my alltime top 5

This unofficial St Kilda Saints fan forum is for people of all ages to chat Saints Footy and all posts must be respectful.

Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators

plugger66
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 50626
Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007 8:15pm
Location: oakleigh

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422422Post plugger66 »

HitTheBoundary wrote:
maverick wrote:As others have said, plugger was simply the best, his aggression and suspensions mask how truly special his talent was, best I've ever seen.
Missed the first six rounds in 91, then kicked 12, 10 and 12 in his first three games back after injury.

"Lockett's best season at St Kilda was in 1991, when he kicked 127 goals in 17 games, at an average of 7.47 goals per game, the highest average ever achieved in VFL/AFL history. "

In his 4th game that year Sheedy played about 3 players on him and he still got 4 goals and one of those backmen got BOG. 4 goals today just about gives you BOG. That ws a freak year. As good as any player has gone in the one year.


User avatar
Mr Magic
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12799
Joined: Fri 04 May 2007 9:38am
Has thanked: 812 times
Been thanked: 434 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422438Post Mr Magic »

The OtherThommo wrote:The Doc, then daylight. Played just over 100 games for us as a 5ft 10' CHF. All Aust Capt once, VC once, when they played Carnivals once every 4 odd years and only then had an AA side.

Holmesby wrote an early book where he named the Top 100. From memory had Doc 3, behind Stewie and Plugger. I had the argument with Russ, and he admitted he never had an answer to the question "How would Doc have gone if he'd played in the middle, and could Stewie have played at CHF anywhere near as well (they were around the same size).

Doc was the AFL king pin. When he went on WoS, everyone basically bowed in his presence. A wonderful footballer, a glorious man and the best leader a football club could want. Smart, sharp and truly respected.

He did some truly extraordinary things on field. None more so than his ability to play hurt (e.g. '66 finals series).

He stands alone in my mind. But, each to their own, of course.
Well said ToT (IMHO)
Nobody who didn't see him 'live' can ever truly appreciate what he was capable of doing on a football field.
And when the ground was wet/muddy, he was simply unstoppable.
He made champions of the game look like amateurs with the way he baulked past them and controlled a wet, greasy, heavy football.

Much like Plugger in his heyday, when opposition teams played St Kilda all they seemed to concentrate on was 'how do we stop Baldock?'

His skills were sublime.
His football nous was incredible
His 'presence' on the field was uplifting to both the team and the fans.

Plugger was a 'beast' (with plenty of skill)
Doc was a skilled surgeon who sliced and diced the opposition into submission.


saintspremiers
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 25303
Joined: Tue 01 Feb 2005 4:25pm
Location: Trump Tower
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 284 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422444Post saintspremiers »

HitTheBoundary wrote:
maverick wrote:As others have said, plugger was simply the best, his aggression and suspensions mask how truly special his talent was, best I've ever seen.
Missed the first six rounds in 91, then kicked 12, 10 and 12 in his first three games back after injury.

"Lockett's best season at St Kilda was in 1991, when he kicked 127 goals in 17 games, at an average of 7.47 goals per game, the highest average ever achieved in VFL/AFL history. "
Plugger was footys equivalent to Bradman IMO.


i am Melbourne Skies - sometimes Blue Skies, Grey Skies, even Partly Cloudy Skies.
whiskers3614
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4567
Joined: Thu 20 May 2010 11:49pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422446Post whiskers3614 »

saintspremiers wrote:
HitTheBoundary wrote:
maverick wrote:As others have said, plugger was simply the best, his aggression and suspensions mask how truly special his talent was, best I've ever seen.
Missed the first six rounds in 91, then kicked 12, 10 and 12 in his first three games back after injury.

"Lockett's best season at St Kilda was in 1991, when he kicked 127 goals in 17 games, at an average of 7.47 goals per game, the highest average ever achieved in VFL/AFL history. "
Plugger was footys equivalent to Bradman IMO.
I think the Bradman comparison is a little over the top........
Absolutely loved the big fella however
his stats are only slightly ahead of Dunstall and G. Ablett snr.
Sure, they both played in better sides than Plugger but it can also be argued that Dunstall created many more goals than Plugger.
Ablett's goals were only one feature of a completely freakish skill set.,


User avatar
borderbarry
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 6676
Joined: Mon 19 Apr 2004 11:22pm
Location: Wodonga

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422451Post borderbarry »

Born in 1940. Always followed the Saints. Cant limit it to 5 though.

