The Reasons re Watters

[patto]

So are we actually saying there has been some mismanagement now?

Is that allowed now?!

For god sake get over it. You have asked the same question last night. Just looking for someone to say yes, you were right are you. And most people never said the management was perfect but are just sick of your constant banging on about it. You are the most negative poster ive ever seen on a forum, especially for someone who is supposed to love our club. Is it possible for you tp focus on some positives regarding our club for once? I think not

[Greg T]

Thanks Jaxons,
Glad the club acted now,makes perfect sense.
Let's hope the next coach is the perfect fit to take our new players
And history in the right direction.
I'm quite pleased SW is gone IMO ..

[lefty]

Looks like a lot of points, but its really not, its just different journo's repeating the same thing

1. Power struggle, Pelchen v Watters
2. Players & staff not happy with coach
3. Apparent (opinionated) lack of game day coaching ability

Apart from that, doesn't seem much more to it.

Point 1 should of been address by the board.
Point 2 you can't do much about
Point 3 is very debatable

Doesn't seem much, but I can see why.
The fundamental problem here is TRUST.

I also hope Pelchen isn't using his power incorrectly, he should be using it as support for the coach, and the board should be looking into this.
Anyways, time to look for a new coach now, what is done, has been done.

[Wayne42]

And what would Brereton know about St Kilda? Has anyone seen him at training? He's defending a mate. It's funny how he labelled Watters, Eade and Terry Wallace as the three best footy brains he knows. Only one grand final as a coach between them, for no premierships. As for Brereton, he king hit Spud Frawley, said we didn't have the cattle at the start of the 1997 season when we made the grand final, and now slags off at us to defend a mate who is clearly deserving of his fate. Yeah, real credibility there.
Allan Jeans thought very highly of Chris Pelchen and that's good enough for me. Who cares if Dermott Brereton doesn't?

I agree- Yabby was far above some the clowns who use the media to be critical of the club. Brereton was top a player, but other than that is just a motor-mouth playboy

Brereton was a top player at one club only.

He was crap at the other clubs he played for, or took money off, more to the point.

Pretty arrogant dude is Brereton considering his family and their history

[ctqs]

And Brereton wanted Gary Ayres to be coach instead of Clarkson. He's not as smart as he thinks.

[saints1960]

And what's this say about our former President Greg Westerway "asleep at the wheel"?????

[stinger]

Everyone has been asking me why Watters is no longer coach, what were the reasons behind his sacking.
I won't break any confidence but I will highlight some grabs of some of the articles from journos today, all of these bits are accurate, there is a lot more not reported and better that it doesn't come out.
The club have been measured at not baking Scott in public.

Here are only the truths taken out of each article as reported in the paper:




Sam Edmund and Scott Gullan - Herald Sun

* There were also increasing concerns over his coaching, particularly on match day, where frequently changing tactics and mixed messages were common.
* It came after Thompson’s review of the football department revealed an “endorsement that we have the right people in the right roles”. But in the weeks since the club had become convinced that Watters’ behaviour wasn’t going to change.


[.

piss poor articles....anybody on here could have writen most of it.........no facts just reprinting rumours as fact...robbos article is however more believable whilst sam edmund's is laughable...he has dean bailey walking out on us ffs...


caro's article is just more of the same poisonous bulls***...but in the end some of it somwhere, must be true.......just what i'm not sure of..as they each rubbish some of the issues put forward as fact by each other....

[stinger]

The reasons don't add up for me, it feels like power games right through the club....
I would hope the more that Jaxon has is more specific and cuts to the bone.
I suppose given his previous knowledge I have no reason to doubt him....

doubt him for what????..he hasn't said anything ffs...just reprinted parts of articles in todays papers.....

...is any of it true...who the flower knows....maybe some of it.....

[gringo]

So are we actually saying there has been some mismanagement now?

Is that allowed now?!

For god sake get over it. You have asked the same question last night. Just looking for someone to say yes, you were right are you. And most people never said the management was perfect but are just sick of your constant banging on about it. You are the most negative poster ive ever seen on a forum, especially for someone who is supposed to love our club. Is it possible for you tp focus on some positives regarding our club for once? I think not

Well said. If you keep saying the world will end one day it might come true -doesn't make you a f%$#ing mystic.

