St Kilda, a club in crisis. The Age

[kosifantutti]

Enjoy

On Wednesday night at his anti-doping hearing, tearful young Saint Ahmed Saad made it clear to a specially convened AFL tribunal how shattered he was to find himself at the crossroads of his once-promising football career and how shocked he remained at his fateful error. It was a moving speech and it seemed clear to all concerned that Saad was not a deliberate drug cheat.
Still, the unfortunate 23-year-old faces at least another season in the AFL wilderness and that is a best-case scenario. His plight has come about due to a lack of communication and discipline and a general slackness which has permeated his club from the bottom to the top.
Saad is one sad symbol of a club in crisis.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/s ... z2k3qZJENo

[magnifisaint]

And she continues to go on and on and on and on.

I really don't understand this...."Mark Williams remains favourite for the job and while he is not certain yet to get it, he remains no certainty to take it. Still, Williams agreed to be interviewed and appears to have been at the top of the club's wish list".

If Williams is desperate to coach why wouldnt he be serious about it. Does he really want to waste everyones time?

[The OtherThommo]

And she continues to go on and on and on and on.

I really don't understand this...."Mark Williams remains favourite for the job and while he is not certain yet to get it, he remains no certainty to take it. Still, Williams agreed to be interviewed and appears to have been at the top of the club's wish list".

If Williams is desperate to coach why wouldnt he be serious about it. Does he really want to waste everyones time?

You sound surprised. You shouldn't. It was never as simple as the leaks suggested.

She didn't say Williams wasn't "serious" about it. She is suggesting he has reservations. Maybe he hasn't drunk the bathwater. Maybe he's concerned about the same hierachy still being in place.

This was entirely predictable, albeit not as simple as "it's all Watters fault".

Sounds like the AFL is going to decide the new CEO.

As ever, I remain very concerned.

[st.byron]

It's a pretty bleak picture of incompetence she paints.
I'm sure there's some truth in it all, but she does tend to exagggerate.

For example,
"If the Saints' players present as an undisciplined lot, they were not exactly following a great off-field example. Even Watters' sacking has come at a time when the appointment of his replacement will potentially anger and significantly inconvenience a rival club. Still it seems the alternative - keeping the coach - was unacceptable."


Now an appointment of Williams is an inconvenience to Richmond and something we should be criticised for. F*** off.

[The OtherThommo]

It's a pretty bleak picture of incompetence she paints.
I'm sure there's some truth in it all, but she does tend to exagggerate.

For example,
"If the Saints' players present as an undisciplined lot, they were not exactly following a great off-field example. Even Watters' sacking has come at a time when the appointment of his replacement will potentially anger and significantly inconvenience a rival club. Still it seems the alternative - keeping the coach - was unacceptable."


Now an appointment of Williams is an inconvenience to Richmond and something we should be criticised for. F*** off.

That's small beer in the article St.B. Yeah, she's preaching her Daddy's line, but it really is insignificant in the context of the article.

We fed her the superficial stuff, she bought in, now she's casting a wider net. 'Twas inevitable.

But, hey, she's still carrying the "Watters was a problem" line. Only, now, she's suggesting the problems are wider than a middle manager.

Well, blow me down, what a f***ing shock.

[Verdun66]

A poster a month or so ago mentioned Pelchen's absences. If we were so dysfunctional it was amazing that we won a few games, and got close in quite a few others.

I'm usually not a Caro fan, but that article has a ring of truth about it. Westaway was an absent Prez and I'm not sure what Nettlefold was doing. No wonder Watters decided to run his own race. A real lack of leadership in the Admin of the club.

Hopefully we get a good CEO, and that Williams does come and get stuck in. The players deserve it, not mention us supporters.

[st.byron]

That's small beer in the article St.B. Yeah, she's preaching her Daddy's line, but it really is insignificant in the context of the article.

We fed her the superficial stuff, she bought in, now she's casting a wider net. 'Twas inevitable.

But, hey, she's still carrying the "Watters was a problem" line. Only, now, she's suggesting the problems are wider than a middle manager.