1. Plugger. Could and did win games on his effort alone.
2. Harvs. What a great player. Now it only remains that he returns to coach us.
3. Ian Stewart. Great skills.
4. Verdun Howell. Will always be one of my favourites.
5. Nicky.. Our greatest indigenous player by a mile. but how can you leave out Autumn Leaves (Neil Roberts). Brownlow and 3rd in consecutive years. Great leader.,and Nick Roo


Toy Saint
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed 19 Aug 2009 10:32pm
Location: Del Mar, California
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 237 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422457Post Toy Saint »

Eastern wrote:Lockett

Stewart

Baldock

Riewoldt

Harvey

!!

Born 1956, agree with Eastern.

Plugger 1st, then daylight

Stewart, genius who won 3 Brownlows

Bladock, a freak, the most mecurial in his era.


User avatar
starsign
Club Player
Posts: 1854
Joined: Sat 12 Apr 2008 8:45am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 24 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422548Post starsign »

Baldock wizard!
Daylight
Plugger
Stewart Harvey couldn't split
Roo

Those couple who have Stewart in a set of five without including Baldock
couldn't have seen them play sorry!


User avatar
hungry for a premiership
Club Player
Posts: 856
Joined: Fri 08 Oct 2010 2:01am

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422556Post hungry for a premiership »

I was born in '82, and plugger is undoubtedly the best Ive seen, but judging on the consensus from this forum of everyone who is old enough to have seen the doc, he was, as unbelievably brilliant as lockett was, just that little bit better than even lockett. Man, I wish I could have seen him live!!!


"Too big, too strong, too whatever."
aaron82
Club Player
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 2:03pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 50 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422587Post aaron82 »

Going to leave Stewart and Baldock out of mine as it is very hard to comment on players you have never seen play.

1. Lockett - By a long way. Absolute freak, kept us alive onfield in the 80's. In my view had he played in the great Hawthorn teams he may have nudged 200 goal seasons. Kicked 10 on the full back of the century. The best of plugger I believe was the '91' elimination final against Geelong. If only he'd kicked straight early, never forget Bruce's call of "This is a celebration" as he snagged another in the second quarter.

2. Harvey - As someone mentioned earlier Harves ability to gut run in the days of no interchange were unparalled. Had more disposals than any player of the 90s and very rarely wasted one. Won a few EJ whitten medals as well. Also possessed the best baulk in the game. His finest game was the 05 final against Adelaide, he dragged us over the line that night and was brilliant.

3. Riewoldt - 5 best and fairest says it all in a very strong era for the club. Unfortunately injuries have prevented him from being an even bigger great of the game, I reckon the collarbone injury he suffered at the gabba took away some of his aerial dominance. His football in 04 as 21 year old was just unbelievable. He has then sustained that brilliance for the best part of 10 years. Kicking for goal has been his only downfall but an absolute champion player.

4. Hayes - Big game player, I wish he was around in the early 90s teams when Lockett was playing. Lenny would be my favorite saint, almost dragged us over the line in 2010 and in 09 such was his dominance Thompson had to send Bartel to bair hug him for 3 qtrs. Like Harves he very waste a possession and his tackling and hardness for the contest at times has been suicidal. Everyone loves Lenny and he is universally admired.

5. Loewe - I reckon big Stewie is the most underated player we have had over the last 20 years. Stewie kicked almost 600 goals playing a fair portion of his career with plugger. Kicked 90 in a season at full forward, and consistently took 10+ marks in conditions that were wet, muddy and freezing cold. Had a massive heart not to mention hands, Loewe's ability to go into the ruck was useful. One of his best perfomances was in the 2nd half of the 97 final against Brisbane when we were in trouble. He turned the game that day. He also won an EJ Whitten medal. Probably doesnt get the recognition due to Kernahan, Carey, Richo and others playing in his era but only Carey had his measure in my view.


and that's the bottom line
BigMart
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 13622
Joined: Sat 22 Mar 2008 6:06pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422589Post BigMart »

Obviously longevity is not considered

120, 130 and 190 games vs 380


bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18655
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1994 times
Been thanked: 873 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422616Post bigcarl »

I remember Stewart saying in an interview that Doc was the best player he'd seen by a long way and also remember Doc saying there was none better than Stewart. But later Doc said he'd never seen a player like Lockett, so he gave him the famous No. 4.

