee B.Maister TDL
R: B.Longer D.Armitage J.Steven
I/C: T.Hickey C.Jones Gilbert Ross

I think that list will give us a lot of enjoyment early in the season

[Old Mate]

B: Geary Delaney Dempster
HB: Roberton Bruce Fisher
C: Joey Steven Ray
HF: Saunders Riewoldt Schnieder
F: Curren Lee Stanley
R: Longer Armo Hayes
I: Gilbert Savage Ross Newnes

E: Hickey Wright Gwilt

[Old Mate]

B: Geary Delaney Dempster
HB: Roberton Bruce Fisher
C: Joey Steven Ray
HF: Saunders Riewoldt Schnieder
F: Curren Lee Stanley
R: Longer Armo Hayes
I: Gilbert Savage Ross Newnes

E: Hickey Wright Gwilt

[Old Mate]

B: Geary Delaney Dempster
HB: Roberton Bruce Fisher
C: Joey Steven Ray
HF: Saunders Riewoldt Schnieder
F: Curren Lee Stanley
R: Longer Armo Hayes
I: Gilbert Savage Ross Newnes

E: Hickey Wright Gwilt

[Con Gorozidis]

B: Geary Delaney Dempster
HB: Roberton Bruce Fisher
C: Joey Steven Ray
HF: Saunders Riewoldt Schnieder
F: Curren Lee Stanley
R: Longer Armo Hayes
I: Gilbert Savage Ross Newnes

E: Hickey Wright Gwilt

Not far off how I feel old mate.

Just some slight caveats for me:

I reckon Webster is going to put a LOT of pressure on Ray for that spot.
Ross and even Dunstan will be ready and willing to fill in for Len dog who I don't think will be play that often
To me Stanley still has to prove himself in the magoos - not sure he is an automatic in.

[stinger]

Which teams are likely to finish below the saints?

Defitnitely:
Wogans, Dreamons, Teddies.

Probably:
Poodles, Sons of Beaches.

Don't be surprised if:
E-girls, Bluescum, Tuggers, EffndopeneedlecheatinggotoUSAonlytotrainindoorssoftas.

Our defence will be way-yay better... (finally) big key defenders to free up Chips, Sam G, Demps' and Jimmy G who will be back from injuries.
Factor a far stronger defence just alone into last season's results... and do the sums.

Our forward line will be improved... Still life in Roo, Lee settling in, Maister fit again, Markworth, Sippa re-born (fingers crossed), Stanley to have a break-out year (compare his slow initial progress to one Spider Everitt ), Sneids fit (fingers crossed), and then there's a fitter and built-up... Spenc-aaaaaarh!

Our rucks will improve... sorry Owl, but we will win some tap outs now.

Our midfield may very well surprise a few...
Jack Lorne is elite.
Curren to improve further.
Dunstan to step straight in.
Ross to improve.
Armo is IMHO amazingly underrated... and he has more improvement to go.
Newnes and Saunders to be the bolters... you read that here first folks! (Happy though to be half a season early al la with Jack. )
Monty still going strong.
Lenny to provide guidance at worst, at best, who knows...?

(Acres to be the steal of the draft, but probably not big enough yet, so I'm not factoring him, nor Billings, into next season.)

Keep the faith Saintas!!!






PS: As ever, alternative viewpoints are welcomed. But please back 'em up with your reasonings.

great post mate

[gringo]

I saw Tom Curren and Nate Wright at Chaddy the other day and only noticed them because I thought that dude has guns like Curren. Wright looks like he's buddied up and has put on some serious muscle too- not a bad influence to have around you Tom C. They were in singlets and looked in incredible nick for the off season.In comparison I saw Juddy in St Kilda yesterday and he looked like he'd retired even had a bit of a double chin.

[Con Gorozidis]

I saw Tom Curren and Nate Wright at Chaddy the other day and only noticed them because I thought that dude has guns like Curren. Wright looks like he's buddied up and has put on some serious muscle too- not a bad influence to have around you Tom C. They were in singlets and looked in incredible nick for the off season.In comparison I saw Juddy in St Kilda yesterday and he looked like he'd retired even had a bit of a double chin.

I saw Tommy Lee in Cottesloe on Sunday night. I said to my friend - 'thats a saints player' - she said 'really - he doesn't look like a footy player'.
But he's looking pretty trim and fit - but in no way is he muscled up. Looks quite slim and not super toned. Just looks like a normal fit bloke. Maybe they want him to play a fwd flank?

