Mark Fine

[joffaboy]

Nailed it johnny… It's not about whether or not Watters is any good… Fine has been purely inflammatory… and damaging… not helpful.

Different perspectives though.

Fine is in trouble with ratings. He needs to be "explosive" and controversial to get listeners. His strength was his unbias, fair and uncontroversial way of presenting his views on football.

Unfortunately he has changed this approach, he has become aggressive, and sometimes abusive to listeners who disagree with him.

I have switched off. Used to enjoy his programme, not just football but the other weekly segments.

Somebody posted his rant on Watters with the innuendo, and subterfuge, and absolute bsseless allegations. Then out of the blue he nominates Alan Richardson as our saviour.

I didn't hear his "big news in 72 hours" rant but it has seemed to have fallen flat.

Anyway, regardless of him being a Saints supporter, he has a duty to his advertisers and his livelyhood to try and keep his rating up.

As for Watters being nearly sacked. Wasn'yt that the purpose of the review (or one of the purposes)? To ascertain whether the club should go forward with the coach?

If the coach was so bad I doubt the board and president would have kept him on despite having a CEO ir not. They must have something to work with for next year and it is up to Watters to earn his money and improve.

If not he wont get an extension and he will be out.

[dragit]

now they can't both be right can they????

I think they can… it would depend on who you speak to I imagine… and who's view you regard as important…

I'm guessing that Pelchan, Watters, Riewoldt, Newnes, Hutchison, Thompson etc would all have very differing views of the clubs current situation… who you may know at the club would greatly influence your opinion.

[dragit]

Anyway, regardless of him being a Saints supporter, he has a duty to his advertisers and his livelyhood to try and keep his rating up.

That's fine, he has a job to do but… he I personally feel that he is abusing his close relationship with the club. Some things said in a private conversation have now been used to exploit ratings… Clearly he can not be trusted and should be kept away from the club now.

I can't imagine Brereton or Watson using information gleaned from private converstaions to lambast their own clubs.

Fine isn't a club legend, he's just another hanger-oner… if he can't be trusted with sensitive info, then I hope people stop speaking with him.

[tony74]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

[Dis Believer]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

Done. I live in Mornington and will indeed try and make some time to get down a few times between now and Christmas and watch a few of our exciting youngsters going though their paces and preparations.

[Dr Spaceman]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

Was thinking about it Tony, but only if the weather is fine. Then I heard some stories about the lack of parking at Seaford and I wouldn’t want to cop a fine. So if it’s fine by you, I may give it a miss.

Please don't think I’m a fine weather supporter, sorry, a fair weather supporter.

Rest assured I will fineally make it there one day

[joffaboy]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

Hi Tony74,

Thanks for your optimistic posts during this period.

Seems to be two camps on this.

I am sure the "truth" is somewhere in between.

Anyway the FACTS are this.

We contracted Watters for three years

At the end of this season there was an extensive review

At the conclusion of this review the club approved the continued employment of Scott Watter, Chris pelchan and probably a number of other employees of the STKFC.

Scott Watters was after an extension to his contract. The club has since rejected that proposal for the time being.

It was well reported that the new President sat down with both Watter and Pelchan, discussed the situation and the direction of the club, and it was reported that both bought into the direction enthusiastically.

Watters is contracted until the end of next season. He is under pressure to perform (like most people in most jobs). He will have KPI's he needs to fullfil, one, as outlined by Summers is NOT win/loss ratio, due to the club being in a state of transition.

Delaney
Savage
Bruce
Longer

All nominated to come to the STKFC (and all got there), while at the same time we picked up 3 dps in the top 20.

We lost two senior players in Dal Santo and McEvoy, however there was no senior player "walkout"

Now we have another young player nominating the STKFC as his destination of choice.

The football community is a small insular place.

If all the rumours were true, we would not have had this vote of confidence by young players and thier agents.

If all the rumours were true Watters would have been given his marching orders by the club regardless of whether we had a CEO or not.

The club has said to Watters - the ball is in your court, perform to our satisfaction in 2014 or update your resume for opportunities in 2015.

[Johnny Member]

For what it's worth, I despise how so many of the football media are 'supporters' of a club, and therefore aren't honest when it comes to that club.

I mean, having Hird on On The Couch was an insult to your intelligence whenever the topic of Essendon came up. Listening to McVeigh and Lloyd during the Essondon drug saga was embarrassing.


So Fine, in my opinion should not withhold things just because he's a Saints supporter. He's in the media, and has the responsibility to be transparent and up front.