[Old Mate]

I reckon Watters is a shite coach, no big loss. We move on and learn from past mistakes.

[stinger]

Looks like a lot of points, but its really not, its just different journo's repeating the same thing

1. Power struggle, Pelchen v Watters
2. Players & staff not happy with coach
3. Apparent (opinionated) lack of game day coaching ability

Apart from that, doesn't seem much more to it.

Point 1 should of been address by the board.
Point 2 you can't do much about
Point 3 is very debatable

Doesn't seem much, but I can see why.
The fundamental problem here is TRUST.

I also hope Pelchen isn't using his power incorrectly, he should be using it as support for the coach, and the board should be looking into this.
Anyways, time to look for a new coach now, what is done, has been done.

fair comments.....

...never completedly sold on watters or pelchan....reckon someone should have been able to sit them both down and work something out though...

[Con Gorozidis]

Thanks jaxons
To me SW sounds like a Kevin Rudd style control freak egomaniac.
We should have interviewed some people at Subiaco before hiring him as we may have got some understanding.
Perhaps under someone as large as Malthouse he was able to cover and check his ego.
Once he got the main job the inner monster came out.

I still think the sr players need to take some responsibility and are also a bit deluded.

Memo to Joey - hiring a dwarf and copying the footy show isnt funny or original.
Chips - you arent a black american gangster and you are 31 years old. Get a grip.

[Con Gorozidis]

So according to the Aus the Ashley Prescott appointment was the final straw
SW hired a head Asst and replacement for Laidley without consulting anyone.

[Goddard Magic]

If the dwarf incident was truly a set up by the players then surely, it reflects as badly on them as it does on their coach. Perhaps worse.

[sasaint]

Thanks Jaxons. Good to get your view.

Bottom line is if you have to make a selection between Pelchen v Watters as they couldn't work together then it would be Pelchen without a doubt. Proven ability to build a premiership AFL team versus effectively a rookie AFL coach. IMHO the proof is in the last two years of list management versus a very mixed on field performance by Watters.

I am still looking forward to our Saints - The Next generation

Go Saints

[kalsaint]

That is some list. If there are some elements of truth to every bullet point in jaxons' post then you are left wondering if there are good points. I mean there's not much left.
If it was that bad then clearly the club had to act. Watters is never going to be a senior AFL coach again. He will struggle to get any half decent job as coach. Our new president might not have "baked" him in public and given reasons for his dismissal, choosing to be politically correct and hiding behind "that's confidifential between the club and Scott", but he may as well have baked him. The media, through their sources at the club, have ensured it's all out there. Jaxons is happy to say there it is.
Now I'm left feeling:
1. Glad that the decision was made to sack SW.
2. Annoyed that the president didn't have the balls to say SW was a poor fit for the St.Kilda Football Club he had to go because he....reasons listed.
3. Have concerns about staffers with their own interests at heart who are happy to spread sensitive information about the inner workings of the club if it will help them achieve what they believe is best for the club.
4. Pissed at those who appointed SW in the first place...if we are to believe everything in the OP he is one of the worst AFL appointments ever...up there Blight.
5. Excited...and hoping we can get this coaching appointment right.

Agree with this but would add the following:
6. Leadership is still an issue in my opinion as Scott was doing a lot of what older style coaches did as the years with increased media attention increased. There are still elements of this seen through the comments recently by Dermett Breton, relecyance of senior coaches to take on the Director of footy roles (Malthouse is s prime example).
7. The new appointment need not be a senior coach (discussed in recent past post) as they may all pass the recruitment hoops of the club, however, many of these may still have history working in a senior coach ran environment. Its interesting to see Collingwood's past methodology here.
8. The new appointment process must have in built safeguards to individuals egos. By this I mean role boundaries must be clear and KPI's in this regard reviewed until confidence is installed in the function of the role. Watch Rob Harvey for change in his attitude since being at Carlton and Collingwood.
9. Lastly Management. Based on Planning, Organising, Leading and Controlling. This needs to step up to ensure no repeat of failures. Coaches cant be replaced so regularly without suspicion of what's going on above. Dermott was partly correct in his recently analogy here. Rightly or wrongly, St. Kilda has a reputation to resolve again.. Clarity of strategy plans, boundaries and expectations are needed with a disciplined management approach to ensure alignment of all club functions occurs. Then expect success without continual media distraction. Start with some openness to the members on key points and decisions (we don't need to know the details).

