Saints in Milne legal funds row

[Moorabbin Man]

"There is a power imbalance when anyone takes on the AFL or their clubs. They have money and influence and access to high-end lawyers, which the [alleged] victims obviously won't have,'' said CASA spokeswoman Carolyn Worth.'


what a load of crap....the "victim" has the resources of the state of victoria behind her ffs.....

Did she actually say that??? What a disgracefully misleading comment. Ms Worth is either a moron or manipulatively disingenuous. Typical of the hysteria created by hard left femos and the misguided opinions of some on here.

[Moorabbin Man]

Back on topic... didn't that article say that the coterie person in question received the email in question from another coterie member who was quite happy to contribute something, not from the players...? And as for concerns re it all being a 'PR disaster'... well Mr Coterie, mate, only because you have made it one by going public!

Questions re their methods or not, it sounds to me like the players meant well... wanting to support a mate whom the clearly believe is innocent.

What about you Mr Coterie? Did you also mean well???

Coz if you did, IMHO your indignation and big mouth are doing far more harm to our club than the behind the scenes efforts of some of the players!

If the players have acted dumb... you've just been far dumber...!

Well said, quite frankly the d**khead who contacted the media is quite simply a dog.

[Moorabbin Man]

Surely we have a PR department that should vet things like this?
Not prepared to accept the excuse that players did it off their own bat without consulting the club.
Serious questions need to be asked of our "leadership group", surely one amongst them would have questioned the PR implications.

You have demonstrated in a number of your comments in this thread, that you have no regard for the presumption of innocence, no interest in the concept of a fair trial and indulge in a 'mob rule' mentality. If you are ever sellected for jury duty, please decline. In the meantime please get off your hysterical high horse.

Where was your regard for the presumption of innocence when, in another thread concerning this case, you named a former member of the bench and called him corrupt?

Secondly, your earlier comment that an "innocent" verdict (actually "not guilty") would demonstrate that Milne had been the subject of a false complaint is patently wrong. Consent appears to be the major issue in this case. It would be open to a jury to find that Milne held a genuine belief that the woman was consenting (ie he thought she knew it was him not Joey) and therefore acquit. Such a finding is not mutually exclusive of the possibility that the woman herself may not have felt that she was consenting (ie she in fact mistakenly thought it was Joey). A complaint made by a woman holding that belief cannot and should not be labelled "false".

Let me respond to the issues you raise with my comments.

1) When I referred to retired Justice Michael Moore as being corrupt, it was from my perspective of having being a direct victim of his corruption. In case you think I'm whingeing because I got a bad decision from him, that's not the case, I clarify his corrupt conduct towards me and others did not occur when he was presiding as a Judge, but in a role he performed after retiring from the bench.

2) In regard to Milne's innocence, yes I am aware that sometimes guilty people are acquitted for a number of reasons. However, usually when someone is acquitted it is because, surprise, surprise they are innocent. Regardless, a person acquitted should be afforded the assumption that they are innocent.

I also made other comments that are on the money regarding Gillard and Shorten. Today in the Melbourne Magistrate's Court the Police are defending their right to keep a file they seized from Slater & Gordon, in their investigation of alleged fraud by Julia Gillard & the AWU (including Shorten). Also, you may of heard of the senior ALP figure under investigation for RAPE. It's Bill Shorten!

So whilst we comment and argue about Milne, the Opposition Leader and potential future Prime Minister is under two separate investigations for fraud and rape. I think that is more concerning actually.

So if some think I'm full of it and my comments were baseless, well think again.

[Moods]

I hope the Essendon asking for money for legal costs is put on the front page of the paper. A club sanctioned illegal activity was exposed and the club has sanctioned the fund raising from high profiole and every day supporters and coterie folks. Hmmm why is that not made more of. In fact Essendon has just signed the aircon people after this terrible error ofjudgement.

Maybe until a coterie member stick themselves in the paper in outrage nothing will happen.

Poor analogy imo. Rightly or wrongly supporters will always help their CLUB. They're not going to watch their club go down the tubes because of some ill conceived high performance program. We wouldn't either. Players and officials come and go - but the club will always be there. Having said that the bombers made it clear that the call for funds was to pay off their new training facility NOT to pay legal bills. They have given their supporters assurances that this will occur. What those assurances are worth? Well, who knows. I can probably guess what your response will be.

In any event I reckon a better analogy would be if James Hird was issued with an infraction notice, and he wished to fight it all the way. To do so though he appealed to coterie groups and the like to finance his defence. THAT would be disgraceful, and I'm reasonably confident many would turn on him. Having said that, it's still a club issue more than Milney's current plight, which I still maintain has nothing to do with the Saints, therefore coteries etc should be left out of it.

Stinger - you claim that your glad you didn't waste 15 minutes of your life reading all this? However you still posted. How would you know this thread was all rubbish unless you actually read it?