As I said above, I despise people in the press outright lying because they have an allegiance to a club. It tears at the integrity of the person and entire football media.


So I don't have an issue with Fine being 'honest' about the Saints. He should be. And if he can't, he shouldn't be in the media.


But in this instance, he hasn't been honest at all.

[sasaint]

If all the rumours were true, we would not have had this vote of confidence by young players and thier agents.

If all the rumours were true Watters would have been given his marching orders by the club regardless of whether we had a CEO or not.

The club has said to Watters - the ball is in your court, perform to our satisfaction in 2014 or update your resume for opportunities in 2015.

Agree.

I am very confident of the leadership and direction that the club has taken. I think finances will be really tough and a real club focus this year too, but notwithstanding this it will be a great year to watch the team develop. Just get on board!

[jaxons]

Not one young player improved in 2013, except Steven and can someone tell me what our game style is at present?
What brand of footy do we stand for?

Players that improved in and through 2013:

1. Hickey
2. Steven
3. Ross
4. Lee
5. Geary
6. Newnes
7. Roberton
8. Gilbert (not young but back to his best)
9. Armitage
10. Webster
11. Murdoch
12. Wright
13. Saunders
14. Maister (huge improvement pre injury)
15. Minchington
16. Curren

There was improvement.

Our season was destroyed by injury to key personnel and inadequate depth in those positions - this particularly impacted our backline and we leaked goals.

Our game plan is not unlike those of other teams but with the team we had on the park with 6 to 10 young players each week was not experienced enough or fit enough (with one or two pre-seasons behind them) ... which is why we were competitive for a time but at the end of quarters and at the end of the match we were simply overrun.

So 16 players on our list improved their football and we were 3 wins from 20 rounds of football, 2 of those against GWS and Melbourne.
Interesting observation.
You say our game plan is not unlike most other teams, please tell me what that game plan is?
In your own words, what brand of footy do the Saints currently play?

[Cairnsman]

Not one young player improved in 2013, except Steven and can someone tell me what our game style is at present?
What brand of footy do we stand for?

Players that improved in and through 2013:

1. Hickey
2. Steven
3. Ross
4. Lee
5. Geary
6. Newnes
7. Roberton
8. Gilbert (not young but back to his best)
9. Armitage
10. Webster
11. Murdoch
12. Wright
13. Saunders
14. Maister (huge improvement pre injury)
15. Minchington
16. Curren

There was improvement.

Our season was destroyed by injury to key personnel and inadequate depth in those positions - this particularly impacted our backline and we leaked goals.

Our game plan is not unlike those of other teams but with the team we had on the park with 6 to 10 young players each week was not experienced enough or fit enough (with one or two pre-seasons behind them) ... which is why we were competitive for a time but at the end of quarters and at the end of the match we were simply overrun.

So 16 players on our list improved their football and we were 3 wins from 20 rounds of football, 2 of those against GWS and Melbourne.
Interesting observation.
You say our game plan is not unlike most other teams, please tell me what that game plan is?
In your own words, what brand of footy do the Saints currently play?

Improvement came in the form of new players being successfully introduced to the game of AFL. Do you think that the Gold Coast Suns players were improving in their first and second year of AFL? Did the Gold Coast Suns look like a much improved side in only their third season of AFL?

Can you please tell my in your own words what our game plan isn't and can you tell me in your own words what you think our brand of footy doesn't stand for?

[Spinner]

Not one young player improved in 2013, except Steven and can someone tell me what our game style is at present?
What brand of footy do we stand for?

Players that improved in and through 2013:

1. Hickey
2. Steven
3. Ross
4. Lee
5. Geary
6. Newnes
7. Roberton
8. Gilbert (not young but back to his best)
9. Armitage
10. Webster
11. Murdoch
12. Wright
13. Saunders
14. Maister (huge improvement pre injury)
15. Minchington
16. Curren

There was improvement.

Our season was destroyed by injury to key personnel and inadequate depth in those positions - this particularly impacted our backline and we leaked goals.

Our game plan is not unlike those of other teams but with the team we had on the park with 6 to 10 young players each week was not experienced enough or fit enough (with one or two pre-seasons behind them) ... which is why we were competitive for a time but at the end of quarters and at the end of the match we were simply overrun.

So 16 players on our list improved their football and we were 3 wins from 20 rounds of football, 2 of those against GWS and Melbourne.
Interesting observation.
You say our game plan is not unlike most other teams, please tell me what that game plan is?
In your own words, what brand of footy do the Saints currently play?

