St Kilda, a club in crisis. The Age

[Bono]

Like her or hate her, Caro is spot on with this article and where the club it as. As Brisbane did, we have sacked a coach thinking we will get who we want (Choco). Brisbane didnt get their man (Roos) and had a carton full of egg on their face. Lets hope Williams says yes. Then at least all we will need to do is find a CEO and a few more coaches to assits the main man. Cut through all the crap and seriously think of what StKFC has going for them at the moment. I can only think of two things: Lenny Hayes and Nick Riewoldt. After getting a coach, number one priority should be to get back to Moorabbin, and get a Reserves team in the VFL named St Kilda and playing at Moorabbin. Its a pity the AFL hate Grant Thomas, and unfortunately that is self inflicted by him. He would make a great CEO for the club.

[cwrcyn]

I think the reality is that hardly any AFL clubs are run in a totally professional manner. When you win games or make money, all is well, and nobody asks questions (See Collingwood 2103 - CEO quits, senior players sent packing, unrest in the playing group surrounding the coach - sound familiar?). When you start losing games and you struggle for cash, the vultures (journos) start circling. It's the way its alway been. And when you're a club like St Kilda, the vultures circle a little more often.

[twirlyhair]

The people on hear that continue to back caro are delusional... what has she said in this artical that she hasnt said in her last 55 anti saints articals and some of the words she uses to describe the club! How can some of you continue to just want to cop this and say things like she not all that far from the truth? Who cares if she is we all know the problems and all she is doing is trying to take us further down and all some of you can say is thankyou may i have another!!! Have some bloody respect for the club and stand up against this crap for crying out loud!!!!

Supporters that show blind faith are the delusional ones. Don't turn the blow torch on Caro, turn it on the club, our club that needs supporters who will keep those in charge honest. Refer to the points that Caro has raised and discuss them, for Caro will still be here writing articles for which she is paid to do so. As a 25+ year social club member, I want to know about the financials of the club, and how we have handled this. I want to know as I have put my hard earned into the club. Through poor decision making have they wasted my money? Our money? I want to know! Our club will not turn the corner if we as supporters simply back the club and all that they do without question. I begged people for money for our club during the SOS campaign in the 90s, will we be forced to do that again soon? And if we are, it will be the fault of the management of our club, not Caro.

[Cairnsman]

who cares, when is round 1?

[stinger]

And she continues to go on and on and on and on.

I really don't understand this...."Mark Williams remains favourite for the job and while he is not certain yet to get it, he remains no certainty to take it. Still, Williams agreed to be interviewed and appears to have been at the top of the club's wish list".

If Williams is desperate to coach why wouldnt he be serious about it. Does he really want to waste everyones time?

You sound surprised. You shouldn't. It was never as simple as the leaks suggested.

She didn't say Williams wasn't "serious" about it. She is suggesting he has reservations. Maybe he hasn't drunk the bathwater. Maybe he's concerned about the same hierachy still being in place.

This was entirely predictable, albeit not as simple as "it's all Watters fault".

Sounds like the AFL is going to decide the new CEO.

As ever, I remain very concerned.

+1

..but god she can twist a story ...and a knife......

[Saintmatt]

Love her or hate her (well, actually, forget the love bit), she's probably very close to the mark ,as she always is.

It gives me no joy to read it, but we have to face the reality that we're in a financial pickle. We have been so for 40 years, and this has been the single most troubling issue for our club.

Westaway was no Rod Butterss, we know that, but it appears that he was asleep at the wheel or simply did not have the time or energy to due the job effectively . Nettlefold was up to his eye balls in it, and working 80 hours a week in an organisation that is scratching around for money after losing sponsors, members, and other significant revenues due to the actions of a psychopathic 16 year old, managing the transition to a new facility that players and supporters won't embrace, and stuck in a stadium deal that provides almost zero income while other clubs rake in the cash at the MCG, is an unenviable position to be in. He may not have performed his role to the highest ability, but I think most of us would have struggled with that kind of load.