Well, blow me down, what a f***ing shock.

Yeah it seemed like a kind of weak afterthought to the guts of the article. Why bother putting it in? Speculative, tenuous links to bolster the picture she's trying to paint.

It does seem though, if she is to be believed, that the previous administration including Westaway, Nettlefold and Watters was very dysfunctional.

[Zed]

So the positives are the previous 'asleep at the wheel' president has been replaced by a man who can see the wood from the trees, the dysfunctional coach is gone and we are clearly focused on building a list that will be competitive in 3 years from now , not lost in the wilderness a its veterans retire and limited talent comes through to replace them.

But of course Caro is just is a nasty bitter person hell bent on pigeon holing us as the leagues mis- fits.

[Hurricane]

More hard to read, thinly veiled, doom and gloom, emotive adjective packed, bulls*** pot shots disguised as an article from Caro?

Does she ever write about anyone else? Her continuation with punishment by media for the Saints is bordering on total and complete obsession.

BANG BANG

[Schillaci]

Just another article to pad out the newspaper. Saad bit was news rest was toilet paper. Saints continue to feel they did well in the trade period because we did scumbag.

[saintspremiers]

Just another article to pad out the newspaper. Saad bit was news rest was toilet paper. Saints continue to feel they did well in the trade period because we did scumbag.

Yeah nothing article.

Did you read it in full or bash out cause it was Caro?

What about the bit about our cashflow crisis and running to the AFL at GF week?

I'd like some more info about that one.

[Verdun66]

The financials and asking the AFl for help will be true, I bet. On field we are doing our best, but off-field we are as normal. Our admin has always been the weak point. Trading/Drafting going ok I reckon.

We have been thin on the ground for off field resources and executive talent for almost the whole of our existence. Time to get it right.

She does pad out the article with a few furphys but the core of it I'm not arguing with.

[cwrcyn]

Love her or hate her (well, actually, forget the love bit), she's probably very close to the mark ,as she always is.

It gives me no joy to read it, but we have to face the reality that we're in a financial pickle. We have been so for 40 years, and this has been the single most troubling issue for our club.

Westaway was no Rod Butterss, we know that, but it appears that he was asleep at the wheel or simply did not have the time or energy to due the job effectively . Nettlefold was up to his eye balls in it, and working 80 hours a week in an organisation that is scratching around for money after losing sponsors, members, and other significant revenues due to the actions of a psychopathic 16 year old, managing the transition to a new facility that players and supporters won't embrace, and stuck in a stadium deal that provides almost zero income while other clubs rake in the cash at the MCG, is an unenviable position to be in. He may not have performed his role to the highest ability, but I think most of us would have struggled with that kind of load.

When clubs are losing money, clinging on desperately, CEOs and boards take their eye off the football side of things. That very squeaky wheel of looming insolvency is a distraction that chews up most of their time and energy, and when a coach starts causing ripples within the organisation, it's one more load that the CEO can do without. I'm not saying that the CEO and the board couldn't have done better, but I understand their daily grind and the massive financial hurdles in their way. We don't have a pile poker machines that pump out endless supplies of cash. Melbourne make about 6 million dollars more than us from the pokies each year, and they make at least the same amount each year from their stadium deal. And they got to this point much sooner than us. When you're 12 million dollars a year behind Melbourne in guaranteed revenues, you know you've got a tough gig.

No doubt, we're in a predicament

[gringo]

Football journalism 101. A feel good story will sell 100 papers a crisis will sell a million. When we are in "crisis" we all go and buy or jump on line and look at the papers. If you can create turmoil you sell papers then you get cash from ads.

She is also a Richmond fan and would feel aggrieved at the loss of Williams and now she's putting it out there that he would be crazy to go to the Saints.

She whacked Watters and the AFL in that article as evidence of why we are a problem. Where is her article on Collingwood's exodus of prime aged stars? There are plenty of clubs with no money. North Melbourne make a profit of a little bit that will go to pay back their enormous debt.