Apologies but that list is a very very far stretch.

Hickey/Lee/Murdoch/Wright/Suanders/Roberton weren't even on the list last year. Not sure how anyone can claim their improvement.

Minchington?

And Gilbert is the same player just in a worse team.

I think the true list would be Webster. Ross by a small margin. Current to a larger degree. Steven a new level and Armitage after what 8 years?

[samoht]

jaxons, RL saw the writing on the wall in 2011, the ineffectiveness of his game plan as we declined rapidly from 20 wins to 15 wins to 12 wins in successive years, then called it an "end of an era" and jumped ship.

SW is already standing for more than that.

Are you saying that SW should be doing better when other teams around us have been improving their lists?

Can't you see that RL's recycling policy and our recent success (without the benefit of top draft picks) is impacting us negatively?

Are you saying that SW doesn't have any game plan and should go?

Have you taken everything else into account?

[stinger]

Anyway, regardless of him being a Saints supporter, he has a duty to his advertisers and his livelyhood to try and keep his rating up.

That's fine, he has a job to do but… he I personally feel that he is abusing his close relationship with the club. Some things said in a private conversation have now been used to exploit ratings… Clearly he can not be trusted and should be kept away from the club now.

I can't imagine Brereton or Watson using information gleaned from private converstaions to lambast their own clubs.

Fine isn't a club legend, he's just another hanger-oner… if he can't be trusted with sensitive info, then I hope people stop speaking with him.

i agree with your comments...

[stinger]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

i'll be there....

[plugger66]

Players that improved in and through 2013:

1. Hickey
2. Steven
3. Ross
4. Lee
5. Geary
6. Newnes
7. Roberton
8. Gilbert (not young but back to his best)
9. Armitage
10. Webster
11. Murdoch
12. Wright
13. Saunders
14. Maister (huge improvement pre injury)
15. Minchington
16. Curren

There was improvement.

Our season was destroyed by injury to key personnel and inadequate depth in those positions - this particularly impacted our backline and we leaked goals.

Our game plan is not unlike those of other teams but with the team we had on the park with 6 to 10 young players each week was not experienced enough or fit enough (with one or two pre-seasons behind them) ... which is why we were competitive for a time but at the end of quarters and at the end of the match we were simply overrun.

Lets be honest if all those players improved during the year then we have some other real issues. If individuals improve but the side gets worse which it did then the game plan is stuffed. And yes we had a few injuries but apart hayes none to the most important area on the ground, the midfield. I have no idea if SW can coach or not yet but those saying he cant and those saying he can must have some sort of agendas because i cant see proof either way. happy for those on both sides to present arguements to prove it one way or another.

Lol improvement doesn't have to mean there yet. We have a long way to go but each of those players have improved under watters. Surely you agree

I actually didnt say any hadnt improved. They all may have but to me it shows that there are certainly areas in SW coaching that could get better. if they have all improved which most probably have and then to have lost 7 games more than last year shows maybe the game plan has a long way to go. Anyway i dont buy that all have improved because of the coach. They may or may not have just naturally improved. No way to prove it either way. And i also dont buy that SW is great or bad for devopment. Individuals may improve but i also class as development the team improving. This is a team game.

[plugger66]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

I have seen training in 1983, 2000 and 2009 and apart from the skill level the mood of the group always looked upbeat.

[Spinner]

At the end of the day - is what Mark Fine said been anything different to the rumblings of others and to what Caroline Wilson has detailed?

People may not like it, call it damaging. But if it's true - well responsibility falls with the club.

If that's what he believes and his sources stipulate - well great for him voicing. Reconciling with other media - doesn't sound like he was far off. I mean, the board basically deciding to sack SW (caro) the president confirming the issues between SW and CP (the president) the football review and maybe unrelated the CEO resigning.


Unless MF is downright lying - I'm fine with him calling out what he thinks or has insight into. Be upset for where the problem really lies. A little radio show "that apparently no one listens to similar to TFS" won't affect our membership to any significant degree to what our performances/incidents will do to ourselves.

[gringo]

I actually didnt say any hadnt improved. They all may have but to me it shows that there are certainly areas in SW coaching that could get better. if they have all improved which most probably have and then to have lost 7 games more than last year shows maybe the game plan has a long way to go. Anyway i dont buy that all have improved because of the coach. They may or may not have just naturally improved. No way to prove it either way. And i also dont buy that SW is great or bad for devopment. Individuals may improve but i also class as development the team improving. This is a team game.