[stinger]

Back on topic... didn't that article say that the coterie person in question received the email in question from another coterie member who was quite happy to contribute something, not from the players...? And as for concerns re it all being a 'PR disaster'... well Mr Coterie, mate, only because you have made it one by going public!

Questions re their methods or not, it sounds to me like the players meant well... wanting to support a mate whom the clearly believe is innocent.

What about you Mr Coterie? Did you also mean well???

Coz if you did, IMHO your indignation and big mouth are doing far more harm to our club than the behind the scenes efforts of some of the players!

If the players have acted dumb... you've just been far dumber...!

Well said, quite frankly the d**khead who contacted the media is quite simply a dog.

+1,000

[Con Gorozidis]

I hope the Essendon asking for money for legal costs is put on the front page of the paper. A club sanctioned illegal activity was exposed and the club has sanctioned the fund raising from high profiole and every day supporters and coterie folks. Hmmm why is that not made more of. In fact Essendon has just signed the aircon people after this terrible error ofjudgement.

Maybe until a coterie member stick themselves in the paper in outrage nothing will happen.

Poor analogy imo. Rightly or wrongly supporters will always help their CLUB. They're not going to watch their club go down the tubes because of some ill conceived high performance program. We wouldn't either. Players and officials come and go - but the club will always be there. Having said that the bombers made it clear that the call for funds was to pay off their new training facility NOT to pay legal bills. They have given their supporters assurances that this will occur. What those assurances are worth? Well, who knows. I can probably guess what your response will be.

In any event I reckon a better analogy would be if James Hird was issued with an infraction notice, and he wished to fight it all the way. To do so though he appealed to coterie groups and the like to finance his defence. THAT would be disgraceful, and I'm reasonably confident many would turn on him. Having said that, it's still a club issue more than Milney's current plight, which I still maintain has nothing to do with the Saints, therefore coteries etc should be left out of it.

Stinger - you claim that your glad you didn't waste 15 minutes of your life reading all this? However you still posted. How would you know this thread was all rubbish unless you actually read it?

Even that isnt a great analogy because Hird's legal issues have arisen directly from his role as coach and at the club and (cheaty) attempt at winning a flag.
Milne's ills are strictly and 100% in the personal realm.

That too me is the issue - sure the coterie guy should have expressed his concern privately and not gone off to the media - but that doesn't change the fact that what the players or 'mates' did was was wrong because it was an abuse of their position and privilege and shows zero regardfor the separation of private from public/professional.

[Moods]

I hope the Essendon asking for money for legal costs is put on the front page of the paper. A club sanctioned illegal activity was exposed and the club has sanctioned the fund raising from high profiole and every day supporters and coterie folks. Hmmm why is that not made more of. In fact Essendon has just signed the aircon people after this terrible error ofjudgement.

Maybe until a coterie member stick themselves in the paper in outrage nothing will happen.

Poor analogy imo. Rightly or wrongly supporters will always help their CLUB. They're not going to watch their club go down the tubes because of some ill conceived high performance program. We wouldn't either. Players and officials come and go - but the club will always be there. Having said that the bombers made it clear that the call for funds was to pay off their new training facility NOT to pay legal bills. They have given their supporters assurances that this will occur. What those assurances are worth? Well, who knows. I can probably guess what your response will be.

In any event I reckon a better analogy would be if James Hird was issued with an infraction notice, and he wished to fight it all the way. To do so though he appealed to coterie groups and the like to finance his defence. THAT would be disgraceful, and I'm reasonably confident many would turn on him. Having said that, it's still a club issue more than Milney's current plight, which I still maintain has nothing to do with the Saints, therefore coteries etc should be left out of it.

Stinger - you claim that your glad you didn't waste 15 minutes of your life reading all this? However you still posted. How would you know this thread was all rubbish unless you actually read it?

Even that isnt a great analogy because Hird's legal issues have arisen directly from his role as coach and at the club and (cheaty) attempt at winning a flag.
Milne's ills are strictly and 100% in the personal realm.

That too me is the issue - sure the coterie guy should have expressed his concern privately and not gone off to the media - but that doesn't change the fact that what the players or 'mates' did was was wrong because it was an abuse of their position and privilege and shows zero regardfor the separation of private from public/professional.

Think you missed my point

[samwell]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

[bobmurray]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

probably the best comment so far

[8856brother]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

probably the best comment so far

His public profile is a tad different to "any other alleged rapist". He is hated by thousands of Victorians. Many of whom would love to see him go down. A fair trial is almost impossible. It's not hard to work this out. If his friends want to try and help him get the best possible defence, then good on them. I would do the same. If the coterie member didn't want to help, he or she didn't have to. The fact he or she went to the media is pathetic. Like all clubs, we have some dead set drop kicks supporting our mighty club.

