Bit sick of the vilification of Chris Pelchen

[Cairnsman]

Oh goody,

More playing the man than the debate?!

Leadership structures within any or team or organisation.... All have the same features
Clarity
Direction
Strategy unanimously followed
And a quality leader

Could be a kindergarten group, completing a task from a teacher.... The best team would be the most functional!!!

The Romans were very successful in implementing, leadership, strategy and team work.... Thousands of years ago.
It's the model that has since been adopted in Defense, Politics and business and sport....

Most other managerial models have come and gone.... But have not sustained successful outcomes in reality

Cairnsman..... What do you reckon that saying actually means?

Something about having more than one rooter at the wrong end...I'm just a sheep though so not entirely sure how pigs go about it.

[BigMart]

That you are... You're flip/flopping sure does indicate it anyway...

Slang for....Who's driving the ship?

[Old Mate]

Pelchen may not have played AFL footy but he's been around AFL footy for 25 years. He's not your stereotypical 'jock' so he doesn't fit into Dermie's crew, but he is highly regarded in AFL circles. That's why you never see any negative press about him in his football role. Sure there's stuff printed about Chris not getting along with people but that doesn't mean he is not respected in his job.

Pelchen is cut throat, a bit socially awkward and is not in the business of making friends. He's in the business of building successful on-field football clubs. He's an extremely intelligent and strategical man. A bit of a 'nerd.' He's not here to tread on the coaches toes just oversee their role and ensure they have the same direction as the football club as a whole. He is the head of the football department so the coach should respect him and not go around his back causing issues.

[BigMart]

And visa versa

[Dis Believer]

Leadership structures within any or team or organisation.... All have the same features
Clarity
Direction
Strategy unanimously followed
And a quality leader

God you spout some waffle! you've clearly spent too many hours sitting in two and three day "leadership seminars".

What you've detailed, with the exception of clarity, are aspects of leadership, not structures. A quality leader is not an aspect of a structure. It is a desirable outcome.

[Junction Oval]

BigMart said in part :

Role clarity is what the staff and players need at Seaford
The senior coach.... Must be in charge of overall football strategy, which includes
Personnel, game plan, training structure, development, conditioning

What is wrong with the Club declaring what the "roles" of the senior managers are - then we would all know, instead of constant speculation and innuendo. I don't think that there would be any secrets given out in doing that - keep it simple and in broad terms. As things stand now, everyone seems confused, including the employees!

[vacuous space]

I skimmed through the Pelchen chapters of The Draft last night. It's hard to believe he's the backstabbing egomaniac Dermie makes him out to be. He spends most of that book collating information from his scouts on the ground. It doesn't seem like it would be possible to do his job without at least occasional deference to those with greater knowledge. Delegating responisibility doesn't seem like it was one of Watters' strong suits. Even if we accept that Pelchen was overstepping his bounds (which is a weird line to take, given the outcome), it doesn't explain the supposed encroachment Watters made on the assistants' territory and the inability to follow executive orders. It doesn't begin to explain Watters' disconnect with the playing group. It also doesn't explain why the club flicked Watters rather than Pelchen. I don't think we can assume incompetence nor matter how pessimistic we might get.

I also can't help but wonder what happened with Dustin Martin. There were a lot of rumours he was on his way here in the leadup to trade week. Martin certainly seemed to think he had a good thing lined up only to wind up back at Tigerland with his tail between his legs. Watters supposedly had a go at Armo and Fisher for their association with Martin. It may be nothing other than trade week rumour mongering, but given how accurate some of the ridiculous sounding reports have turned out to be, like I said, I can't help but wonder. It's not out of the realm of possibility we might have been able to PSD him.

As for Dermie, he's always sold himself as a face and a personality, so let's not equate his off-field success with a football brain. Tip top used him to sell bread and Channel 9 used to put him on things that had nothing to do with footy. He hasn't been overly involved in club level footy post-retirement. He's been a part timer. He's done the board thing and now he's doing the part-time forward coach thing. Neither one is anywhere near Pelchen's level. He does know both Pelchen and Watters, so it's worth taking his opinion on board, but alone it's worth very little because of his obvious bias. If Pelchen flops, I'm sure there will be at least one person who will point back to now and claim victory. I'm also sure that if Pelchen leaves this club the way he left his last two, nobody's going to care if he feasted on the souls of infant children; he'll be celebrated.

[Cairnsman]

Leadership structures within any or team or organisation.... All have the same features
Clarity
Direction
Strategy unanimously followed
And a quality leader

God you spout some waffle! you've clearly spent too many hours sitting in two and three day "leadership seminars".

What you've detailed, with the exception of clarity, are aspects of leadership, not structures. A quality leader is not an aspect of a structure. It is a desirable outcome.

I think he's also watched his fair share of Discovery Channel.

[HitTheBoundary]

Oh goody,
More playing the man than the debate?!

