Bit sick of the vilification of Scott Watters

[skeptic]

I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:

3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season

I drew the opinion by the EOS that Scott was largely playing the kids because he didn't have the list that he needed to build.

Maybe that wasn't the case and it really was unplanned, poorly coached chaos

I don't know

[Richter]

He created this mess - what errs me is the club have to pay him out for next year after he had proven to be a less then competent Head Coach.

Got to be said WO that you had Watters' number from the get go. Was that because of his past dealings in WA footy?

[BigMart]

Why wasn't he allowed to do a radio interview anyway.

[stinger]

Winners write history. Everyone seems to have jumped on the "Diss Scott Watters" bandwagon. And the info coming out is one person versus a club of people. But the truth as always with this stuff is somewhere in between. In retrospect perhaps this was always going to happen. The first coach after a successful period tends to be the sacrificial bunny. He has to start turning over the soil and all you see is piles of dirt and manure everywhere and nothing growing.

I don't think Scott got a lot of support in his role from the get go. The senior players were deeply hurting from just missing flags and indoctrinated in the Lyon mind set. At some level inside themselves they pined for a last crack at a flag and resented the rebuild and the change in footy style. Watters statement about being mediocre didn't help his cause. Coming from an assistant coach at Collingwood you could imagine the players thinking "Yeah and if the ball had bounced properly YOU would be mediocre and not have this job." I can't remember any real statements of support from the previous board. I think the board themselves were confused about the direction of the club - go again or rebuild - hence the delay with Lyon's contract. That sets a confusing environment to coach in. The fish rots at the head.

The assassination of Watters was one of the most synchronised I've seen in football. There were damaging emails being sent out by an insider that TOT talked about here. Plymptons venomous "joke" about Watters being sacked. Reporters were regularly briefed about internal workings that should not have been leaked. People worked with Mark Fine culminating in his completely out of line call for him to be sacked. On the back of a poor season the heat was immense. How can you possibly do your job in that environment?

good fair comments...

[BigMart]

Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?

Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!

Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????

[Con Gorozidis]

Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?

Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!

Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????

More information has come to light BM.

[whiskers3614]

Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?

Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!

Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????

Because a couple of months ago the rumours were unsubstantiated.
Said rumours have now been franked by the club by virtue of the dismissal.
By the way I for one was and still am in the undecided category in relation to Watters, but see no use in bagging the club for what is now already done.

[BigMart]

Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....

Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....

Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....

There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!

[Spinner]

I'm clearly one of the only people that thought the sentiment in giving saad what could be his last game, was a nice gesture in a year where it wasn't going to impact wins or losses. He wasn't breaking any rules in playing, given he hasn't received his provisional suspension.

I don't think that 'the giving Saad a final game' was so much the problem.

More, if the published reports are close to being accurate, that he went behind the backs of
the Admin
the Match Committee
The Coaching Staff
The Players

to do so.
That he felt the need to do this in such secrecy and keep everybody else in the organization in the dark about it says an awful lot to me about how he was thinking/operating.

Yep - Seems pretty clear up it was a process and a procedure thing.

Can only disregard the head, the CEO, assistants, selection committee and everyone else for so long.

Seems pretty clear he didn't have support from anyone at the club. I'm even surprised how much support we are getting from journalists - no ones come at us. Things not sounding good re his man management.

[satchmo]

Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....

Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....

Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....

There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!

Say hi to kim duthie's twins for me.

[Spinner]

Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....

Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....

Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....

There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!

Exactly - although sometime rumours can be compeletly made up.

Sometimes jungle drums beat and it's fine to remain on the fence but sense something is up.

Too often people on here need to be on side a or side b - with or against. And that it's the case because I'm not privy to all information I can't certainly be so adamant.

[Spinner]

To the OP - I don't think anyone is going over the top in dissing SW that wasn't already.

I think no one was really sure on him and you might be taking a lack of support as dissing him.

[stinger]

Why are most of the people bagging him done such a 180 from a month or so ago?

Is he now a worse coach now, or were we then justifying him being coach before, now we are justifying his axing?!

Only a couple of people are consistent over time with their views????

Because a couple of months ago the rumours were unsubstantiated.
Said rumours have now been franked by the club by virtue of the dismissal.
By the way I for one was and still am in the undecided category in relation to Watters, but see no use in bagging the club for what is now already done.

none of us know the real reasons and the club is keeping mum.....

[markp]

Bit like the Dwarfe rumours some refused to believe....

Rumours are going around for reasons generally, some has leaked info.... They don't start out of thin air....

Caro, Finey and whoever don't end up in their roles because they are fools..... Yet most here tried to argue that....

There is a difference between something being unbelievable and not wanting to believe it?!

And if everyone here had been bagging watters out since these rumours began, then what?

Would you be happy?

Would there have been a different outcome?

Jesus man it's just a footy fan forum.

