Mark Fine

[magnifisaint]

Pissed off that the Saints can never pick the right coach!
The process seems never to be right, so who's to blame?

[Con Gorozidis]

Sounds all fair jb.
I assume the board have been more clear on the areas of improvement and how different priorities of different staff can be handled . lets hope they all see eye to eye even if they have some differences.
Noone expects a love in. As long as it has been handled well and not with hysteria and white anting.
Sounds like we have already moved on.
Sw is on notice but most coaches are on notice all the time.

I still say finey is full of crap. By all means he can criticise but dont play the ' i know secret stuff but im not telling what it is so just take my word for it ' garbage.

It is THE very thing he has spent years ralleying against.
Hypocrite of the highest order.
He should sod off and change to the Bombers.

[Con Gorozidis]

'We can never pick the right coach'
Always the coaches fault.
Always swinging from the search for a messiah and the search to demonise.
Maybe its the time the club grew up and stopped blaming the Coach and looking for an easy out.
Coaches are just one cog in the machine.
Sure an important cog but a cog nonetheless.
If the club had any balls they would have come out and admit they f***ed up with recruiting for 5 years.
Rather than just do the usual saints tactic of white anting the coach.

Finey has shown himself no better than the mug supporters he bullies and lambasts.
He is always scolding scathing and ridiculing people on air who call in and bag their own side and look at him go ?

Shameful bloke

[Austinnn]

'We can never pick the right coach'
Always the coaches fault.
Always swinging from the search for a messiah and the search to demonise.
Maybe its the time the club grew up and stopped blaming the Coach and looking for an easy out.
Coaches are just one cog in the machine.
Sure an important cog but a cog nonetheless.
If the club had any balls they would have come out and admit they f***ed up with recruiting for 5 years.
Rather than just do the usual saints tactic of white anting the coach.

Finey has shown himself no better than the mug supporters he bullies and lambasts.
He is always scolding scathing and ridiculing people on air who call in and bag their own side and look at him go ?

Shameful bloke

absolutely spot on Con

Didn't SW retain his job by the skin of his teeth after the review and was told to work on his management style..... I'd suggest he kept his job because they will wait for the next coach.... He was close to the chop.

Will will likely have an interim between R16 and 22 next year whilst we market for a new Coach

A few experience candidates will be looked at....

Finey made a big mistake for most who peruse this site
He made a honest and realistic criticism of a club in absolute turmoil ATT and it wasn't well received by supporters who wear a certain set of glasses...

The management of StK last season was woeful... In many respects... Argue against that, you're deaf, dumb and blind!

BM this is your GPS:

You have now entered Barks4eva territory.

Turn left at the next traffic lights and keep on going straight up your own behind.

[SaintPav]

Actually the one other reason I heard in the media is that Watters wanted to deal directly with the board and not through Pelican.

From what Summers said and the quotes, this has now been sorted.

So does Watters still report to Pelchan or to the board? I'm not sure how that would work.

What other clubs have this type of reporting arrangement?

[gringo]

I think he said a lot when Freo had won through to the grand final he claimed Ross Lyon had him at training sessions and made out he was an insider making it sound like he had an input. He suggested he had also been kept out since. I felt from what he said he felt he was part of the Lyon era and since then the people in charge don't let him have the same access.

I think it might have a wounded ego.

[saint-stu]

Actually the one other reason I heard in the media is that Watters wanted to deal directly with the board and not through Pelican.

From what Summers said and the quotes, this has now been sorted.

So does Watters still report to Pelchan or to the board? I'm not sure how that would work.

What other clubs have this type of reporting arrangement?

I'm basing this on Caro's article. I don't think we dreamed this up though. Probably copied from other clubs. They did ask Geelong about their structure.

Lethal was on SEN the other day saying he thinks first time coaches should not have to worry about list management, player welfare etc. and should just focus on coaching.

[Hallalj#3]

Al Clarkson will be our coach 2015.. That is all..

[magnifisaint]

Al Clarkson will be our coach 2015.. That is all..

In your dreams. Mind you he wasn't too flash in his first couple years

[Hallalj#3]

Al Clarkson will be our coach 2015.. That is all..