They improved because they were given game time. Hickey was looking terrible at the start and obviously improved to the point I thought he was looking more promising than Mc Evoy. Armo and Steven had had much experience before the arrival of Watters because for what ever reason we kept a settled line up and didn't give them opportunity on field.

Watters has been noted by some very experienced AFL people as a good developer of young talent and there is no reason to doubt them yet. He is in a difficult situation where the older players are used to very defined roles under a Lyon GP. The Watters approach is probably based around maximising the exposure of the kids in a controlled way so comes off as erratic and like he's not gunning for wins.

Roberton must have improved or Lyon would have kept him, most of the second year kids looked like they stepped up. Rhys, Mc Evoy, Milne and Siposs are the only players I actually thought went backwards but there were reasons for a couple of those. I thought we probably improved but it's incremental when so many players have been turned over in a two year period. Polo, Raph and Peake would have helped stabilise the decline but they would not have stepped up to become stars. Jack Steven may never have become a B&F if we had kept playing those guys.

[Spinner]

I actually didnt say any hadnt improved. They all may have but to me it shows that there are certainly areas in SW coaching that could get better. if they have all improved which most probably have and then to have lost 7 games more than last year shows maybe the game plan has a long way to go. Anyway i dont buy that all have improved because of the coach. They may or may not have just naturally improved. No way to prove it either way. And i also dont buy that SW is great or bad for devopment. Individuals may improve but i also class as development the team improving. This is a team game.

They improved because they were given game time. Hickey was looking terrible at the start and obviously improved to the point I thought he was looking more promising than Mc Evoy. Armo and Steven had had much experience before the arrival of Watters because for what ever reason we kept a settled line up and didn't give them opportunity on field.

Watters has been noted by some very experienced AFL people as a good developer of young talent and there is no reason to doubt them yet. He is in a difficult situation where the older players are used to very defined roles under a Lyon GP. The Watters approach is probably based around maximising the exposure of the kids in a controlled way so comes off as erratic and like he's not gunning for wins.

Roberton must have improved or Lyon would have kept him, most of the second year kids looked like they stepped up. Rhys, Mc Evoy, Milne and Siposs are the only players I actually thought went backwards but there were reasons for a couple of those. I thought we probably improved but it's incremental when so many players have been turned over in a two year period. Polo, Raph and Peake would have helped stabilise the decline but they would not have stepped up to become stars. Jack Steven may never have become a B&F if we had kept playing those guys.

Roberton was leaving regardless. It's been noted many a time throughout the whole season it was for family reasons.

Some players went backwards - but there are reasons for those? But every improvement is due to Watters?

This feels like a nothing post. Saying something without saying anything.

[Cairnsman]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

I have seen training in 1983, 2000 and 2009 and apart from the skill level the mood of the group always looked upbeat.

That was all at Moorabbin, Tony74 is talking about Seaford, it's a much happier place, you should come down one day.

[joffaboy]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

I have seen training in 1983, 2000 and 2009 and apart from the skill level the mood of the group always looked upbeat.

That was all at Moorabbin, Tony74 is talking about Seaford, it's a much happier place, you should come down one day.

Why happier than Moorabbin? Better coffee???

[Johnny Member]

At the end of the day - is what Mark Fine said been anything different to the rumblings of others and to what Caroline Wilson has detailed?

It's absolutely different.

Read what Wilson has written, then listen to what Fine said.

Completely different.

[plugger66]

If you have a day off and are in the Seaford area come down to the oval and see the mood of the playing group. Quite a few will begin pre season Wednesday week with the majority coming back on Nov 18. Some of you may then walk away with a different view.

I have seen training in 1983, 2000 and 2009 and apart from the skill level the mood of the group always looked upbeat.

That was all at Moorabbin, Tony74 is talking about Seaford, it's a much happier place, you should come down one day.

To far for me just to watch guys smile.

[Cairnsman]

I have seen training in 1983, 2000 and 2009 and apart from the skill level the mood of the group always looked upbeat.

That was all at Moorabbin, Tony74 is talking about Seaford, it's a much happier place, you should come down one day.

Why happier than Moorabbin? Better coffee???

Better and more modern facility mostly from what I've heard but I think some of the older players that have either left the club or about to leave the club were not happy about the quality of coffee in Seaford but I've heard there is a new Cafe opening up in Seaford so the new guys might be able to develop their taste buds when it does.