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jaxons wrote:I am getting tired of all the people on here bagging people who have expressed an opinion on Watters and don't like it.
Finey is in the know and loves the club.
He speaks to lots of Stk players regularly.
Amazing how everyone either wants to live with their head in the sand or bag people who know something and express their knowledge.
People can't come out and give details as it is too unsettling.
Please respect that.
Everything will surface soon.
That's all well and good but why is fine then allowed to attack those like caro, Hutchy, Barrett and co for doing what he has done? Going on a soap box like he did only benefits one side and that's Fineys ratings. It has hurt the clubs membership as brand already
I know what his 72 hour announcement was from his own producers mouth and it is hilarious to say the least!!!! Anyone with half a clue wouldn't have gone to air with it. That's why other media organisations didn't. It's so unbelievably amateurish I am surprised Finey still has the producer working for him. But hey if you are employing a producer that runs with twitter rumor then best of luck to ya
The reality his his ratings are shithouse. They need to be picked up to follow the rest of the growth at SEN. What I find unusual is the large share of SEN that 3aw owns.
jaxons wrote:I am getting tired of all the people on here bagging people who have expressed an opinion on Watters and don't like it.
Finey is in the know and loves the club.
He speaks to lots of Stk players regularly.
Amazing how everyone either wants to live with their head in the sand or bag people who know something and express their knowledge.
People can't come out and give details as it is too unsettling.
Please respect that.
Everything will surface soon.
If it's that unsettling and those that are in the know feel it is okay to bag the coach and suggest he should be sacked surely it is no wonder. that others not in the know, live with their heads in the sand. You don't know what you don't know. If it is going to surface soon enough then let's be done with it...wouldn't the off season be the time to do it?
Very hard to understand if you are out of the loop but passionate about the club.
This is crazy.
jaxons wrote:I am getting tired of all the people on here bagging people who have expressed an opinion on Watters and don't like it.
Finey is in the know and loves the club.
He speaks to lots of Stk players regularly.
Amazing how everyone either wants to live with their head in the sand or bag people who know something and express their knowledge.
People can't come out and give details as it is too unsettling.
Please respect that.
Everything will surface soon.
If it's that unsettling and those that are in the know feel it is okay to bag the coach and suggest he should be sacked surely it is no wonder. that others not in the know, live with their heads in the sand. You don't know what you don't know. If it is going to surface soon enough then let's be done with it...wouldn't the off season be the time to do it?
Very hard to understand if you are out of the loop but passionate about the club.
This is crazy.
The majority don't know anything, they've probably heard a rumor or two or one persons opinion, bought into it, got on the soap box and have now turned it into a self fulfilling prophecy
jaxons wrote:I am getting tired of all the people on here bagging people who have expressed an opinion on Watters and don't like it.
Finey is in the know and loves the club.
He speaks to lots of Stk players regularly.
Amazing how everyone either wants to live with their head in the sand or bag people who know something and express their knowledge.
People can't come out and give details as it is too unsettling.
Please respect that.
Everything will surface soon.
I don't think the issue is with bagging Watters. The issue is with bagging him in public like that, but
1. Not mentioning any specifics about the issues with Scott
2. Not identifying the source.
Even one of the above would have helped.
The way it is, we have no idea what the issue is, we have no idea if the source is credible. And the end result is just more bad publicity for the club.
If he's not going to mention these things he should STFU and wait until it does surface.
Eastern wrote:Mark Fine is trying to compete with Gerard Healey & Dwayne Russell on 3AW (and isn't making much of a mark). The 72 hour "Non Story" was no more than a ploy to get people to listen to the first hour of his show (when he goes head to head with Gerard & Dwayne).
His OPINION statement that Scott Watters should be sacked and replaced by Allan Richardson should be taken in context. Those who know of the mutual friends that Fine & Richardson share will understand.