[samwell]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

probably the best comment so far

His public profile is a tad different to "any other alleged rapist". He is hated by thousands of Victorians. Many of whom would love to see him go down. A fair trial is almost impossible. It's not hard to work this out. If his friends want to try and help him get the best possible defence, then good on them. I would do the same. If the coterie member didn't want to help, he or she didn't have to. The fact he or she went to the media is pathetic. Like all clubs, we have some dead set drop kicks supporting our mighty club.

Yep and he can probably afford 100 times better lawyer off his own bat than "any other alleged rapist". Fair enough if your mates want to help out but they've obviously asked someone who isn't his mate. You can blame the supporter but whether we like out or not this stuff always gets out.

[stinger]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

most of them get legal aid....

[stinger]

Like all clubs, we have some dead set drop kicks supporting our mighty club.

yes we do, unfortunately....

[samwell]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

most of them get legal aid....

What's your point??

[stinger]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

most of them get legal aid....

What's your point??

i thought that was obvious...guess i will have to type slower...... .........most alleged rapists...and murders for that matter..... get the best defence lawyers.... paid with by taxpayers dollars.....

[Con Gorozidis]

Think you missed my point

OK - So i think ur saying if Hirdy did direct damage to club - and then asked for money from supporters to defend him personally that would be taking the piss.
Fair enough. I see what you mean.

[Johnny Member]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

Why can't any other alleged rapist get financial assistance from those close to him/her?


I think this is ridiculous.



The players close to Milne, clearly, obviously think he is absolutely innocent. They love him, respect him, and played alongside him for 10 years after the incident. They clearly think he is innocent.

When another person was accused of rape, they received no support from anyone. So there is a precedence that if the players thought Milne was guilty, they'd have barred him too.

This, not for a second, means he is actually innocent or not. It simply means that his close friends, one of whom was present at the time, clearly believe he is.


So if they, off their own bats, hit up some cashed up people they know, whether they know them through the club or not, then that is absolutely their prerogative and they are well within their rights to do so. The club also, rightly has nothing to do with it.

Whether the club would like to help or not, is irrelevant. The club can't help for obvious reasons.


But players absolutely can in my opinion.



I personally wouldn't put in a dime if asked however.

[stinger]

I personally wouldn't put in a dime if asked however.

i would if asked....

[Johnny Member]

I personally wouldn't put in a dime if asked however.

i would if asked....

I'm sure plenty would too.

But for mine, I know no factual details of the situation so can't and won't make a judgment either way. And by chipping money in for one side, for mine that is tantamount to me making a judgment.

[stinger]

I personally wouldn't put in a dime if asked however.

i would if asked....

I'm sure plenty would too.

But for mine, I know no factual details of the situation so can't and won't make a judgment either way. And by chipping money in for one side, for mine that is tantamount to me making a judgment.

why???? the other side has the full resources of the victorian government at their disposal......a bit lop sided for mine.....

[Con Gorozidis]

How about getting a lawyer you can afford like any other alleged rapist has to

Why can't any other alleged rapist get financial assistance from those close to him/her?


I think this is ridiculous.



The players close to Milne, clearly, obviously think he is absolutely innocent. They love him, respect him, and played alongside him for 10 years after the incident. They clearly think he is innocent.

When another person was accused of rape, they received no support from anyone. So there is a precedence that if the players thought Milne was guilty, they'd have barred him too.

This, not for a second, means he is actually innocent or not. It simply means that his close friends, one of whom was present at the time, clearly believe he is.


So if they, off their own bats, hit up some cashed up people they know, whether they know them through the club or not, then that is absolutely their prerogative and they are well within their rights to do so. The club also, rightly has nothing to do with it.

Whether the club would like to help or not, is irrelevant. The club can't help for obvious reasons.


But players absolutely can in my opinion.



I personally wouldn't put in a dime if asked however.

in one breath you say the players should be able to support him - and then that they 'hit up some cashed up people'

which one is it. Thye arent the same thing.
I think everyone thinks its fine if they pitch in themselves - people think its not ok to lean on people who have never even met the bloke.
just total tight asses. wont pitch in themselves but want to use their privileged access to a members mailing list and pressure others.
sorry but i think whichever player did this is a f*ckwit.

[Johnny Member]

I think they entitled to do both.

As long as its clear they're not representing the club, then fine.

[Johnny Member]

why???? the other side has the full resources of the victorian government at their disposal......a bit lop sided for mine.....

Yeah, but I don't see it as my obligation to try to balance the scales.

[plugger66]

I think they entitled to do both.

As long as its clear they're not representing the club, then fine.

If they go to the club coterie they are representing the club.

[SainterK]

I think they entitled to do both.

As long as its clear they're not representing the club, then fine.

If they go to the club coterie they are representing the club.

Yep