Good kids on our list now are...

[lloyd21]

Rejects are you kidding Longer was the Captain of vic metro gun .

Savage played 14 games last year in premiership team emergency for Grand Final got brownlow votes

Bruce (Gws) they offered him 3 year contract to stay.

Lee was going to get drafted by Fremantle they wanted him . Stkfc only got him because of deal with Gws .

They are not duds.

[maverick]

Man City have the best team, pound for pound in the EPL and it doesn't work for them…
Arsenal spend 2/3 of stuff all and are on top…

Mesut Ozil cost £42.5m. I'm not sure your analogy works!

How much do you think man city have spent in the last 2 years?

[saintly]

Every year people say the youngsters "look likely" or "show plenty" and they maintain that line until they invariably get delisted. The truth is that for this group we're not going to know, realistically, how good any of them are for another few seasons. There's no standouts on that list in the original post; there are no players ala Riewoldt that you knew from the word go would be superstars. If one becomes a gun, half a dozen more become regulars in the team and the rest get delisted that's probably a good outcome.

I am worried that we are putting a lot of eggs in the "rejects from other clubs" basket. Longer? Savage? These are known quantities that are known to be not very good. Likewise with Hickey and Lee. We seem to waste a lot of highish draft picks on guys we think have improvement left in them, when we may as well just develop our own talent from the national draft. I certainly hope there is improvement left in these guys and a change of scenery is all they need to step up the next level - but the strategy worries me.

its not as if these guys are 25-27. These are young guys. and from what Elshaug said, they had their eyes on Bruce and Delaney for over a year. As to longer, he is top 8 draft pick only 2 years ago.

I don't consider them rejects at all which is why we paid a bit for them

[Jacks Back]

Man City have the best team, pound for pound in the EPL and it doesn't work for them…
Arsenal spend 2/3 of stuff all and are on top…

The best players don't always work well together, you always need a balance…salary cap will even things out in 4-5 years time….

Saints and other vic teams need to work hard on the go home factor when GWS and GC move mid way up the table….2014 & 2015 trade periods will be vital….

We just recruited two interstate players who may want to go home too.

[maverick]

Man City have the best team, pound for pound in the EPL and it doesn't work for them…
Arsenal spend 2/3 of stuff all and are on top…

The best players don't always work well together, you always need a balance…salary cap will even things out in 4-5 years time….

Saints and other vic teams need to work hard on the go home factor when GWS and GC move mid way up the table….2014 & 2015 trade periods will be vital….

We just recruited two interstate players who may want to go home too.

Yes, but they will get a go, that's the difference...

[SaintWodonga]

Great read on the new recruits:
http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/st-kil ... 6766313883

"Boasting three picks inside top-20 for the first time in 10 years, the Saints also put a high emphasis on stringent character assessments...."

[Devilhead]

Billings was not my first choice.... Kelly was... He was gone?

It came down to billings, Scharenburg, bontempelli, Aish

I rate Scharenburg the best player, but we don't need another 6'3" rebounder... We have 10 already... And the gap is minimal
Aish the best mid... But he'll be back in SA in a few years at the Crows
Billings the most talented, but not a midfielder.... Almost identical to Nathan Brown... He's clever and will be A Grade at worst
Bontempelli has the biggest upside but is the only one of the group who could flop... We can't afford this pick to bust... His numbers are erratic and really a bit low for a top 5 pick... But his potential to be a David Mundy is there

Well it seems that you have conveniently covered all your bases there

Except Boyd of course

[St Ick]

GWS have that many top picks the opportunity may never be there for some to build an AFL career. Careers may be ruined due to this model created by Vlad.

This is a fantastic comment which got overlooked. I see Kelly being a similar player to others on the list such as Scully and Whitfield, his career could actually be ruined by already having similar types, alternatively he could look to move elsewhere in a year or two, like Tyson did. Why would the want McCarthy? With Boyd, Patton and Cameron, not to mention Thomlinson, Jacksh etc

The talls on their list are crazy, and they just added three more key position players, they also fought tooth and nail to keep Bruce. Players will see the writing on the wall, and we've got to pounce when they do.

[cwrcyn]

You can't have more than 22 players out there. And with GWS and Gold Coast having about a dozen players on their lists who would get a game anywhere else, things should even out over time as players leave for better opportunities.

[bergholt]

Rejects are you kidding Longer was the Captain of vic metro gun .

Andrew McQualter was the captain of Vic Country.

Savage played 14 games last year in premiership team emergency for Grand Final got brownlow votes

Robert Eddy played 10 games in a side that only lost two, and played in a few Grand Finals.

Bruce (Gws) they offered him 3 year contract to stay.