[Schillaci]

Just another article to pad out the newspaper. Saad bit was news rest was toilet paper. Saints continue to feel they did well in the trade period because we did scumbag.

Yeah nothing article.

Did you read it in full or bash out cause it was Caro?

What about the bit about our cashflow crisis and running to the AFL at GF week?

I'd like some more info about that one.

Read it fully.
I'm not a Caro basher at all but after reading the hatred for her on this site I have gleamed an understanding of why people feel that way. I rarely visit real footy/the age as their AFL coverage doesn't offer much after reading the afl/st.kilda/herald sun/saintsational websites.
As for the cashflow you don't need to be Einstein to know we are not a financial powerhouse...nor are we Melbourne...not bothered or interested about reading the specifics about that until it does become newsworthy. I glossed over that as more newspaper padding to give the "crisis" more credibility.

[cwrcyn]

She whacked Watters. She whacked everyone. Yes, she's looking after Richmond's interests, to no-one's surprise.

But the thing that can't be argued with is that we have some major financial issues, We've never gone cap in had to the AFL commission before (unlike Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, The Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide). It looks like we have to this time. But the AFL surely has to understand that living for 12 years with crippling stadium deal (we would have made at least 40 million dollars more in that period at the MCG), and with the bigger clubs given preferential treatment in regards to the draw, this has been a mountain too high to climb for The saints (and the Bulldogs & North Melbourne).

No one should be surprised that we're struggling financially, least of all the AFL commission. It will be no news to them.

Wilson's article suggests that it is the club's mismanagement alone is responsible for it's perilous financial position, but that is sticking the boots in. She knows it's a whole lot more complicated than that.

[gringo]

She whacked Watters. She whacked everyone. Yes, she's looking after Richmond's interests, to no-one's surprise.

But the thing that can't be argued with is that we have some major financial issues, We've never gone cap in had to the AFL commission before (unlike Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, The Bulldogs, North Melbourne, Port Adelaide). It looks like we have to this time. But the AFL surely has to understand that living for 12 years with crippling stadium deal (we would have made at least 40 million dollars more in that period at the MCG), and with the bigger clubs given preferential treatment in regards to the draw, this has been a mountain too high to climb for The saints (and the Bulldogs & North Melbourne).

No one should be surprised that we're struggling financially, least of all the AFL commission. It will be no news to them.

Wilson's article suggests that it is the club's mismanagement alone is responsible for it's perilous financial position, but that is sticking the boots in. She knows it's a whole lot more complicated than that.

The AFL have screwed teams like the bulldogs and saints by allowing the Etihad deals to financially cripple us. It's about time we got something back for the restraint they have put us under.

[CarlD]

What I would like to see in say, 4 year's time (sooner would be better):

Mark Williams as the St. Kilda coach proudly standing on the dais at the MCG with the premiership cup in his hand: " Caroline Wilson: You were wrong!"

[jimmy_slats]

The people on hear that continue to back caro are delusional... what has she said in this artical that she hasnt said in her last 55 anti saints articals and some of the words she uses to describe the club! How can some of you continue to just want to cop this and say things like she not all that far from the truth? Who cares if she is we all know the problems and all she is doing is trying to take us further down and all some of you can say is thankyou may i have another!!! Have some bloody respect for the club and stand up against this crap for crying out loud!!!!

[Gershwin]

We continually, continually give Caro stories to write about. Why would she not write about us when we shoot ourselves in the foot time after time. We are certainly not a boring club like North or Footscray.

[philtee]

Yikes...every feel-bad story about the Saints from the last 12 months all rolled into one story,
neatly threaded together into the argument that it stems from a core dysfunction.
Sort of a "Best Of Caro Kicking The Saints".
I guess some of it's true, some of it is opinion polished into fact, some of it looks like hearsay
presented next to fact so it looks "fact-ish".
Wouldn't mind seeing the financials she writes about - at the AGM perhaps?