When clubs are losing money, clinging on desperately, CEOs and boards take their eye off the football side of things. That very squeaky wheel of looming insolvency is a distraction that chews up most of their time and energy, and when a coach starts causing ripples within the organisation, it's one more load that the CEO can do without. I'm not saying that the CEO and the board couldn't have done better, but I understand their daily grind and the massive financial hurdles in their way. We don't have a pile poker machines that pump out endless supplies of cash. Melbourne make about 6 million dollars more than us from the pokies each year, and they make at least the same amount each year from their stadium deal. And they got to this point much sooner than us. When you're 12 million dollars a year behind Melbourne in guaranteed revenues, you know you've got a tough gig.

No doubt, we're in a predicament

That's a terrificly errudite post. Well done. Our leadership is appalling. It's funny - footy clubs hire Leading Teams to deal with their players. Perhaps we'd have been well advised to have them deal with our Admin.

[stinger]

A poster a month or so ago mentioned Pelchen's absences. If we were so dysfunctional it was amazing that we won a few games, and got close in quite a few others.

I'm usually not a Caro fan, but that article has a ring of truth about it. Westaway was an absent Prez and I'm not sure what Nettlefold was doing. No wonder Watters decided to run his own race. A real lack of leadership in the Admin of the club.

Hopefully we get a good CEO, and that Williams does come and get stuck in. The players deserve it, not mention us supporters.

why would watters going mid week to nsw to recruit a potential key backman.....who we subsequently recruited be a plank in his eventual sacking ffs..????..she knew he went....it's been widely reported...so she somehow needed to weave it into the story...what an old cow she is....

[stinger]

What I would like to see in say, 4 year's time (sooner would be better):

Mark Williams as the St. Kilda coach proudly standing on the dais at the MCG with the premiership cup in his hand: " Caroline Wilson: You were wrong!"

i would prefe r"up yours caro"

[stinger]

Yikes...every feel-bad story about the Saints from the last 12 months all rolled into one story,
neatly threaded together into the argument that it stems from a core dysfunction.
Sort of a "Best Of Caro Kicking The Saints".
I guess some of it's true, some of it is opinion polished into fact, some of it looks like hearsay
presented next to fact so it looks "fact-ish".
Wouldn't mind seeing the financials she writes about - at the AGM perhaps?

it's just a bloody wonder that she didn't try rope in the milne rape case along with lovett's and the schoolgirl saga......but give her time...maybe tomorrow.....

[Eastern]

I look at what might be her motivation to write & sensationalise this article at this time. The ONLY thing that I can come up with is that "Choco Williams looks likely to get the job as St Kilda coach and if he does it will cause some disruption at her beloved Richmond". This is her second whack this week. Isn't it amazing that consistency & total honesty don't exist in Caro's world. Remember the Duthie saga that she went on and on about, even AFTER she knew that most of what she had written and was still writing was nothing more than lies from Duthie that she, Deryn Hinch and Anthony Dowsley chose to sensationalise. All this but we read precious little from her regarding the exploits of Dustin Martin, Jake King, Daniel Connors etc !!

[stinger]

I look at what might be her motivation to write & sensationalise this article at this time. The ONLY thing that I can come up with is that "Choco Williams looks likely to get the job as St Kilda coach and if he does it will cause some disruption at her beloved Richmond". This is her second whack this week. Isn't it amazing that consistency & total honesty don't exist in Caro's world. Remember the Duthie saga that she went on and on about, even AFTER she knew that most of what she had written and was still writing was nothing more than lies from Duthie that she, Deryn Hinch and Anthony Dowsley chose to sensationalise. All this but we read precious little from her regarding the exploits of Dustin Martin, Jake King, Daniel Connors etc !!

well said...and all true....

[Eastern]

On another issue;

Caro quoted some of the events of Ahmed Saad's Drug Tribunal appearance. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CLOSED HEARING.

If Caro is receiving classified info from this hearing, one of a number of things should happen

1. The AFL should investigate the source of the leak and take appropriate action (sack them), or

2. Cancel Caro's AFL Media accreditation until she reveals her source

!!

[satchmo]

On another issue;

Caro quoted some of the events of Ahmed Saad's Drug Tribunal appearance. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CLOSED HEARING.