Ashley Sampi looked a pretty good player at 21.

Lee was going to get drafted by Fremantle they wanted him . Stkfc only got him because of deal with Gws .

Aaron Fiora was going to get drafted by someone else if Richmond didn't pick him up.

They are not duds.

Why not? I don't understand your logic.

[spert]

A bunch of young players with potential doesn't mean a lot unless they can take the next step and be molded into a winning team. I reckon the young guys who got through 2013 under Watters will practically be starting again in 2014 under Richo, and players like Ross, Newnes, Siposs and a couple of others will be under the pump to go the next step, as there will be more competition for senior places. A good situation to be in.

[Spinner]

We are starting to assemble plenty

22 Tom Hickey.... Not so sure, but improved in 2013
21 Arryn Sippos.... Plenty in 2012
20 Seb Ross.... Signs in 2013
22 Tom Lee .... Showed a bit in 2013
21 Daniel Markworth.... Sign at Sandy in 2012
20 Jack Newnes .... Showed plenty
22 Dylan Roberton .... Excellent 2013
19 Spencer White .... Some teasing at Sandy
20 Jimmy Webster ... Impressive in 2013
19 Brodie Murdoch.... Signs in 2013
19 Nath Wright..... Super impressive
19 Josh Saunders .... Scrapper
20 Darren Minchington.... Likely
19 Lewis Pierce ..... 202cm
21 Tom Curran ...... Worker
22 Shane Savage .... 50 gamer
20 Billy Longer ....... Top ten DP
21 Josh Bruce ....... Key Defender
18 Jack Billings ..... Elite junior
18 Luke Dunstan ..... Blue Chip junior
18 Blake Acres ....... Looks a versatile talent

That's over 20 player under 23

There are lots of 187-190 cm players.... 3 Ruckman ..... A number of mids and KPPs


Just a pity GWS and GC have an arsenal of kids better than have ever been assembled.... Believe me

I thought the post was good!

[lloyd21]

Rejects are you kidding Longer was the Captain of vic metro gun .

Savage played 14 games last year in premiership team emergency for Grand Final got brownlow votes

Bruce (Gws) they offered him 3 year contract to stay.

Lee was going to get drafted by Fremantle they wanted him . Stkfc only got him because of deal with Gws .

They are not duds.

Logic is pretty clear you recruit young players who have been in system for short while who have already
done some development elsewhere who seek the opportunity .
Sydney Swans have been doing it for years and everyone to a man on here has been saying it
Kennedy Mumford Mattner McGlynn

We got Roberton same way as I remember some people disagreed with

[The OtherThommo]

Man City have the best team, pound for pound in the EPL and it doesn't work for them…
Arsenal spend 2/3 of stuff all and are on top…

Mesut Ozil cost £42.5m. I'm not sure your analogy works!

In the last 5 years Man City and Chelsea have spent a net 1.3 Billion+ (quid or Euros, can't recall), while the Gunners have made a net 20 million profit from player transfers over the same period. That's an awfully big difference when one looks at the table.

Mesut Ozil is the Gunners most expensive purchase ever, by around 26 million (from memory the previous was Reyes at 17-18 mill). Wenger has had to manage through the period where the Gunners were tied to restrictive finance deals to pay off the building of Emirates Stadium. To do that he's plucked mostly kids or lesser headliners and developed them into top liners. Man City and Chelsea have spent bucket loads of oil and oligarch money.

Thus far in '13/'14 the table suggests Maverick's point is well made.

[bergholt]

Logic is pretty clear you recruit young players who have been in system for short while who have already
done some development elsewhere who seek the opportunity .

Jesse Smith? Plapp? Pattison? Brooks? Watts? Tony Delaney? Ackland? Capuano? Polo? Attard? Damien Ryan? Stevie Lawrence? Birss? Peake? Gamble? Colm Begley? Fiora? Charlie Gardiner? McGough? Allan Murray? Nick Stone? Knobel? Penny? Dennis-Lane?

It's not exactly a never-fail strategy. Some of this year's pickups will fail just like those guys did.

[St Ick]

I couldn't understand the Roberton drafting either at the time

As for our 'duds', they are all under 25, and all were in demand.

GWS fought to keep Bruce, not sure how the Sampi comparison comes into it.

Longer was top 10 two years ago and is going to be a fantastic player, his preseason last year showed he has a lot of promise.

Delaney fills a need, was great in the VFL last year, won't be a star but means others can play in position and develop in the right way.

Savage consistently kicked bags in the VFL, he is still young, how many his age on our list have played 50? If Savage was doing at Sandy this year what he did for BH he would've been rated much higher by us all, in fact, I haven't met with a Hawks supporter who actually hasn't rated him.