If you stop making so many of your posts all about you (what exactly was the use of that cricket waffle?) then you may find this will happen less often.

The Romans were very successful in implementing, leadership, strategy and team work.... Thousands of years ago.
It's the model that has since been adopted in Defense, Politics and business and sport....
Most other managerial models have come and gone....

Where do you get this nonsense from? The History Channel?

55 Roman/Byzantine Emperors died of Natural cause/Diseases.
43 Emperors died from Assassination/murder/execution
33 Emperors Deposed/blinded/exiled/mutilated/imprisoned/tortured or abdicated.

You could as easily argue that with the amount of sackings etc. we are following the Roman model.

In a few weeks we'll have a new coach, and the structure/future vision documents will be made public.
It'll be interesting to see where the new coach and Pelchen are in the structure.
And how long the "new" structure is adhered to....

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

So,

Is he list manager.... Who I thought was Ameet Baines or head of footy?

He (Pelchen) is 'Head of Football'.

People should be clear on that.

I'm not saying that Pelchen doesn't have any say in the list-management type decisions. He was obviously hired because he has had a pretty good track record on knowing what's required list-management wise.

Ameet Bains is the list manager and I think the results he (along with others) was able to get in the trade period were pretty good.

[BigMart]

Who are you guys actually defending and why?

The club is is/was in obvious turmoil and you still defend it, by attacking anyone who questions the set up

Obviously there was a problem with leadership and a power struggle resulted... And someone got rid of the other...

Mock me all you like

It doesn't change the fact that we sacked another coach, we are 16th on the ladder, we are financially insecure, we are losing members....
Seriously you are like the Labour Party .... Unable to accept a friggen mess ....

It can be turned around, but not with a snake in charge....

It's why I hop Choco comes in and does it properly....

Haven't been to leadership seminars (remember I was a bused for bagging them) but have been in leadership at work and at club level for many years

Don't have discover channel, but do know a bit about history and the art of war...

Why is the club in turmoil
Leadership

[Dis Believer]

It can be turned around, but not with a snake in charge....

crap like this is why you are so successful at painting a target on yourself...

Who is the snake? On what basis? Is this based on you being part of the inner sanctum, or simply again picking the bits of gossip and reporting that support your view and regurgitating them as fact?

[satchmo]

It can be turned around, but not with a snake in charge....

crap like this is why you are so successful at painting a target on yourself...

Who is the snake? On what basis? Is this based on you being part of the inner sanctum, or simply again picking the bits of gossip and reporting that support your view and regurgitating them as fact?

He's been reading Harry Potter again.

[thejiggingsaint]

One story is good......until another one is told. Pelchen has not been given the opportunity to put his side of the affair, though I'm not sure if he has either the desire or requirement to do so. I still feel sad that the coaching position didn't work out for Scott Watters, and have no grudge against him. As for the future, well it serves NO useful or constructive purpose whatsoever to our club for folk to take up one "side" or the other in this affair. Time to concentrate on backing the CLUB!

[GeorgeYoung27]

Do people realise that the last time St Kilda had a really poor season was 2002 (we won 5 games that year also). Since 2002 we have not dropped below 50% win/loss ratio. In that 10 year period every other side in the league has dropped below 50% at least once. Even Sydney did in 2009. Hawthorn did on 4 occasions, Geelong did twice. Everyone in football lives in the moment, so this our moment to fail, but for 10 years we went to a game every with at least a 50% record of winning.

[Kickit]

Obviously a lot of people in this world think that people are all either Adolf Hitler or Mother Therisa.

As for power struggles in organisations, I'd back the guy higher up in the organisational chart to win in most cases.

[cwrcyn]

Bigmart, after considering this issue for some time, and reading all the articles written, listening to Mark Fine before and after the event, and reading Jaxon's version of events I think that it has been established that Watters had a bad relationship with many (probably most) people at the club, not just Chris Pelchen.

Only Brereton has attacked Pelchen's character. iF you choose to accept Brereton's version of events, that is up to you, but from where I sit, the weight of evidence and opinion is very much stacked against Watters, not Pelchen.

Summers is the new broom, and he has chosen to sweep, and sweep swiftly.

[SainterK]

I'm not sold on him.

Gets a lot of faux credit, had nothing to do with buddy, had nothing to do with lake, hale, Burgoyne, dew etc

Lost Dawson and we didn't have a FB for 2 years, probably cause he'd already delisted him once.

Offended BJ.

Invited dowler to train with us, cause he can't be wrong, we will probably pick up thorp for the same reasons.

Allowed an obsession with small forwards the last two years.

[stinger]

I'm not sold on him.

Gets a lot of faux credit, had nothing to do with buddy, had nothing to do with lake, hale, Burgoyne, dew etc

Lost Dawson and we didn't have a FB for 2 years, probably cause he'd already delisted him once.

Offended BJ.