Fine is rating very badly and SEN would have to be looking very closely at replacing him, and that is causing him to become more & more desperate to hold on to his job !!
especially when you have a mortgage and three kids.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Seriously jaxons tell us what it is is.
They arent opinions people.
Noone is providing opinions that noone likes.
This is how it goes
'I am Finey/jaxons<insert name here>
I have inside knowledge but I cant tell you what it is
I have some knowledge of something I am not willing to share
But just trust me on it and take it from me that SW is crap'
How is that an opinion?
Pure arrogance to expect people to just go along with it based on that and that alone.
Like some wink wink nudge nudge from someone as great as Finey si enough for all us fans to say - oh wow Finey has given us a wink wink and anudge nudge so yes lets all turn on the coach.
Cos that what you innuendo rmour mongering 'insiders' are doing'.
Provide some meat to the bones - or why bother coming on here and saying anything?
If Finey isnt prepared to add susbtance dont say anything
But dont go around with a wink wink nudge nudge inference that 'know' stuff and that on pure trust thats all that is required to get people onboard.
The height of arrogance and purely contemptuous of your audience.
I ahve even tried to give people categories to say how bad he is and you cant even do that.
The follwoing would be an opinion.
'The players dont like SW because hes is:
-short
-has a bad game plan
- told us off when we acted like kids
-doesnt understand the modern training
Something. Give us something! Dont just expect us to take you at your word because you know about a couple of trades.
Seriously jaxons tell us what it is is.
They arent opinions people.
Noone is providing opinions that noone likes.
This is how it goes
'I am Finey/jaxons<insert name here>
I have inside knowledge but I cant tell you what it is
I have some knowledge of something I am not willing to share
But just trust me on it and take it from me that SW is crap'
How is that an opinion?
Pure arrogance to expect people to just go along with it based on that and that alone.
Like some wink wink nudge nudge from someone as great as Finey si enough for all us fans to say - oh wow Finey has given us a wink wink and anudge nudge so yes lets all turn on the coach.
Cos that what you innuendo rmour mongering 'insiders' are doing'.
Provide some meat to the bones - or why bother coming on here and saying anything?
If Finey isnt prepared to add susbtance dont say anything
But dont go around with a wink wink nudge nudge inference that 'know' stuff and that on pure trust thats all that is required to get people onboard.
The height of arrogance and purely contemptuous of your audience.
I ahve even tried to give people categories to say how bad he is and you cant even do that.
The follwoing would be an opinion.
'The players dont like SW because hes is:
-short
-has a bad game plan
- told us off when we acted like kids
-doesnt understand the modern training
Something. Give us something! Dont just expect us to take you at your word because you know about a couple of trades.
jaxons wrote:.
He speaks to lots of Stk players regularly.
.
did he think to check with a Board member or an admin member or some one from the other side of the debate--- even handed information is what most people like
or atleast both sides - present them evenly and then let the public decide which side to take--
check the sources-- and that those said sources aren't just having bad reaction to a bad /tough year where the workplace guidelines changed significantly....
one small comment from another SEN presenter ( former footballer who may have an idea of how the feelings in a playing group may run) was the opposite- ( he suggested that the younger players were very happy with Scott) to that expressed by Mark--- but it was blustered over by his co-presenter who really wanted to go the ' saints disarray' line-- -
Seriously jaxons tell us what it is is.
They arent opinions people.
Noone is providing opinions that noone likes.
This is how it goes
'I am Finey/jaxons<insert name here>
I have inside knowledge but I cant tell you what it is
I have some knowledge of something I am not willing to share
But just trust me on it and take it from me that SW is crap'
How is that an opinion?
Pure arrogance to expect people to just go along with it based on that and that alone.
Like some wink wink nudge nudge from someone as great as Finey si enough for all us fans to say - oh wow Finey has given us a wink wink and anudge nudge so yes lets all turn on the coach.
Cos that what you innuendo rmour mongering 'insiders' are doing'.
