Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters

[Cairnsman]

Pelchen actres acts like a czar.
Pushed out of Hawthorn for exactly that,
Didn't see eye to eye with Clarkson, Lyon or Watters
Good time to let him go.

He will always try to make himself look extra good and create an aura of utmost importance .
Weak clubs better watch out.

I agree an element of worry/history the rebut facts are we need his skills to build a list and he did play a big part doing that successfully at 2 clubs prior

He though is as much on notice as anyone at the club - another "I can't work with Pelchen" and his career is over IMO

Just because SW was killed off doesn't mean the board aren't aware of any short comings Pelchin has and if that is the case then that could be why Williams is perceived as being in the box seat to be our next transitional coach, however when Williams is ready for despatch it may be that Pelchens gets packaged up as well. Hopefully by then the core list is at the club and Alastair Clarkson is available to be head coach and Robert Harvey is available to be is senior assistant coach.

[BigMart]

Did SW know why he wasn't allowed to do the interview?!

[plugger66]

Did SW know why he wasn't allowed to do the interview?!

I think it would have been pretty obvious.

[skeptic]

I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:

3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season

all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......

Hi Stinger,

I guess what I'm saying is that regardless of whether or not his vision was a good one, SW failed to sell it to the club.

I say with utmost confidence that he failed to sell it to the supporters who, if this forum is anything to go by, were becoming increasingly concerned with regards to bizarre match day decisions that were being made.

It was my opinion that he had sold the vision to the board and was taking a much longer term view than we all imagined. I now suspect that this view is incorrect.

[70s sainter]

The blokes gettin half a mill next year to go on holidays - he ll be right .

[Kickit]

The blokes gettin half a mill next year to go on holidays - he ll be right .

Yeah its hard for guys like Watters to come back from something like this ( Its hard to think what his next job will be ).
That's the reason for contracts though, it lets them make financial commitments without risk of their life going down the sewer at short notice.
There's no way I begrudge paying him out, he hasn't done anything so bad that his entire life should be stuffed up.

[thejiggingsaint]

Good reasonable post Kickit! Agree with you 100%

[8856brother]

The blokes gettin half a mill next year to go on holidays - he ll be right .

Yeah its hard for guys like Watters to come back from something like this ( Its hard to think what his next job will be ).

http://www.dwarfmyparty.com are hiring atm.

[bozza1980]

The blokes gettin half a mill next year to go on holidays - he ll be right .

Yeah its hard for guys like Watters to come back from something like this ( Its hard to think what his next job will be ).
That's the reason for contracts though, it lets them make financial commitments without risk of their life going down the sewer at short notice.
There's no way I begrudge paying him out, he hasn't done anything so bad that his entire life should be stuffed up.

All very true, I don't begrudge him getting what is owed to him.

I also understand that an individidual may make commitments comensurate with their higher salaries, however I still feel $500,000 is a nice cushion to fall on.

The timing is highly unfortunate for SW, effectively closing him off to football positions for 2014, I do believe he will find himself an assistant role somewhere for 2014 and beyond, won't be on $500,000 but will be pretty well renumerated for his services.

[magnifisaint]

The blokes gettin half a mill next year to go on holidays - he ll be right .

Yeah its hard for guys like Watters to come back from something like this ( Its hard to think what his next job will be ).
That's the reason for contracts though, it lets them make financial commitments without risk of their life going down the sewer at short notice.
There's no way I begrudge paying him out, he hasn't done anything so bad that his entire life should be stuffed up.

All very true, I don't begrudge him getting what is owed to him.

I also understand that an individidual may make commitments comensurate with their higher salaries, however I still feel $500,000 is a nice cushion to fall on.

The timing is highly unfortunate for SW, effectively closing him off to football positions for 2014, I do believe he will find himself an assistant role somewhere for 2014 and beyond, won't be on $500,000 but will be pretty well renumerated for his services.

Who the hell will give him an assistants role in 2015?
He's well and truly cooked his coaches goose. Back to the WAFL for 10 years.

[saintsRrising]

What about when the players attempted to overturn Milneys omission?

We're focusing heavily on Scott, a lot of 'my way or the highway' at our club which wasn't exclusive to him....Pelchen, players, nettles all flexed their muscles at times.

K, I don't know the circumstances surrounding that.
But I do know there was a discussion about it.
No subterfuge
No secrecy
No going behind everybody else's back to do it.

And surely that is the point of the discussion.
Watters is being painted in the 'light. of having a 'problem' working with others whom he needed to work with.

Whether he gave Saad a 'final game' is irrelevant to this discussion other than the manner in which he did it, IMHO
Seemingly all the others you have your sights set on went about communicating their decisions in a more inclusive manner.
Others may not agree with their decisions but at least they apparently were told about them prior.

