Bit sick of the vilification of Chris Pelchen

[Austinnn]

For what it's worth, the Pelchen role is directly in conflict with the traditional idea of an AFL coach, they're even having problems with it in English soccer. The head coach is used to the idea that they run the show and the management structure around them are just to do the admin. The big names especially would never work in this structure. That's why I thought Watters was a good choice, he's a no-name coach who was a good assistant. But I forgot about Mick.

Watters was raised by Mick Malthouse and you can imagine that old goat telling Scott to never let any number bod tell you how to run the club or something similar. Likewise, if Watters is mates with Dermot Brereton, it's possible that Brereton filled his head with horror stories.

Watters joined a club with Pelchen there, and surely would have had no doubt as to his role. So what changed? Maybe he felt restricted. But he thought he could make a powerplay and came out of it sacked.

Pelchen is an evil manipulator, who no one can work with? I just don't buy it.

I think he is doing what he can to make St Kilda a strong club in the long term. It just coincides with his need to boost his CV. I like the idea of a football director installing stability at a higher level than just who our current coach is. It's like a traditional football manager role in soccer, but even more long term. If we get it right then it could be great for us.

Pelchen hasn't bothered defending himself against Dermie and others questioning his style, he just gets on with it. I think he will take us places but he needs to be supported by the right kind of coach who won't get insecure and who will take care of the coaching.

[howlinwolf]

We haven't had a great track record of late with drafts and trades. An astute list manager was long overdue. One that won't bend over easy.
We now have one so at least that is one part of the puzzle solved. We need the other boxes ticked.
Hopefully Adam Basil is the right man as fitness coach.
At the risk of repeating myself it seems obvious Mark Williams is a prime candidate.They have had a working relationship already so there shouldn't be any nasty surprises there.
We've been through the ringer and just can't afford to take any chances now and get it wrong again.
When the chips are getting low logic says to go with the most proven combination.

[cwrcyn]

Perhaps Pelchen doesn't fit the mould of the footy type. That old rough and tumble larrikin who played the game at the highest level. People like Brereton, Sam Newman, and co. have no respect for people who haven't played at the highest level. To make the assumption that you have to have played AFL football to understand how to operated within the administration of one is absolute nonsense. Good people management and good business practice does not require the prerequisite of pulling on the boots and getting a kick.

I remember Tom Hafey once stating that many supporters he spoke to knew more about football that many people who work within the game.

[Wayne42]

Perhaps Pelchen doesn't fit the mould of the footy type. That old rough and tumble larrikin who played the game at the highest level. People like Brereton, Sam Newman, and co. have no respect for people who haven't played at the highest level. To make the assumption that you have to have played AFL football to understand how to operated within the administration of one is absolute nonsense. Good people management and good business practice does not require the prerequisite of pulling on the boots and getting a kick.

I remember Tom Hafey once stating that many supporters he spoke to knew more about football that many people who work within the game.

can you get some of them to join this forum, just to add some balance....

[cwrcyn]

Ha ha, good point Wayne42

[Eastern]

It was good to see the Pres defending Chris (re the Brereton diatribe) in his email to members yesterday !!

[gringo]

From the members letter I would think Brereton will do a public retraction soon. He will have been slapped with a strongly worded letter suggesting he might have stepped into defamation.

Oh well he's already in court he can take the cheque he gets from the panel shop and hand it to the Pelican.


Pelchen looks more like a stern bureaucrat than an old boy. Brereton is your classic middle aged man who never achieved anything after 30 but hasn't moved on- spends his time happily retelling the time he had a run in with Yates and kicked goals with broken ribs.

[plugger66]

From the members letter I would think Brereton will do a public retraction soon. He will have been slapped with a strongly worded letter suggesting he might have stepped into defamation.

Oh well he's already in court he can take the cheque he gets from the panel shop and hand it to the Pelican.


Pelchen looks more like a stern bureaucrat than an old boy. Brereton is your classic middle aged man who never achieved anything after 30 but hasn't moved on- spends his time happily retelling the time he had a run in with Yates and kicked goals with broken ribs.

I reckon he has achieved a fair bit after 30. I would guess more than 99% of people on here. On radio, on a travel show that is shown all over a Australia, owes a panel shop and im sure does plenty of sports nights. Im guessing he is till earning very good money. He is biased with what he said but im unsure what you said is the reasons he said what he said.