In your dreams. Mind you he wasn't too flash in his first couple years

No in reality.. It will all come together beautifully..

[Devilhead]

I am getting tired of all the people on here bagging people who have expressed an opinion on Watters and don't like it.

And many forumites are getting tired off people expressing a damning opinion and not backing it up with reasons

If you are prepared to express an opinion but not prepared to express the reasonings behind it then how can others take your opinion seriously??

IAmazing how everyone either wants to live with their head in the sand or bag people who know something and express their knowledge.

What do you know Jaxons about the Watters rumours - please express your knowledge as to why Watters should be sacked??

Help us to remove our heads from the sand

IPeople can't come out and give details as it is too unsettling.
Please respect that.

WTF!! Too unsettling??

What is unsettling is people insinuating problems without revealing what they are

Evidently the biggest threat to the club are self-important supposed insiders like yourself and Finey for spreading innuendo without being prepared to substantiate it

And you want respect??

[st.byron]

Lets face it, Watters wont be around when we next make the finals, and will probably not get an extension to his contract.

We will be looking for a new coach for the 2015 season.

Like anybody else Watters is not St.Kilda. I dont support a coach or a player, I support the club. If they think Watters ins't up to the job, it is up to the admin and president and make a decision and get rid of him.

If he gets an extension, all the rumour and scuttlebut will be seen as piss and wind.

I tend to think that the rumours about Watters is probably founded considering no extension was forthcoming.

He has the opportunity to toe the line following the review. If he cant or wont, he wont be our coach in 2015.

This. Joffa's assessment of the situation makes perfect sense.

The organisation has conducted a review, found things that need to be rectified and those that need to make changes have been notified.
Actual kudos to the club and especially Summers for acting so promptly after taking the reins.

I can understand people being frustrated about the 'rumblings without details', but if the details were made public, what would happen then?
More feeding on negativity. More bad publicity. Fine and his ilk are pushing their own barrow and doing no service to the club by their scandal-mongering, but it's out of the club's control and they are, it seems to me, acting like a professionally managed organisation with specified targets and a strategy to achieve them.

[saintly]

Like most here I'm not a club insider, but I know a few who recently were and still have close connections to current senior players and to ex-players who are hearing things from within the club. The consistent message I'm hearing is very negative toward the coach. I would love it if Tony74 is proven correct and everything is sweet, but there are enough rumblings to suggest this might not be the case. Fine is obviously hearing the same things and is reporting this. Regardless of his love for the club he's got a job to do on his radio show which is to chase ratings. He probably also thinks he's doing the club a favour in the long term in undermining the coach if he believes he's no good.

Agree with this.
Perhaps Pelchen and a couple of very senior players confronted board with a "him or us" ultimatum regarding Watters.,
In this scenario it would be safe to assume a huge bombshell in the next 72 hours, one way or the other.
Board then theoretically gets main players in the one room draws up a new set of guidelines going forward and asks if they can all live with the situation.
Just because everybody is still there does not mean there wasn't cause for concern in the first instance.

but i bet, there are a number of coaches, where not all the players get n well with the coach.

there usually 44 players in a team, and i can bet your bottom dollar, where would be rumblings about the coach from players in each club except those clubs that are in the finals.

[st.byron]

What is unsettling is people insinuating problems without revealing what they are

Evidently the biggest threat to the club are self-important supposed insiders like yourself and Finey for spreading innuendo without being prepared to substantiate it

And you want respect??

FFS Devilhead, Con, et al.....get over it.
Some people are closer to the club than you or me and know shyte we don't. They come onto the forum and let us know that things aren't all rosy but for reasons they judge to be sound, can't say exactly what the gory details are. I'm glad at least to have the info that's been given rather than spitting the dummy because everything's not being made public. There's an element of egotism in you expecting everything to be openly shared. Just accept some are closer to the club than you or I......

[gringo]

Bomber Thompson was banging one of the Geelong players wives and many of the players were about to mutiny. They had their session of saying their piece and they went on to be one of the most successful teams ever. Maybe Thompson getting sacked would have seen Johnson etc. traded out and that side would have never done anything.

[Devilhead]

Some people are closer to the club than you or me and know shyte we don't.