If Caro is receiving classified info from this hearing, one of a number of things should happen

1. The AFL should investigate the source of the leak and take appropriate action (sack them), or

2. Cancel Caro's AFL Media accreditation until she reveals her source

!!

That question needs to be asked. Get on to it Eastern!

[stinger]

On another issue;

Caro quoted some of the events of Ahmed Saad's Drug Tribunal appearance. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CLOSED HEARING.

If Caro is receiving classified info from this hearing, one of a number of things should happen

1. The AFL should investigate the source of the leak and take appropriate action (sack them), or

2. Cancel Caro's AFL Media accreditation until she reveals her source

!!

seeing that the afl is one of her sources, that would cause a few

[saintsRrising]

A few weeks back in a thread I posted that Westaway had 'destroyed" the Saints. Now while I deliberately used colorful language to prompt discussion, the fact is that under his watch as president that the club has had a disastrous period. The Grand Finals just blinded many as to his ineptness. The right, right....was actually wrong, wrong.

A period with a list that played in 2 Grand Finals (3 if you count the draw) should have been an era where the club was set up financially. Instead our chance to secure our future was frittered away by ineptness.

Under his watch fans have been disenfranchised (ie Social club Members for one treated like rubbish), a well regarded coach lost as they dithered on his contact allowing Freo to swoop, a new coach allowed to run rampant, a lack of sponsors, contininued off -field turmoil, appointing an old-boy as CEO.

The club is in disarray, and in that thrust of the article caro is quite correct. Though I disagree wit her comments on this years trading, but Caro has always been a lot stronger on the off-field shenanigans, that on football nouse.

Westaway was a failure as a leader. Indeed the rumours are, and have always been that he was only ever a puppet for others on the Board, and if so that is no way to run a football club. Westaway swept into power with Footy First, and began an era of Offield Last.

So while yes Watters was a problem, there is a lot more at the Saints that needs fixing. Summers needs to step up to the plate big time. The Board needs a clean out, and we need an A-Grade CEO.

There has been some promising talk in recent weeks, but we need a lot, lot more than promising talk.

[Munga]

I like Caro.
In this case she needs something to write about to fill columns. She tends to dwell on controversy and negativity at clubs, and won't look at the good things we are embarking on. Pres, CEO, coach, new players should all be better than before.

Who is responsible for the Docklands stadium deal? And how much longer are we there for?

[SemperFidelis]

If the AFL appoints a CEO for us, that will be a very good thing. Then they'll see the real challenges which face our club. They may not trust our current administration, but they'll trust one of their own, and when one of their own starts to explain the extreme difficulties, they'll have to listen, rather than assuming less than optimal practice. It can only be good for us.

I'm with you this morning, unpronounceable cwrcyn. Great posts. Hopefully Gillon McLachlan is using his influence on this one to get the right person. Or persons. If Harley is part of that package, I'll be happy with it.

I find it enormously concerning that the both the magnitude and seemingly structural nature of our financial woes have been kept in house for so long. We can't blame everything on a dodgy stadium deal. Who knows who or what is really to blame. However, I'm not really sure that it is helpful for any of us to keep potting Westaway (in his voluntary role) or Nettlefold (who clearly had more than your average challenges as a CEO to deal with). Whatever their shortcomings, and they may have been many, they are both gone and we have to move forward and find the most competent CEO, Senior Coach and other replacement staff that we are able to.

Imagine being the CEO who gets to finally turn this ship around. It's a challenge, but it's far from impossible, and it's a career making opportunity. We've survived 140 years by the skin of our teeth; I can't help feeling that this time we might finally be in a position to get it together. Almost rock bottom with most of the skeletons out of the closet (and plastered all over the media) whether we like them or not.

Fortius quo fidelius. We need the loyalty at the moment, otherwise there's no hope of finding the strength.

[Johnny Member]

I think the reality is that hardly any AFL clubs are run in a totally professional manner. When you win games or make money, all is well, and nobody asks questions (See Collingwood 2103 - CEO quits, senior players sent packing, unrest in the playing group surrounding the coach - sound familiar?). When you start losing games and you struggle for cash, the vultures (journos) start circling. It's the way its alway been. And when you're a club like St Kilda, the vultures circle a little more often.