[iceman]

I don't see how pelchen could have executed the deal with Hawthorn if he was so hated there

[gringo]

From the members letter I would think Brereton will do a public retraction soon. He will have been slapped with a strongly worded letter suggesting he might have stepped into defamation.

Oh well he's already in court he can take the cheque he gets from the panel shop and hand it to the Pelican.


Pelchen looks more like a stern bureaucrat than an old boy. Brereton is your classic middle aged man who never achieved anything after 30 but hasn't moved on- spends his time happily retelling the time he had a run in with Yates and kicked goals with broken ribs.

I reckon he has achieved a fair bit after 30. I would guess more than 99% of people on here. On radio, on a travel show that is shown all over a Australia, owes a panel shop and im sure does plenty of sports nights. Im guessing he is till earning very good money. He is biased with what he said but im unsure what you said is the reasons he said what he said.

His panel shop is just as a silent partner, his sports night are just re telling the old stories of his youth and he seems to me a guy who doesn't prepare for his media stuff. Just arrives and wings it.
His travel show is a travesty - filler television trash. He doesn't have a career he's living off past glories. I don't think it's why he said it, he is a mate of Watters. That is why.

[gringo]

I don't see how pelchen could have executed the deal with Hawthorn if he was so hated there

When we first got Pelchen SEN had a Hawks guy on who seemed genuinely pissed off that Pelchen had gone to the Saints- can't remember who it was. It seemed like they were upset that he jumped ship. The interviewer asked if Pelchen might have stayed if Newbold had come in a bit earlier. There seemed to be at least one Hawks official that wanted him to stay.

[plugger66]

I reckon he has achieved a fair bit after 30. I would guess more than 99% of people on here. On radio, on a travel show that is shown all over a Australia, owes a panel shop and im sure does plenty of sports nights. Im guessing he is till earning very good money. He is biased with what he said but im unsure what you said is the reasons he said what he said.

His panel shop is just as a silent partner, his sports night are just re telling the old stories of his youth and he seems to me a guy who doesn't prepare for his media stuff. Just arrives and wings it.
His travel show is a travesty - filler television trash. He doesn't have a career he's living off past glories. I don't think it's why he said it, he is a mate of Watters. That is why.

Just words. To say he hasnt achieved anything after 30 is complete rubbish. probably still cracks the million a year in salary. i wish i achieved as little as him after 30. Dont see the point of knocking the guy apart from saying he was talking crap at the time. And he doesnt have a career. Why? because he doesnt work 9 till 5.

[plugger66]

I don't see how pelchen could have executed the deal with Hawthorn if he was so hated there

When we first got Pelchen SEN had a Hawks guy on who seemed genuinely pissed off that Pelchen had gone to the Saints- can't remember who it was. It seemed like they were upset that he jumped ship. The interviewer asked if Pelchen might have stayed if Newbold had come in a bit earlier. There seemed to be at least one Hawks official that wanted him to stay.

Must have got out voted then.

[Bluthy]

Good post Austinn. I'm kinda glad we kept Pelchen over Watters honestly. My concern is Pelchen's strength, his uncompromising attitude (demonstrated in trade week) could also be his Achilles heal. There is a lesson for him to learn out of this. He now seems to have had a serious falling out with 3 senior coaches in a row. It seems like when tension and differences arises, which they invariably will, he doesn't budge an inch. Both him and Watters took a "my way or the highway" approach. If they were literally no longer talking I can't believe as football director Pelchen couldn't sit down with Watters and just say "this is out of control - heres how I feel - you are bypassing me, making too many decisions etc what are your issues? How do we make this work?" or get a third party in to mediate. At least Scott had the excuse of being a newbie senior coach. What if Choco has some different ideas to Pelchens strategic plans (which surely he will). Will he compromise a bit or make it another stand off? The board need to tell him clearly as football director you can't let things get that bad again. Both his career and the clubs reputation are riding on it.

[St Igmata]

The usual model in AFL is people with a footy playing background.
I am not saying that is right but how things are.
Pelchen is a person from outside of these borders ruthlessly carving out a career for himself.
He needs to make himself indispensable to survive.I am not sure those types have a life span.
How does he keep proving himself year in year out?Does he need to be radical every season?
Playing with fire keeping him around.

just because he has done good work elsewhere doesnt mean he can do it again.