[Bluthy]

To the OP - I don't think anyone is going over the top in dissing SW that wasn't already.

I think no one was really sure on him and you might be taking a lack of support as dissing him.

I just think the narrative has too easily flipped over into Watters was a "f up who couldn't get on with anyone" and I suspect that doesn't do him justice. I understand some of that is getting behind the club and moving on and I feel that way a bit too. So much of this stuff should have been kept internal even if the situation was bad. Once it gets out it takes on a life of its own that makes it harder to fix.

I agree with Oldie that Scott heard he was to be sacked and in his infamous interview thought "Everyday I've opened the paper and seen leaked details from my own club destroying my rep and undermining me, time to return fire and make them look like idiots" - also probably would help with his payout/unfair dismissal claim. In a strange way his vindictiveness to go out like that shows why he may have struggled with the power dynamics at a big business macho footy club environment. He seemed to have a bit of a all or nothing approach. Beware of "nice" people who talk well, there is a dark side lurking. Coaches like Lyon and Clarkson come across as borderline autistic sometimes.

[stinger]

Coaches like Lyon and Clarkson come across as borderline autistic sometimes.

aint that the truth...but then again...so was einstein......

[chook23]

I'm clearly one of the only people that thought the sentiment in giving saad what could be his last game, was a nice gesture in a year where it wasn't going to impact wins or losses. He wasn't breaking any rules in playing, given he hasn't received his provisional suspension.

I don't think that 'the giving Saad a final game' was so much the problem.

More, if the published reports are close to being accurate, that he went behind the backs of
the Admin
the Match Committee
The Coaching Staff
The Players

to do so.
That he felt the need to do this in such secrecy and keep everybody else in the organization in the dark about it says an awful lot to me about how he was thinking/operating.

Spot on MM

[saintly]

Perhaps it was justified. Every commentator that I have read and listened to since Friday (with the exception of Dermott Brereton) seem think that Watters copped his right whack. A lot has come out about how he conducted himself behind closed doors. There is too much negative and not enough positive for him to blame anyone other than himself !!

on sunday - rohan connelley blaming the saints on SEN and in the AGE talking about bad culture.

Dial a quote Thomas on friday saying negative things about the sacking.

[Eastern]

Why wasn't he allowed to do a radio interview anyway.

What?

Surely you jest.

They were about to sack him !!

[saintspremiers]

Why wasn't he allowed to do a radio interview anyway.

What?

Surely you jest.

They were about to sack him !!

Agree. Maybe BM got his order of events mixed up.

BM - would you like a timeline of events, because what you've said makes no sense in the slightest.

[stinger]

I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:

3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season

all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......

[The OtherThommo]

I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:

3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season

all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......

Hang on there a mo', Sting - you're suggesting a new coach will have the final say over the list. Is that consistent with the new "structure" spoken about by Summers?

Who brought those players to the club? I'm pretty sure you won't find the coach's signature on their contracts.

And, I'm not offering an opinion on the players named, or what their futures should be.

[stinger]

I'm a SW fan, I thought he was doing an ok job but that said, quite a few things occurred over the course of the season that were really really questionable:

3-4 small forward selection policey
Siposs training as a back all pre-season then spending 2 games and moving
Dunnell and Ledger barely getting games
TDL, Saad and milera getting heaps of games despite playing really poorly
A confusing ruck situation all round
Curren not being promoted til what some consider quite late
A distinct lack of structure throughout the course of the season

all true unfortunately.......look..imho ledger can play...and will go on to have a good career with someone else......can't say the same about tdl, saad or milera.....quicker those three are gone the better......chances are with a new coach that will happen sooner than later......

Hang on there a mo', Sting - you're suggesting a new coach will have the final say over the list. Is that consistent with the new "structure" spoken about by Summers?

Who brought those players to the club? I'm pretty sure you won't find the coach's signature on their contracts.

And, I'm not offering an opinion on the players named, or what their futures should be.

i'm sure the coach has the major say in who gets picked in the team. though....obviously scotty did.....and the new coach will too.......doubt those three will be getting many games with saad maybe not even on the list.....

[St Igmata]

Pelchen actres acts like a czar.
Pushed out of Hawthorn for exactly that,
Didn't see eye to eye with Clarkson, Lyon or Watters
Good time to let him go.

He will always try to make himself look extra good and create an aura of utmost importance .
Weak clubs better watch out.

[Teflon]

Pelchen actres acts like a czar.
Pushed out of Hawthorn for exactly that,
Didn't see eye to eye with Clarkson, Lyon or Watters
Good time to let him go.

He will always try to make himself look extra good and create an aura of utmost importance .
Weak clubs better watch out.

I agree an element of worry/history the rebut facts are we need his skills to build a list and he did play a big part doing that successfully at 2 clubs prior

He though is as much on notice as anyone at the club - another "I can't work with Pelchen" and his career is over IMO