Shyte being the appropriate word

They come onto the forum and let us know that things aren't all rosy but for reasons they judge to be sound, can't say exactly what the gory details are.

But how can I judge them to be sound if I dont know what the gory details are??

But hey I am happy that you are wilfully prepared to accept unsubstantiated hearsay on a social forum that has the potential to effectively damage the club's immediate well being

Each to their own

I'm glad at least to have the info that's been given rather than spitting the dummy because everything's not being made public.

Seriously what's there to be happy about - you have unsubstantiated innuendo that is damging the club period

There's an element of egotism in you expecting everything to be openly shared. Just accept some are closer to the club than you or I......

If you have unsettling information about the club you have three choices

1 - reveal it with substantaited evidence
2 - reveal it without substantiated evidence
3 - dont reveal it

Jaxons and Finey chose 2

If I was in their position I would choose 3

Why would I pander to the likes of you if not to stoke my own ego and build up my reputation of being "In the know"

If you had the clubs best interest at heart then you would ...... Shut the F*** Up!!

[The Redeemer]

Al Clarkson will be our coach 2015.. That is all..

In your dreams. Mind you he wasn't too flash in his first couple years

Yeah exactly.

He was not expected to produce results via the ladder either.

Time people, time.

[Con Gorozidis]

Byron
You misconstrue egoism.
There is an element of egoism about saying trust me im in the know and take my word for it.
Just follow me on trust. Thats egoism.
I dont want all the gory details or anyone to give up their sources but we have not got a semblance of substance at all.
Im not going to join a hang mob based purely on a wink or nod from a self proclaimed insider.
Im not demanding equal knowledge nor do i expect it just something slightly above innuendo and a knudge before i get my noose out.
Hardly egoism on our part.

[satchmo]

Some people are closer to the club than you or me and know shyte we don't.

Shyte being the appropriate word

They come onto the forum and let us know that things aren't all rosy but for reasons they judge to be sound, can't say exactly what the gory details are.

But how can I judge them to be sound if I dont know what the gory details are??

But hey I am happy that you are wilfully prepared to accept unsubstantiated hearsay on a social forum that has the potential to effectively damage the club's immediate well being

Each to their own

I'm glad at least to have the info that's been given rather than spitting the dummy because everything's not being made public.

Seriously what's there to be happy about - you have unsubstantiated innuendo that is damging the club period

There's an element of egotism in you expecting everything to be openly shared. Just accept some are closer to the club than you or I......

If you have unsettling information about the club you have three choices

1 - reveal it with substantaited evidence
2 - reveal it without substantiated evidence
3 - dont reveal it

Jaxons and Finey chose 2

If I was in their position I would choose 3

Why would I pander to the likes of you if not to stoke my own ego and build up my reputation of being "In the know"

If you had the clubs best interest at heart then you would ...... Shut the F*** Up!!

Yes!

[st.byron]

Some people are closer to the club than you or me and know shyte we don't.

Shyte being the appropriate word

They come onto the forum and let us know that things aren't all rosy but for reasons they judge to be sound, can't say exactly what the gory details are.

But how can I judge them to be sound if I dont know what the gory details are??

But hey I am happy that you are wilfully prepared to accept unsubstantiated hearsay on a social forum that has the potential to effectively damage the club's immediate well being

Each to their own

I'm glad at least to have the info that's been given rather than spitting the dummy because everything's not being made public.

Seriously what's there to be happy about - you have unsubstantiated innuendo that is damging the club period

There's an element of egotism in you expecting everything to be openly shared. Just accept some are closer to the club than you or I......

If you have unsettling information about the club you have three choices

1 - reveal it with substantaited evidence
2 - reveal it without substantiated evidence
3 - dont reveal it

Jaxons and Finey chose 2

If I was in their position I would choose 3

Why would I pander to the likes of you if not to stoke my own ego and build up my reputation of being "In the know"

If you had the clubs best interest at heart then you would ...... Shut the F*** Up!!