Exactly

players followed due process.

watters did not.

there is nothing wrong with the plsyers putting forward the view that Milne was entitled to play and that they would support him playing

[Greg T]

Like any other person in the workforce,he had his chance.
He failed, move on
He will get a gig somewhere else,they all do .
He had long enough to sell himself to the club but couldn't do it.
I reckon the club went easy on him in the end....

[Dave McNamara]

What about when the players attempted to overturn Milneys omission?

We're focusing heavily on Scott, a lot of 'my way or the highway' at our club which wasn't exclusive to him....Pelchen, players, nettles all flexed their muscles at times.

players followed due process.

watters did not.

Or maybe he did...?

Saad's inclusion was also raised. Caro's report refers to Watters clearing it with KEY directors, but bypassing Nettlefold. While I agree Watters chosen route is not the way it should be done, what in the hell were KEY diectors doing giving him the nod? Exactly who isn't on the same page here? Are those KEY directors still on the board?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83781&p=1414194#p1414194

And more broadly, Cuddle's 'holistic' approach seems to have actually helped him land the gig in the first place...

So, according to Nettlefold, Watters got the gig because he would be "holistic" and get across more of the operation than merely coaching the senior list. Much of the nebulous justification coming from club officials for the sacking implies he went into areas beyond merely coaching.

Dunno 'bout you, but I see pretty flippin' big contradictions emerging already. And, note, Denham's referring to Nettlefold making the statement, not the Watters' camp.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83781&p=1414542#p1414542

Thanks for that TOT. Clearly someone/someones have a bit of difficulty lying straight in bed at night. I'd love to know which 'faction' that is.

I wonder if we'll ever hear a reason why Cuddles got the boot... a reason that is, that hasn't been dismissed by Summers or Netters...?



Oh well, no doubt our fearless leaders know what they are doing. And hey, AVJ down a cent today. Clearly under priced at only $0.59 a share. Time to show our faith in the management... buy in.

[Dave McNamara]

And oh yeah, what's with this hiding behind the 'don't diss Watters' facade?

That's actually an incredible and cynical piece of hypocrisy from elements within our club... after they've run a gutless, underhanded, systematic campaign of targeted leaks to their press lackeys painting Watters as dysfunctional!?!

Yeah right... 'whatever it takes', eh? Should we remove the white from our jumper, and join the likes of what Bereton describes as footy's three 'c's?

[The OtherThommo]

What about when the players attempted to overturn Milneys omission?

We're focusing heavily on Scott, a lot of 'my way or the highway' at our club which wasn't exclusive to him....Pelchen, players, nettles all flexed their muscles at times.

players followed due process.

watters did not.

Or maybe he did...?

Saad's inclusion was also raised. Caro's report refers to Watters clearing it with KEY directors, but bypassing Nettlefold. While I agree Watters chosen route is not the way it should be done, what in the hell were KEY diectors doing giving him the nod? Exactly who isn't on the same page here? Are those KEY directors still on the board?
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83781&p=1414194#p1414194

And more broadly, Cuddle's 'holistic' approach seems to have actually helped him land the gig in the first place...

So, according to Nettlefold, Watters got the gig because he would be "holistic" and get across more of the operation than merely coaching the senior list. Much of the nebulous justification coming from club officials for the sacking implies he went into areas beyond merely coaching.

Dunno 'bout you, but I see pretty flippin' big contradictions emerging already. And, note, Denham's referring to Nettlefold making the statement, not the Watters' camp.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=83781&p=1414542#p1414542

Thanks for that TOT. Clearly someone/someones have a bit of difficulty lying straight in bed at night. I'd love to know which 'faction' that is.

I wonder if we'll ever hear a reason why Cuddles got the boot... a reason that is, that hasn't been dismissed by Summers or Netters...?



Oh well, no doubt our fearless leaders know what they are doing. And hey, AVJ down a cent today. Clearly under priced at only $0.59 a share. Time to show our faith in the management... buy in.

This investment bizo is right in my wheelhouse Dave. If you're interested in a builder, take a gander at Cedar Woods (ASX Code: CWP). Definitely expensive, but only because of management successfully executing what they espouse. Big rezoning win just this week. Never, ever touched AVJ - serial underperformer.

Oh, and you left out my mention of Caro's Oct 17th report stating the Milne omission was a board decision, despite some people suggesting it was Watters who had to scramble to appease the players because it was his decision.

[Bluthy]

The blokes gettin half a mill next year to go on holidays - he ll be right .