[saintsRrising]

His panel shop is just as a silent partner, .

Indeed.

Plus Dermie is suing his partners now for money now claiming they used his name and failed to pass on enough profits.

[Richter]

Good post Bluthy but it does seem clear that the board (and in particular Andrew Thompson and President Peter Summers) were those mediators. They told Watters to change his ways, he couldn't and so at the strategic time gave him the chop.

[Beekay]

Dermie has a TV show?

I guess that's what people resort to when they're old, drunk, and have children that think they're boring as shiite?

I never new some brain-dead ex-footballer, milking past fame for all it's worth, would be considered by some as achieving. Because we all know he'd be on the airwaves regardless.

Each to their own I suppose...

Without winning a flag, Ross Lyon has achieved more than that deadshit. I suppose we all see things differently.

I can always count on Dermie to introduce me to words that have never been spoken before though.

[BigMart]

So,

Is he list manager.... Who I thought was Ameet Baines or head of footy?

And this style will not work on footy circles... It undermines the authority of the coach and their plans... They are employed to implement football strategy that wins games... How can that strategy work if two different people are strategising on field...

On a different level obviously, but in a similar vein
It reminds me of when I first started coaching a cricket club, initially I was not first XI captain, but was overall club coach, chairman of selectors and implemented the club game plan... The incumbent first XI skipper felt his authority was weakened, who was in charge of the team, who did players speak to, who was responsible for performance?
I got on like a house on fire with the Captain, and still do... This was 15 years ago, but the structure did not work as well in practise as in theory, and players got confused about leadership.... The old saying 'who's rooting this pig' was evident.

Management vs Leadership needs to be understood.... Not just by the players, but also by the people in positions

Role clarity is what the staff and players need at Seaford

The senior coach.... Must be in charge of overall football strategy, which includes
Personnel, game plan, training structure, development, conditioning

He does need to distribute leadership to
List management, assistant coaches, development staff, fitness staff

But it is he, who sets the direction

The football manager puts in place the logistics and resources to allow this to happen..... He does NOT set the agenda.... Or the strategy for the coach to follow.... But rather, put in place the structures to support and resource the senior coach in what he requires for him to carry out his strategy.... He is the overall manager of departments.

He is also the conduit to the board

The CEO - Senior Coach - Football Manager

Work alongside each other with clear job descriptions to deliver desired football club outcomes....

Financial planning
Strategy planning
Development and forward planning

At the moment it seems like people are trying to get to the 'iron throne' and do what GT did ..... Run the joint.

Geelong s model is trying to be followed, unfortunately the personalities and their egos are making it difficult to understand the parameters they should be working under?!

[remboy]

I would Pelchan was employed to do what he's doing. It's not his fault if the club have given him responsibility over the entire football department. It's up to whoever is the next coach and Pelchan to make sure it works.

[dragit]

Oh goody, more amateur cricket analogies...

[skeptic]

can someone please explain to mean in layman's terms, what it is that Pelchin has supposedly that done/does that undermined SW's ability to coach

specifically... is he picking the teams, the positions, demanding what players are the future etc

[Cairnsman]

Oh goody, more amateur cricket analogies...

And sex with pigs.

[remboy]

can someone please explain to mean in layman's terms, what it is that Pelchin has supposedly that done/does that undermined SW's ability to coach

specifically... is he picking the teams, the positions, demanding what players are the future etc

Probably none of the above. I think it's more to the point that some people don't like being answerable to others eg Ross Lyon, GT. They're happy when they are allowed to run the show but as soon as they are told to report to someone else they crack the s***s.

[BigMart]

Oh goody,

More playing the man than the debate?!

Leadership structures within any or team or organisation.... All have the same features
Clarity
Direction
Strategy unanimously followed
And a quality leader

Could be a kindergarten group, completing a task from a teacher.... The best team would be the most functional!!!

The Romans were very successful in implementing, leadership, strategy and team work.... Thousands of years ago.
It's the model that has since been adopted in Defense, Politics and business and sport....

Most other managerial models have come and gone.... But have not sustained successful outcomes in reality

Cairnsman..... What do you reckon that saying actually means?