[Dis Believer]

A few salient points:

1) Sacking a coach is not a "crisis". It's how AFL clubs function, and it's become a blood sport every season for the AFL media in the past 5 to 10 years.
2) Was Scotty any good? I don't think he was there long enough to make a call. But no one here had to work with him or for him so we'll never really know.
3) If he was really no good and causing issues within the place we are better off with him gone, sooner rather than later.
4) The main issue is our playing list. The coach is irrelevant if the players are crap. Watters going doesn't effect the rebuilding of the list, so we stay our course, being plotted by a guy with a great history of managing successful playing lists.

5) BigMart - this is not all about you. You actually only seem happy if things aren't travelling as well as they could be. In fact your posting seemed to slow down as it became more apparent our trade period was going well. We are not in crisis, nor is the sky falling. We need to replace a coach. Everything else is little more than white noise. We hired a guy who turned out not to be what it said on the package. We aren't the first organisation to that and we won't be the last. We will get a new coach, and everyone will move on, and look for signs that the new guy is a good coach. Except you. You'll keep harping on about his predecessor and how we hired the wrong guy.

[Stillwaiting]

A few salient points:

1) Sacking a coach is not a "crisis". It's how AFL clubs function, and it's become a blood sport every season for the AFL media in the past 5 to 10 years.
2) Was Scotty any good? I don't think he was there long enough to make a call. But no one here had to work with him or for him so we'll never really know.
3) If he was really no good and causing issues within the place we are better off with him gone, sooner rather than later.
4) The main issue is our playing list. The coach is irrelevant if the players are crap. Watters going doesn't effect the rebuilding of the list, so we stay our course, being plotted by a guy with a great history of managing successful playing lists.

5) BigMart - this is not all about you. You actually only seem happy if things aren't travelling as well as they could be. In fact your posting seemed to slow down as it became more apparent our trade period was going well. We are not in crisis, nor is the sky falling. We need to replace a coach. Everything else is little more than white noise. We hired a guy who turned out not to be what it said on the package. We aren't the first organisation to that and we won't be the last. We will get a new coach, and everyone will move on, and look for signs that the new guy is a good coach. Except you. You'll keep harping on about his predecessor and how we hired the wrong guy.

Great post TB, the one thing about the importance of the coach is I think at our stage and particularly this time of the year I think stability is important. While from what we hear SW had to go and that's understanding from the club but I don't think it's good not to have a coach ready to go for the draft and preseaso

[Con Gorozidis]

If the dwarf incident was truly a set up by the players then surely, it reflects as badly on them as it does on their coach. Perhaps worse.

Agree
I hope the sr players dont just completely escape responsibility for this episode.
Too many egos lost dreams and spooks.

And dont give me the 'but what about Melbourne' line. Complete footy myth.
Rivers 25 Moloney 25 Mclean 25 when they were axed. Nate Jones was only 25 when they overlooked him as Skipper.
Nothing could be done about Scully which was a purely financial decision which they were well compensated for.
The key here is to respect players at their peak who are actually doing the business for you.

To me that means Armo and Gears as joint skippers for the next 2 years.

Dont elevate youth too soon but dont idolise the past champs too much.

[3rd generation saint]

As I said in jest, if we were 0 and 2 next year, which means losses to Melbourne and GWS here in Melbourne, it would be terrible, would even be more disastrous if SW was still their.
The more I read and hear, the more I am agreeing with the board with the termination now.
I have also heard that it was virtually a dead heat between Watters and Hinkley for the spot, and they went for Watters.
Mind you hindsight is an amazing thing, plus with our list, I don't think Hinkley would have done much better, we may have won some of those close games, but then we wouldn't have pick 3.
As I said, I believe it is a two horse race between Harvey and Williams, and both will be given time, as expectations for next year wont be high.
As for Dermie's suggestion regarding Pelchen not being able to get another job, well, if whoever is captain in 2018 or 19 is holding up the premiership cup aloft, Pelchen is going to have a lot of job offers.