Absolutely agree.

[SemperFidelis]

A poster a month or so ago mentioned Pelchen's absences.

I can't find this post, unfortunately. Does anyone know anything about this issue? Are we talking about unusually timed mid-season holidays (the Demetriou approach), unexplained no shows during the regular work day, or something else?

Obviously Caro snuck it into her piece without further particulars to round out the "rabble" argument, but is it a real issue, or perhaps something emerging from the Watters camp?

[magnifisaint]

I look at what might be her motivation to write & sensationalise this article at this time. The ONLY thing that I can come up with is that "Choco Williams looks likely to get the job as St Kilda coach and if he does it will cause some disruption at her beloved Richmond". This is her second whack this week. Isn't it amazing that consistency & total honesty don't exist in Caro's world. Remember the Duthie saga that she went on and on about, even AFTER she knew that most of what she had written and was still writing was nothing more than lies from Duthie that she, Deryn Hinch and Anthony Dowsley chose to sensationalise. All this but we read precious little from her regarding the exploits of Dustin Martin, Jake King, Daniel Connors etc !!

+1

[ozrulestrace]

On another issue;

Caro quoted some of the events of Ahmed Saad's Drug Tribunal appearance. THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO BE A CLOSED HEARING.

If Caro is receiving classified info from this hearing, one of a number of things should happen

1. The AFL should investigate the source of the leak and take appropriate action (sack them), or

2. Cancel Caro's AFL Media accreditation until she reveals her source

!!

Good point and raises valid questions about Ahmad's privacy in this situation. Couldn't possibly invade Dustin Martin 's privacy in the same way.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

This is the muck that is written by Caro day after day after day when your club looks like disrupting her precious Tigers by taking away Chocco Williams! The Coach, CEO and President have all gone she can move along now...

[saint66au]

A few weeks back in a thread I posted that Westaway had 'destroyed" the Saints. Now while I deliberately used colorful language to prompt discussion, the fact is that under his watch as president that the club has had a disastrous period. The Grand Finals just blinded many as to his ineptness. The right, right....was actually wrong, wrong.

A period with a list that played in 2 Grand Finals (3 if you count the draw) should have been an era where the club was set up financially. Instead our chance to secure our future was frittered away by ineptness.

Under his watch fans have been disenfranchised (ie Social club Members for one treated like rubbish), a well regarded coach lost as they dithered on his contact allowing Freo to swoop, a new coach allowed to run rampant, a lack of sponsors, contininued off -field turmoil, appointing an old-boy as CEO.

The club is in disarray, and in that thrust of the article caro is quite correct. Though I disagree wit her comments on this years trading, but Caro has always been a lot stronger on the off-field shenanigans, that on football nouse.

Westaway was a failure as a leader. Indeed the rumours are, and have always been that he was only ever a puppet for others on the Board, and if so that is no way to run a football club. Westaway swept into power with Footy First, and began an era of Offield Last.

So while yes Watters was a problem, there is a lot more at the Saints that needs fixing. Summers needs to step up to the plate big time. The Board needs a clean out, and we need an A-Grade CEO.

There has been some promising talk in recent weeks, but we need a lot, lot more than promising talk.

Playing in multiple Grand Finals doesn't make you money.....winning them does.

Ask anyone involved in the corporate side of a Club. Costs a fortune to stage all the functions etc associated with GFs. Paid back many times I we in memberships merch etc if you win.. If you lose? Nope. Play three straight without winning?? Disaster.

[dragit]

Very dramatic Caro - it's been a rough patch, not sure there's a crisis,

The backhander about our trade period shows how biased this article is, not one mention of the players brought in or picks received.

I like Caro, but that article is pretty vacuous.

[stinger]

Ask anyone involved in the corporate side of a Club. Costs a fortune to stage all the functions etc associated with GFs. Paid back many times I we in memberships merch etc if you win.. If you lose? Nope. Play three straight without winning?? Disaster.

got something right for a change... only joking....