Provide some meat to the bones - or why bother coming on here and saying anything?
If Finey isnt prepared to add susbtance dont say anything
But dont go around with a wink wink nudge nudge inference that 'know' stuff and that on pure trust thats all that is required to get people onboard.
The height of arrogance and purely contemptuous of your audience.
I ahve even tried to give people categories to say how bad he is and you cant even do that.
The follwoing would be an opinion.
'The players dont like SW because hes is:
-short
-has a bad game plan
- told us off when we acted like kids
-doesnt understand the modern training
Something. Give us something! Dont just expect us to take you at your word because you know about a couple of trades.
Actually, the one bit of substance I've heard relates to game plan. As in he has multiple game plans and chops and changes them a lot, often in the course of a quarter let alone a game, and apparently this confuses the players. This actually sounds pretty weak to me. My gut feel is that it's just some whinging by senior players who are feeling put out for whatever reason. But the whinging is definitely out there.
Darth Vader wrote:My gut feel is that it's just some whinging by senior players who are feeling put out for whatever reason. But the whinging is definitely out there.
Yep. Me too...I've seen it...and it's happening out on the field
The captain has been flapping his arms around and seems very frustrated
Maybe he believes he knows more than the coaches. Maybe he thinks he'd be a better selector than the match committee or maybe.....Its a situation a bit like Heath Shaw and eventually the coach and the other players will be frustrated and tired of it too
Back on topic..."Is a flog" needs to be added to the heading please
Personally, I think it's naive to expect a fan forum of a public organisation to be free from criticism and I don't think anyone really wants that anyway.
Why many of us object to Mark Fine, his producer Tim Rosen and other recent outspoken critics of the club is that they appear to be basing their serious allegations on nothing of great substance. If - and it is a big if - the allegations turn out to be true, then many will still be upset at the way Fine & co potted his own club. Who can think of other media performers who support other clubs that do the same. The pies had Eddie McGuire; how did we end up with Mark Fine? Whatever you think of McGuire, before he was president he never bagged the club, he actually acted and did something positive. Maybe Fine is trying to build that momentum up to make a tilt for the presidency. Frankly I hope that this never happens.
Our problem is that our position is so insecure. Many of us Saints fans live with the fear that one day our club will be terminated like a critically ill hospital patient. Essendon can survive a decade on the bottom of the table and frequent board level changes and still remain strong. The Blues can cheat and bumble their way to a few wooden spoons and still have strong membership. Even Hawthorn, who were tabled to merge at one stage, never really had much to worry about.
All the big 4, plus Geelong & Hawks dont think their club will ever go under, so they can afford a few years at the bottom, they'll cone up roses after a little hiatus in Spoonland or Draft Pick Island as it's been renamed.
Us on the other hand: it feels like we are almost back to where we were before Butterss and co took over. Scrounging for members, one more scandal away from the AFL repackaging us as New Zealand's first AFL club the Wellington Saints. Rival supporters line up to tell us how unprofessional we are, how we'll always be nothing. What young kid would want to start supporting a club that everyone says are a hopeless rabble? And where do those naysayers get their fuel for this dispiriting slagging of Saint Kilda? From journalists like Caroline Wilson and also from media loudmouths like Mark Fine. Mark Fine may well support the Saints, so what? He is doing nothing to help his club and everything to hinder it. If he reported the facts in a neutral way, we'd stand a chance, but it must be difficult, because not even supposed pros like Wilson can do that, not even report without colouring the facts with her own accumulated distaste for our organisation.
Personally, I'd hope our new pres and future CEO are working on putting us in a secure enough position that all the barbs Fine and Wilson and co can throw our way wouldn't make a dent, a la Collingwood. 50000 membes, 35000 st Kilda fans at each home game, huge tv viewing numbers for all saints games. Then Fine can say what he wants. Til then, maybe he should ask bot what his club can do for him, but what he can do for his club.