[Dave McNamara]

Our Pres needs to learn how to deal with the Jorno questions, they ate him for breakfast.

That remains the problem.

Our club is being pilloried by the baying media scrum/scum, yet Summers comes out, does nothing to justify the club's actions, and instead just increases the distrust in the (dis)functionality of our club!

No Peter, you don't have to air all the dirty laundry, but you do have to provide some justification beyond 'trust me'. (Though I guess that worked for Tony Abbott... ) You are the big corporate head. Surely this is just small time stuff to you. You'd have sorted much bigger issues at Jennings...

So just fricken fix it!!!


Re the journos' questions... it should have been worse. I was really frustrated that they didn't call him out on the insulting mushroom-fodder contradictions he was trying to dish out.

[dragit]

If the dwarf incident was truly a set up by the players then surely, it reflects as badly on them as it does on their coach. Perhaps worse.

Agree
I hope the sr players dont just completely escape responsibility for this episode.
Too many egos lost dreams and spooks.

Really?
Even if the dwarf joke was directed at Watters (which I don't think is the case), would it be that bad?
Poor taste maybe, but Watters jokes about his height himself…

There is no way in hell the players premeditated lighting a dwarfs pants, none.

Making fun of the boss on mad monday - won't somebody think of the children.

Montagna is only 3cm taller than Watters too btw, hardly someone in a position to genuinely ridicule people based on height.

What responsibility are you talking about Con? The fact that they didn't get along with Watters like every other person at the club?

[Dave McNamara]

Everyone has been asking me why Watters is no longer coach, what were the reasons behind his sacking.
I won't break any confidence but I will highlight some grabs of some of the articles from journos today, all of these bits are accurate, there is a lot more not reported and better that it doesn't come out.
The club have been measured at not baking Scott in public.

Here are only the truths taken out of each article as reported in the paper:

Sam Edmund and Scott Gullan - Herald Sun

* There were also increasing concerns over his coaching, particularly on match day, where frequently changing tactics and mixed messages were common.
* It came after Thompson’s review of the football department revealed an “endorsement that we have the right people in the right roles”. But in the weeks since the club had become convinced that Watters’ behaviour wasn’t going to change.

piss poor articles....anybody on here could have writen most of it.........no facts just reprinting rumours as fact...robbos article is however more believable whilst sam edmund's is laughable...he has dean bailey walking out on us ffs...

caro's article is just more of the same poisonous bulls***

...but in the end some of it somwhere, must be true.......just what i'm not sure of..as they each rubbish some of the issues put forward as fact by each other....

So true Sting!

Unfortunately..., not just the journos putting out contradictions...

This confusion needs to be cleared up and put straight..., then we can move on with our exciting list...
otherwise we risk being doomed to once again repeat the errors of history...

Peter Summers, you are our President... ball... court... your...

[Dave McNamara]

The reasons don't add up for me, it feels like power games right through the club....
I would hope the more that Jaxon has is more specific and cuts to the bone.

Well pointed out Mav!

All a bit too convenient isn't it?

One thing I'm confident of though... political maneuvering is not Cuddle's greatest forte... or maybe it is... but somebody is even better...?

If so, we needed him/her when we were negotiating over the pokies with those at Moorabbin Clown Hall a few years back.

[defacto]

Thanks jaxons
To me SW sounds like a Kevin Rudd style control freak egomaniac.
We should have interviewed some people at Subiaco before hiring him as we may have got some understanding.
Perhaps under someone as large as Malthouse he was able to cover and check his ego.
Once he got the main job the inner monster came out.

I still think the sr players need to take some responsibility and are also a bit deluded.

Memo to Joey - hiring a dwarf and copying the footy show isnt funny or original.
Chips - you arent a black american gangster and you are 31 years old. Get a grip.

Subiaco never had any issues with him. Nothing but glowing in praise from the admin to the players