[Old Mate]

B: Geary Delaney Dempster
HB: Roberton Bruce Fisher
C: Joey Steven Ray
HF: Saunders Riewoldt Schnieder
F: Curren Lee Stanley
R: Longer Armo Hayes
I: Gilbert Savage Ross Newnes

E: Hickey Wright Gwilt

Not far off how I feel old mate.

Just some slight caveats for me:

I reckon Webster is going to put a LOT of pressure on Ray for that spot.
Ross and even Dunstan will be ready and willing to fill in for Len dog who I don't think will be play that often
To me Stanley still has to prove himself in the magoos - not sure he is an automatic in.

We seem to have a lot of players of similar ability vying for positions and having a new coach makes the team selection the more difficult. I'd certainly put Webster in that category along with Saunders, Wright, Ross, Curren etc. but I guess I was trying to squeeze in the players who can play in the midfield. That left Webster and Wright out of my 22.

Ray was a real standout last season when finally given the opportunity under SW's and if he has a strong pre-season as I expect than he's one of the first dozen chosen with a real need for senior bodies in the team. I expect our new coach will be on the same page seeing as he's focusing on hardness and contested footy.

As mush as I wanted to, I didn't consider the new 18 y/o draftees because they are the unknown and I'm managing my expectations of them. I hope they get a solid grounding before being thrown into the deep end unless they are ready to go and deserve the chance. I somewhat agree with your assessment of Lenny. I reckon he'll be managed throughout the year and that will give a guy like Dunstan an opportunity. Similarly with Billings I reckon he's a decent chance to get an opportunity with Saad and Milne no longer with us and queries over Schneider's durability.

The only reason I put Stanley into the lineup is for team balance. I don't like the idea of Hickey and Longer in the same team unless one can develop more as a forward. I favour Stanley because you can sit him in the forward line or even down back if required and he can ruck okay. Stanley in his role as a 'swingman' isn't as good as the other two in their roles as a 'ruck' but it's the versatility that has me selecting him.

[footynut]

This is actually harder than first thought, as we want to win games however also want to encourage development.
Here's my best line up:

FB: J.Geary L.Delaney Dempster
HB: S.Fisher J.Bruce D.Roberton
C: L.Montagna L.Hayes S.Savage
HF: A.Schneider N.Riewoldt R.Stanley
FF: T.Lee B.Longer T.Curren
R: T.Hickey D.Armitage J.Steven

I/C: Gilbert, Newnes, F.Ray, S.Ross

E: N.Wright, Webster, J.Saunders

And considering Montagna is unavaliable round 1, I'd put Gilbert on to the wing; and promote Webster to the bench.

People have been saying that a team like this is too tall, however I disagree as it comes down to commtment, speed, agility and ability to apply pressure. The other aspect that will shap the team, is the structures that AR wants to implement.

[St.Rob8]

Love Webster's attitude. I reckon he is tough nails. Once he puts on a bit of muscle he will haunt the dreams of forwards.

[cwrcyn]

B: Dempster Delaney Fisher
HB: Gwilt Bruce Roberton
C Geary Steven Gilbert
HF Armitage Lee Saunders
FF Schneider Riewoldt Maister

R: Hickey Montagna Curren

I/C Hayes Newnes Longer Jones

Emerg: Markworth Wright Ray Ross

[Con Gorozidis]

Love Webster's attitude. I reckon he is tough nails. Once he puts on a bit of muscle he will haunt the dreams of forwards.

Hes tough skilful and quick.
I reckon he will be one of our better ones.

[Beekay]

Simpkin-Delaney-Dempster
Roberton-Bruce-Fisher

Gilert-Steven-Wright

Montagna-Riewoldt-Curren
Schneider-Lee-Stanley



R: Longer - Armitage - Hayes

I/C: Geary Newnes Savage

S: Webster



Hopefully we can get something like this together at some point.



I like Simpkin. Old school competitor. Can grind out 50/50 contests really well.


Looking at Curren, Wright & Newnes cementing their spots early on.


Sprinkle of experience all over the field.


Possibility of Bruce having a run up forward, especially if Stanley doesn't come on.


Ray/CJ/Gwilt shouldn't feature too heavily unless they step it up 15-20%. Valuable spots for development, and really, if it wins us an extra 3-4 games, that can only be bad. A few wins definitely needed though, but a top 4 draft pick...


Dunstan, Markworth & Acres biting at the heels