Hickey and Lee have shown glimpses, and are developing talls.

All of these players are young, have considerable upside and I can't understand the not very good comment.

[St Ick]

Logic is pretty clear you recruit young players who have been in system for short while who have already
done some development elsewhere who seek the opportunity .

Jesse Smith? Plapp? Pattison? Brooks? Watts? Tony Delaney? Ackland? Capuano? Polo? Attard? Damien Ryan? Stevie Lawrence? Birss? Peake? Gamble? Colm Begley? Fiora? Charlie Gardiner? McGough? Allan Murray? Nick Stone? Knobel? Penny? Dennis-Lane?

It's not exactly a never-fail strategy. Some of this year's pickups will fail just like those guys did.

Some wins, mostly losses. But the only draft for needs player this year was Delaney, and was the alternative to get no one like last year? The other three, Savage, Longer and Bruce have done nothing to indicate they won't be excellent players. The important thing too is that these guys, as with Roberton, aren't rejects, they were very much in demand from their previous clubs and others before they nominated us.

We used to go for mature aged role players with lots of question marks, that is completely different from the past two years trading.

[BigMart]

Don't compare soccer to AFL it's not a good comparison....

The sheer number of people who play soccer at the highest level means the comparison is futile.

The money difference between players, doesn't always equate to talent difference.... Whilst Man C have splashed more money to lure players, are they a more talented team? Obviously not?

Marion Brando once said to a young actor
"Boy, don't confuse the amount in your pay cheque, with you're amount of acting talent"

[plugger66]

Logic is pretty clear you recruit young players who have been in system for short while who have already
done some development elsewhere who seek the opportunity .

Jesse Smith? Plapp? Pattison? Brooks? Watts? Tony Delaney? Ackland? Capuano? Polo? Attard? Damien Ryan? Stevie Lawrence? Birss? Peake? Gamble? Colm Begley? Fiora? Charlie Gardiner? McGough? Allan Murray? Nick Stone? Knobel? Penny? Dennis-Lane?

It's not exactly a never-fail strategy. Some of this year's pickups will fail just like those guys did.

Some wins, mostly losses. But the only draft for needs player this year was Delaney, and was the alternative to get no one like last year? The other three, Savage, Longer and Bruce have done nothing to indicate they won't be excellent players. The important thing too is that these guys, as with Roberton, aren't rejects, they were very much in demand from their previous clubs and others before they nominated us.

We used to go for mature aged role players with lots of question marks, that is completely different from the past two years trading.

The 3 players you mentioned have done nothing yet to say they will be excellent players either. Some of them will fail and some maybe like kennedy. Either kennedy will do me.

[Richter]

Man City have the best team, pound for pound in the EPL and it doesn't work for them…
Arsenal spend 2/3 of stuff all and are on top…

Mesut Ozil cost £42.5m. I'm not sure your analogy works!

In the last 5 years Man City and Chelsea have spent a net 1.3 Billion+ (quid or Euros, can't recall), while the Gunners have made a net 20 million profit from player transfers over the same period. That's an awfully big difference when one looks at the table.

Mesut Ozil is the Gunners most expensive purchase ever, by around 26 million (from memory the previous was Reyes at 17-18 mill). Wenger has had to manage through the period where the Gunners were tied to restrictive finance deals to pay off the building of Emirates Stadium. To do that he's plucked mostly kids or lesser headliners and developed them into top liners. Man City and Chelsea have spent bucket loads of oil and oligarch money.

Thus far in '13/'14 the table suggests Maverick's point is well made.

Not sure I agree with that. Arsenal are yet to win the title this year. And the last time they won a title was in 2004. Since then Chelsea have won 3 times, Man City once and Man Utd 6 times.

[BigMart]

Not sure why Soccerhas anything to do with this?

If its about cash

Tom Scully is one of the best players in the AFL, with Callum Ward

[ace]

All the kids on our list are good.
Until they are targetted by girls hoping to hook up and catch a footy hunk.
That is when things go bad.

Leave our boys alone you husseys.
You can have them after they have completed their playing careers providing you produce lots of father-son picks.

[SaintPav]

I try to think about where the club sits in the whole comp. I reckon it gives you a realistic viewpoint and a better understanding of the team comparatively....

There is no denying what the AFL have gifted GWS and GC

To put it on perspective .... We have a few top ten DPs on the list.... They have double figure numbers which include plenty of #1s and 2s

Of course they have gifted them dp.

Why wouldn't they?

They are investing over a quarter of a billion on these two teams. It's a massive, massive investment.

[BigMart]

Because there are 16 other teams in the comp

And the comp should be fair

[SaintPav]

What is should be and what it actually is are two different things entirely.