Yeah fair enough I reckon I get where you're coming from. For me, I prefer to know that there are some 'issues' than not know at all. Take your point about it being unsubstantiated though. I go on gut feel and Jaxons doesn't strike me as someone pushing his own barrow too hard. Sure there's egotism too in coming on and saying, "I know something but I can't tell you what it is.......", but I have the feeling he's walking a line between letting genuine club supporters know something's up and not releasing info that could do more damage to the club. And in that I'd rather know something than nothing at all.
Also to me there's a big difference between the people posting on here for an audience of Saints' diehards and knobs like Fine who are broadcasting on radio. Haven't heard him myself but from what I've read on here, his motives seem based on self interest rather than the interests of the Saints.

[st.byron]

Byron
You misconstrue egoism.
There is an element of egoism about saying trust me im in the know and take my word for it.
Just follow me on trust. Thats egoism.
I dont want all the gory details or anyone to give up their sources but we have not got a semblance of substance at all.
Im not going to join a hang mob based purely on a wink or nod from a self proclaimed insider.
Im not demanding equal knowledge nor do i expect it just something slightly above innuendo and a knudge before i get my noose out.
Hardly egoism on our part.

Fair call Con. Good argument.
I don't reckon that Jaxons is calling for a hang mob. Doesn't give me that impression. Passing on info with as much detail as possible without doing damage to the club is how I read his posts.
Fine on the other hand, without having heard him myself, seems to be making shyte up and stirring up rumour without much consideration of the club's best interests.

[maverick]

I couldn't care less if fine was right or wrong on his info.
Sensationalising it on his show like that does nothing for his ratings (who cares about st Kilda) but kills the club for nothing more than his ego.

Tosser.

[CeilidhSaint]

If you lose games, players get annoyed, they look for others to blame, seldom themselves. If you lose games, coaches get sacked. If we start winning, everyone happy, if we keep losing, Watters gets sacked and more players will go at the end of the 2014 season. Simples.

[jaxons]

Byron
You misconstrue egoism.
There is an element of egoism about saying trust me im in the know and take my word for it.
Just follow me on trust. Thats egoism.
I dont want all the gory details or anyone to give up their sources but we have not got a semblance of substance at all.
Im not going to join a hang mob based purely on a wink or nod from a self proclaimed insider.
Im not demanding equal knowledge nor do i expect it just something slightly above innuendo and a knudge before i get my noose out.
Hardly egoism on our part.

Fair call Con. Good argument.
I don't reckon that Jaxons is calling for a hang mob. Doesn't give me that impression. Passing on info with as much detail as possible without doing damage to the club is how I read his posts.
Fine on the other hand, without having heard him myself, seems to be making shyte up and stirring up rumour without much consideration of the club's best interests.

Thanks St Byron....most of what you say is right.
Although disagree with you on Finey.
I think he is a mad saints man and did what he did because he knows things that make him believe that we need to change our coach.
I only want what is best for the Saints.
If the board think it is SW then so be it.
The problem is the board don't share this belief and would have acted but felt it was too unsettling with no CEO at the helm.
So we go into next year with a coach that the board and players don't want.
Even though we performed well at trade week it will be a long year until our board can manage the club properly.

[maverick]

Byron
You misconstrue egoism.
There is an element of egoism about saying trust me im in the know and take my word for it.
Just follow me on trust. Thats egoism.
I dont want all the gory details or anyone to give up their sources but we have not got a semblance of substance at all.
Im not going to join a hang mob based purely on a wink or nod from a self proclaimed insider.
Im not demanding equal knowledge nor do i expect it just something slightly above innuendo and a knudge before i get my noose out.
Hardly egoism on our part.

Fair call Con. Good argument.
I don't reckon that Jaxons is calling for a hang mob. Doesn't give me that impression. Passing on info with as much detail as possible without doing damage to the club is how I read his posts.
Fine on the other hand, without having heard him myself, seems to be making shyte up and stirring up rumour without much consideration of the club's best interests.

Thanks St Byron....most of what you say is right.
Although disagree with you on Finey.
I think he is a mad saints man and did what he did because he knows things that make him believe that we need to change our coach.
I only want what is best for the Saints.
If the board think it is SW then so be it.
The problem is the board don't share this belief and would have acted but felt it was too unsettling with no CEO at the helm.
So we go into next year with a coach that the board and players don't want.
Even though we performed well at trade week it will be a long year until our board can manage the club properly.

This is what I don't like, bad luck get on with it, tail does not wag the dog.