[cwrcyn]

I assume that I am considered one of the delusional ones. I'm not backing (championing) her, but like I said, she's usually close to the mark. That's got nothing to do with her like or dislike for our club. I don't think she despises us, but she does like to stick the boots in when she sniffs a bit of trouble. We make headlines, and we always have, whether we like it or not. That's part of following St Kilda - all part of the topsy turvy, hurdy gurdy, helter skelter journey.

The important thing is that we appear to have a president who's determined to steer the ship in the right direction, and if the AFL can assist the club in obtaining the best CEO possible, that's a good thing in the long run. The financials are a more difficult proposition. The equalisation arrangements need to come in soon, and the AFL commission needs to do something about Etihad stadium soon. Had it bought the stadium 3 years ago instead of expanding into western Sydney, then we might not have found ourselves in such a precarious position. The commission knew that MANY clubs were under financial strain, and has gambled on potential long term gains in the expansion of the competition , at the expense of short to medium term financial pain for St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, and North Melbourne. It's frustrating when you consider the $100 million + they have spent on the expansion teams.

[Verdun66]

I assume that I am considered one of the delusional ones. I'm not backing (championing) her, but like I said, she's usually close to the mark. That's got nothing to do with her like or dislike for our club. I don't think she despises us, but she does like to stick the boots in when she sniffs a bit of trouble. We make headlines, and we always have, whether we like it or not. That's part of following St Kilda - all part of the topsy turvy, hurdy gurdy, helter skelter journey.

The important thing is that we appear to have a president who's determined to steer the ship in the right direction, and if the AFL can assist the club in obtaining the best CEO possible, that's a good thing in the long run. The financials are a more difficult proposition. The equalisation arrangements need to come in soon, and the AFL commission needs to do something about Etihad stadium soon. Had it bought the stadium 3 years ago instead of expanding into western Sydney, then we might not have found ourselves in such a precarious position. The commission knew that MANY clubs were under financial strain, and has gambled on potential long term gains in the expansion of the competition , at the expense of short to medium term financial pain for St Kilda, Western Bulldogs, and North Melbourne. It's frustrating when you consider the $100 million + they have spent on the expansion teams.

Well written. Admin and money. Get that right and we are on our way. Will be hard work.

[cwrcyn]

If the AFL appoints a CEO for us, that will be a very good thing. Then they'll see the real challenges which face our club. They may not trust our current administration, but they'll trust one of their own, and when one of their own starts to explain the extreme difficulties, they'll have to listen, rather than assuming less than optimal practice. It can only be good for us.

[Johnny Member]

Look, I don't see much wrong with the article.

I think the frustrating thing is, and often is with Wilson's writing, is that she uses highly emotive language, yet only drip feeds us the evidence and examples.

If she came out months ago, and blurted out everything we now know, it would all make sense. But the way she does it, is actually confusing. You hear all the emotive words, but can't see the substance behind it.

As she is clearly well informed, it's also frustrating as you know she's got the goss - but she won't just blurt it out!


Anyway, back to the article specifically....

I've followed the Saints for 37 years and I've never, ever known us to be in a good position off-field.

Probably the 03-06 period was the best I've seen off-field. But in hindsight, the Docklands decision back then probably set the club back 20 years!

Aside from that, we always battle off-field - and probably always will. So this aspect of the article doesn't surprise me. Doesn't really even concern me either.
If you want to barrack for a powerhouse club, then starting looking elsewhere Saints fans! But I guess, unless you've been living under a rock for the past 140 years, you already knew that!


As for the rest of it, I see it as more of a past tense thing. Nettlefold for mine, just seemed to oversee too many issues. Too many operational f*** ups happened on his watch.

So really, I think him leaving has to be a positive.

The other major players in the issues raised in the article, are Westaway, Watters and senior players and pretty much - they're all gone too.

Wilson seems to rate Summers, as do many at this early stage.

So really, I see us moving forward. We have a president who is fair dinkum, will have a new CEO, a new coach, and pretty much a new list.

So dare I say, we've hit rock bottom and are on the rebound now. How well we rebound, well we will just have to wait and see.