Invited dowler to train with us, cause he can't be wrong, we will probably pick up thorp for the same reasons.

Allowed an obsession with small forwards the last two years.

interesting....

[gringo]

I'm not sold on him.

Gets a lot of faux credit, had nothing to do with buddy, had nothing to do with lake, hale, Burgoyne, dew etc

Lost Dawson and we didn't have a FB for 2 years, probably cause he'd already delisted him once.

Offended BJ.

Invited dowler to train with us, cause he can't be wrong, we will probably pick up thorp for the same reasons.

Allowed an obsession with small forwards the last two years.

Dawson was let go because we couldn't afford to pay him more than $160,000 with out breaking the salary cap. BJ went for the same reason we could not afford to up his contract and one had to go to free up space. He just happened to be the uncontracted one. Someone so badly mismanaged the contracts that we couldn't afford players to stay.

Allowed an obsession? we probably had no more than any other club. Milera, Saad, TDL and Milne with Milne about to retire sounds no worse than Johnson, Motlop, Stokes, Burbury,Menzel and Smedts. I'm sure we were hoping that Milera and TDL would become able to play further up the ground like Stokes and Johnson.

[stinger]

I'm not sold on him.

Gets a lot of faux credit, had nothing to do with buddy, had nothing to do with lake, hale, Burgoyne, dew etc

Lost Dawson and we didn't have a FB for 2 years, probably cause he'd already delisted him once.

Offended BJ.

Invited dowler to train with us, cause he can't be wrong, we will probably pick up thorp for the same reasons.

Allowed an obsession with small forwards the last two years.

Dawson was let go because we couldn't afford to pay him more than $160,000 with out breaking the salary cap. BJ went for the same reason we could not afford to up his contract and one had to go to free up space. He just happened to be the uncontracted one. Someone so badly mismanaged the contracts that we couldn't afford players to stay.

sounds about right...

[SainterK]

I don't agree.

After letting Dawson go, he then resigned Polo, Peake and Raph for another year and they played about 5 games between them.

What would their salaries have been combined?

BJ wanted to sit down with Pelchen and the club in the final weeks, and they refused, I reckon they could of got it done.

I don't think you let guys like BJ go, maintain that

[8856brother]

He can't be judged until the rebuild is complete. Lets look at his legacy in 5 years time. It's about bloody time someone at the club made some tough decisions. No one else has ever had the balls to be the bad guy. Does anyone thinks he gives a hoot what we think of him. He's got a tough job to do and I personally like the way he's doing it. If it doesn't work in the long run, he can get in the queue with all the other failures who have been charge for about the past 140 years. Apart from one year of course.

The more s*** he stirs up, the more I like him. If losing BJ, Dal and Big Boy gives us a better chance to win a premiership. Do it every time. Sentiment has never got our club anywhere.

[Johnny Member]

More playing the man than the debate?!

Leadership structures within any or team or organisation.... All have the same features
Clarity
Direction
Strategy unanimously followed
And a quality leader

Could be a kindergarten group, completing a task from a teacher.... The best team would be the most functional!!!

The Romans were very successful in implementing, leadership, strategy and team work.... Thousands of years ago.
It's the model that has since been adopted in Defense, Politics and business and sport....

Most other managerial models have come and gone.... But have not sustained successful outcomes in reality

Cairnsman..... What do you reckon that saying actually means?

Sorry, I've read your post above and your previous one and I see mention of a model - but can't see the actual model anywhere?

[st_Trav_ofWA]

I don't agree.

After letting Dawson go, he then resigned Polo, Peake and Raph for another year and they played about 5 games between them.

What would their salaries have been combined?

BJ wanted to sit down with Pelchen and the club in the final weeks, and they refused, I reckon they could of got it done.

I don't think you let guys like BJ go, maintain that

hang on a sec ... there is a bit of selective memory going on there ...
we had an offer to Dawson that had he accepted would have spelled the end for Polo and Peake the fact is Dawson chose to go to Freo for more money and a longer contract term ... he was also following Ross Lyon who contray to belief at the time the vast majority like him and enjoyed playing under him ... only after Dawson left did polo and Peake get a year extention (mainly to keep us paying the required 90 odd % of the SC) the next year Peake and Polo were both delisted with BJ we could have probobly matched the offer for him and given him the 4 years like he wanted but the issue then became that we had SC issues while rebuilding , not an ideal situation as you kind of want to have money to splash about when your trying to rebuild... the decision was made that BJ held more value to us in the FA compo and the SC space ... same can be said about this year with Dal ... the fact is when Pelch came to the club 40% of the cap was spread on only 10 players from that we will see slowly those players who were being paid very very well either be renegotiated down or moved on as we cant afford to be paying big $$ to guy in there last years while trying to attract tallent in ...
losing BJ and Dal helps us be able to attract guys like Delaney Longer and Bruce ..