Yeah its hard for guys like Watters to come back from something like this ( Its hard to think what his next job will be ).
That's the reason for contracts though, it lets them make financial commitments without risk of their life going down the sewer at short notice.
There's no way I begrudge paying him out, he hasn't done anything so bad that his entire life should be stuffed up.

The footy world is amazingly pragmatic. Alright it ended pretty ugly but a lot of coaches will probably sympathise with Watters. I could see him being an assistant coach in a couple of years if he wanted it. Or the media beckons with his silver tongue. An ex senior-coach is usually in demand these days. Or maybe he and Dermott could set up a new garage. Dermott's last one seemed to do pretty well!

[sunsaint]

I'm clearly one of the only people that thought the sentiment in giving saad what could be his last game, was a nice gesture in a year where it wasn't going to impact wins or losses. He wasn't breaking any rules in playing, given he hasn't received his provisional suspension.

I don't think that 'the giving Saad a final game' was so much the problem.

More, if the published reports are close to being accurate, that he went behind the backs of
the Admin
the Match Committee
The Coaching Staff
The Players

to do so.
That he felt the need to do this in such secrecy and keep everybody else in the organization in the dark about it says an awful lot to me about how he was thinking/operating.

Yep - Seems pretty clear up it was a process and a procedure thing.

Can only disregard the head, the CEO, assistants, selection committee and everyone else for so long.

Seems pretty clear he didn't have support from anyone at the club. I'm even surprised how much support we are getting from journalists - no ones come at us. Things not sounding good re his man management.

the media not coming at us? yes they are, its just that saintsationalists dismiss any opinion that they dont like as BS ie Dermot, thomas, etc
what surprises me most is that the "leak" coming seemingly from someone at the club and being spread by Mark Fine is seen as gospel
it is one sided & as we all have learnt recently if you repeat a mistruth often enough - it becomes the perceived reality
The point about the inclusion of Saad worries me as it doesnt sit with the AFL procedure
The match committee sits to select the team and then submits the list to the AFL at a prescribed time'
The only way that Watters could have got away with any subterfuge is if he snuck an ammended team to the AFL representative on match day

[kalsaint]

Did SW know why he wasn't allowed to do the interview?!

I think it would have been pretty obvious.

Maybe it was but maybe it wasn't. Perhaps the club should have acted earlier if the coach wasn't following club protocol for media interaction. Th comes with understanding and clarity of role boundaries. The leaks from the club indicate this is not a strength at the club and this p1sses me of as we look like galahs.

[magnifisaint]

Seems like good ole Scotty vilified our playing group

[The Fireman]

I'm not sick of it, I'm actually enjoying it

[saintspremiers]

I'm not sick of it, I'm actually enjoying it

Likewise. Has been another great off season.

[Dave McNamara]

Oh, and you left out my mention of Caro's Oct 17th report stating the Milne omission was a board decision, despite some people suggesting it was Watters who had to scramble to appease the players because it was his decision.

Not so much 'left out' Thommo, as hoping that people would check your post for themselves... yeah, optimistic I know... as evidenced by the continuing number of posts that fail to address any of the glaring number of 'somethings-fishys'...

Oh well, onwards we go... another $500,000K learning experience for our club...

This investment bizo is right in my wheelhouse Dave. If you're interested in a builder, take a gander at Cedar Woods (ASX Code: CWP). Definitely expensive, but only because of management successfully executing what they espouse. Big rezoning win just this week. Never, ever touched AVJ - serial underperformer.

Back up a cent today, but still clearly a bargain.

I remain unsure as to why so many of our fellow Saintsationalists are failing to 'buy in'...?

Surely not a faith in the management thing? Surely not...?

[satchmo]

Surely not a faith in the management thing? Surely not...?

So Dave... if we make the eight while he's prez...how many shares are you gonna buy?

[Dave McNamara]

Surely not a faith in the management thing? Surely not...?

So Dave... if we make the eight while he's prez...how many shares are you gonna buy?

(A) Quiz?

The answer is none.

However, when we win a flag despite the prez..., I'm prepared to be magnanimous.

That company has gone nowhere for decades... however the price is generally not too volatile, so maybe good for writing a few options against...?

[satchmo]

Surely not a faith in the management thing? Surely not...?

So Dave... if we make the eight while he's prez...how many shares are you gonna buy?

(A) Quiz?

The answer is none.

However, when we win a flag despite the prez..., I'm prepared to be magnanimous.

That company has gone nowhere for decades... however the price is generally not too volatile, so maybe good for writing a few options against...?

Just what is the issue with the new prez, Dave? Pretty sure that AVJ is not the problem.
Why don't you actually accuse him of what you think he has done, and then( if necessary) he could defend himself?