Hope that clears up the pecking order


bigcarl
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 18655
Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
Has thanked: 1994 times
Been thanked: 873 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422620Post bigcarl »

To make it even more clear cut, Harvs is on record as saying Lockett was the best he'd played with or against and I seem to remember Lockett saying similar of Banger


gringo
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 12421
Joined: Tue 24 Mar 2009 11:05pm
Location: St Kilda
Has thanked: 296 times
Been thanked: 55 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422622Post gringo »

aaron82 wrote:Going to leave Stewart and Baldock out of mine as it is very hard to comment on players you have never seen play.

1. Lockett - By a long way. Absolute freak, kept us alive onfield in the 80's. In my view had he played in the great Hawthorn teams he may have nudged 200 goal seasons. Kicked 10 on the full back of the century. The best of plugger I believe was the '91' elimination final against Geelong. If only he'd kicked straight early, never forget Bruce's call of "This is a celebration" as he snagged another in the second quarter.

2. Harvey - As someone mentioned earlier Harves ability to gut run in the days of no interchange were unparalled. Had more disposals than any player of the 90s and very rarely wasted one. Won a few EJ whitten medals as well. Also possessed the best baulk in the game. His finest game was the 05 final against Adelaide, he dragged us over the line that night and was brilliant.

3. Riewoldt - 5 best and fairest says it all in a very strong era for the club. Unfortunately injuries have prevented him from being an even bigger great of the game, I reckon the collarbone injury he suffered at the gabba took away some of his aerial dominance. His football in 04 as 21 year old was just unbelievable. He has then sustained that brilliance for the best part of 10 years. Kicking for goal has been his only downfall but an absolute champion player.

4. Hayes - Big game player, I wish he was around in the early 90s teams when Lockett was playing. Lenny would be my favorite saint, almost dragged us over the line in 2010 and in 09 such was his dominance Thompson had to send Bartel to bair hug him for 3 qtrs. Like Harves he very waste a possession and his tackling and hardness for the contest at times has been suicidal. Everyone loves Lenny and he is universally admired.

5. Loewe - I reckon big Stewie is the most underated player we have had over the last 20 years. Stewie kicked almost 600 goals playing a fair portion of his career with plugger. Kicked 90 in a season at full forward, and consistently took 10+ marks in conditions that were wet, muddy and freezing cold. Had a massive heart not to mention hands, Loewe's ability to go into the ruck was useful. One of his best perfomances was in the 2nd half of the 97 final against Brisbane when we were in trouble. He turned the game that day. He also won an EJ Whitten medal. Probably doesnt get the recognition due to Kernahan, Carey, Richo and others playing in his era but only Carey had his measure in my view.

Probably pretty similar to mine. I am too young for the Baldock era so have to just go on players I saw. Winmar went pretty well too though.


whiskers3614
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4567
Joined: Thu 20 May 2010 11:49pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422632Post whiskers3614 »

1)Has gone from all time to post 1980
2)Not one mention of Frawley. definite top 10 for mine
3)Bit more luck 2009/2010 and Goddard would be knocking on the door(big game performer)


maverick
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5026
Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 10:42am
Location: Bayside
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422679Post maverick »

whiskers3614 wrote:1)Has gone from all time to post 1980
2)Not one mention of Frawley. definite top 10 for mine
3)Bit more luck 2009/2010 and Goddard would be knocking on the door(big game performer)
How can you rate players you haven't seen?
Agree on spud and Bj though....


whiskers3614
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4567
Joined: Thu 20 May 2010 11:49pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422680Post whiskers3614 »

maverick wrote:
whiskers3614 wrote:1)Has gone from all time to post 1980
2)Not one mention of Frawley. definite top 10 for mine
3)Bit more luck 2009/2010 and Goddard would be knocking on the door(big game performer)
How can you rate players you haven't seen?
Agree on spud and Bj though....
Was just referring to thread title.


older saint
SS Life Member
Posts: 3385
Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm
Has thanked: 172 times
Been thanked: 519 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422702Post older saint »

Based on players I have seen and recall ( approx. 1978 - )

1. Lockett
2. Harvey
3. Roo
4. Winmar
5. Frawley
6. Young
7. Hayes
8. Burke
9. Loewe
10. Gehrig


Stephen Theodore
SS Hall of Fame
Posts: 2154
Joined: Mon 06 Aug 2007 1:53pm
Location: SE Queensland
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422737Post Stephen Theodore »

Am old enough to have watched Doc & Stewart plenty of times, so my top 5 is:

Doc

Plugger

Stewart

Reiwoldt

Harvey

Winmar (unlucky)


maverick
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5026
Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 10:42am
Location: Bayside
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422746Post maverick »

whiskers3614 wrote:
maverick wrote:
whiskers3614 wrote:1)Has gone from all time to post 1980
2)Not one mention of Frawley. definite top 10 for mine
3)Bit more luck 2009/2010 and Goddard would be knocking on the door(big game performer)
How can you rate players you haven't seen?
Agree on spud and Bj though....
Was just referring to thread title.
My all time top 5?
I don't know how you can or can't put in players you haven't seen.
What about Cazaly or Mcnamara then?


whiskers3614
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 4567
Joined: Thu 20 May 2010 11:49pm
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 315 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422750Post whiskers3614 »

How can you rate players you haven't seen?
Agree on spud and Bj though....[/quote]

Was just referring to thread title.[/quote]

My all time top 5?
I don't know how you can or can't put in players you haven't seen.
What about Cazaly or Mcnamara then?[/quote]
Guess we should do a couple of different ones'
1) say from 1960 onwards
2) another from 1980's onwards


User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422754Post stinger »

Mr Magic wrote:Oh Stinger, you are about to cop heaps when our resident expert sees this thread. :)

My 'best' list is
Doc - my favourite and best
Plugger - unparalleled by anybody else in his ability to draw a crowd
Harves - our best ever mid
Roo - revolutionised how CHF is played
Stewie - sublimely skilfull and courageous

We've forgotten, in this day of multiple midfielders having 30+ disposals in a game, how good Harves was when the game was played differently.
His ability to 'gut run' all day, and burn off his opposition when the opposition didn't have the ability to try and tag him with tandem players running on/off the bench , saw him as the premier midfielder of his time/type.

oh gee...is my face red...i completely forgot banger.....would probably rate him before lenny....just.... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422756Post stinger »

bigcarl wrote:To make it even more clear cut, Harvs is on record as saying Lockett was the best he'd played with or against and I seem to remember Lockett saying similar of Banger


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
User avatar
stinger
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 38126
Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 9:06pm
Location: Australia.

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422759Post stinger »

bigcarl wrote:To make it even more clear cut, Harvs is on record as saying Lockett was the best he'd played with or against and I seem to remember Lockett saying similar of Banger
lockett told me the day after kelly won the brownlow that banger was the best player he had seen....a few years later i heard him tell someone else that kelly was the best player he had played with......

i did take longivity into account when selecting my top 5 and as i have posted ..at this stage i rate banger at no 5 just ahead of lenny...whilst i am embaressed to say i completely forgot banger at the time......lenny by the time he retires my just rate higher...we will have to wait and see.....but i can't go past roo for lots of reasons as the saints greatest ever player......this year he is likely to surpass spud for our longest ever captain......he , unlike stewie and plugger has remained a saint and he has won more best and fairest than anyone else.....his only fault is his kicking but he has still won more games for us than the doc or stewart ever did........r


.everybody still loves lenny....and we always will

"Freedom of expression is the cornerstone of a free society,"

However, freedom of expression is not encouraged in certain forums.
BigMart
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 13622
Joined: Sat 22 Mar 2008 6:06pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422888Post BigMart »

Harves

More touches than any other.... Average and total

More BOGs than any other...

Best playmaker.... %of passions to a team mate would be high, score involvements a ridiculous number

Best individual finals game... Vs Adelaide 2005 at 33 yo

More AAs than any other... Best representative player....

More top 3 B&Fs than any other...

More possessions in a season than any other...

BOGs more than 300 games and 18 yrs apart

Most loyal player....

Hard to believe he is underrated..... Gut runner my arse.... Elite midfielder for best part of 20 years and 380 games


maverick
Saintsational Legend
Posts: 5026
Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 10:42am
Location: Bayside
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 93 times

Re: my alltime top 5

Post: # 1422895Post maverick »

BigMart wrote:Harves

More touches than any other.... Average and total

More BOGs than any other...

Best playmaker.... %of passions to a team mate would be high, score involvements a ridiculous number

Best individual finals game... Vs Adelaide 2005 at 33 yo

More AAs than any other... Best representative player....

More top 3 B&Fs than any other...

More possessions in a season than any other...

BOGs more than 300 games and 18 yrs apart

Most loyal player....

Hard to believe he is underrated..... Gut runner my arse.... Elite midfielder for best part of 20 years and 380 games
Could not agree more, how quickly we forget.
As good as Lenny has been, Harvs is a rung or two above IMO.
Only rate Plugger above him, that I have seen
Harv's game in 2005 in the QF and BJ's game in 2010 GF1, are the two best individual games I have seen.
I know a few of plugger's would clearly rate too, but those two performances were on the biggest stage and such team games...


Post Reply