Just My Opinion
------------------------------------------------
Lets face it, Watters wont be around when we next make the finals, and will probably not get an extension to his contract.
We will be looking for a new coach for the 2015 season.
Like anybody else Watters is not St.Kilda. I dont support a coach or a player, I support the club. If they think Watters ins't up to the job, it is up to the admin and president and make a decision and get rid of him.
If he gets an extension, all the rumour and scuttlebut will be seen as piss and wind.
I tend to think that the rumours about Watters is probably founded considering no extension was forthcoming.
He has the opportunity to toe the line following the review. If he cant or wont, he wont be our coach in 2015.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
Austinnn wrote:Personally, I think it's naive to expect a fan forum of a public organisation to be free from criticism and I don't think anyone really wants that anyway.
Why many of us object to Mark Fine, his producer Tim Rosen and other recent outspoken critics of the club is that they appear to be basing their serious allegations on nothing of great substance. If - and it is a big if - the allegations turn out to be true, then many will still be upset at the way Fine & co potted his own club. Who can think of other media performers who support other clubs that do the same. The pies had Eddie McGuire; how did we end up with Mark Fine? Whatever you think of McGuire, before he was president he never bagged the club, he actually acted and did something positive. Maybe Fine is trying to build that momentum up to make a tilt for the presidency. Frankly I hope that this never happens.
Our problem is that our position is so insecure. Many of us Saints fans live with the fear that one day our club will be terminated like a critically ill hospital patient. Essendon can survive a decade on the bottom of the table and frequent board level changes and still remain strong. The Blues can cheat and bumble their way to a few wooden spoons and still have strong membership. Even Hawthorn, who were tabled to merge at one stage, never really had much to worry about.
All the big 4, plus Geelong & Hawks dont think their club will ever go under, so they can afford a few years at the bottom, they'll cone up roses after a little hiatus in Spoonland or Draft Pick Island as it's been renamed.
Us on the other hand: it feels like we are almost back to where we were before Butterss and co took over. Scrounging for members, one more scandal away from the AFL repackaging us as New Zealand's first AFL club the Wellington Saints. Rival supporters line up to tell us how unprofessional we are, how we'll always be nothing. What young kid would want to start supporting a club that everyone says are a hopeless rabble? And where do those naysayers get their fuel for this dispiriting slagging of Saint Kilda? From journalists like Caroline Wilson and also from media loudmouths like Mark Fine. Mark Fine may well support the Saints, so what? He is doing nothing to help his club and everything to hinder it. If he reported the facts in a neutral way, we'd stand a chance, but it must be difficult, because not even supposed pros like Wilson can do that, not even report without colouring the facts with her own accumulated distaste for our organisation.
Personally, I'd hope our new pres and future CEO are working on putting us in a secure enough position that all the barbs Fine and Wilson and co can throw our way wouldn't make a dent, a la Collingwood. 50000 membes, 35000 st Kilda fans at each home game, huge tv viewing numbers for all saints games. Then Fine can say what he wants. Til then, maybe he should ask bot what his club can do for him, but what he can do for his club.
Still words like 'rumours' 'allegations ' and 'toe the line'
Can someone please tell me what they are ?
So far i have only heard
1. Too many game plans
2. The b and f speech where he stated that we finished 2nd in two gfs.
3. Confusion over Milnes status after Milne was charged with rape.
4. Dispute with Fisher over travel plans
5. Dispute with Pelchen over long term draft planning
Unless I am missing something - only number 1. can be placed at Scott's feet as a genuine criticism and everyone hated Lyons game plan in the first two years. The players and fans.
Doesn't matter Con what the issues are, Watters has been passed from the review, but didn't get a contract extension.
He is on notice. Results wont matter next year and the board relayed by Summers has said they have factored that in.
Watters has to change the problems outlined in the review. He has been said to have bought in to what Summers presented to him.
So he needs to improve. If he wants a contract extension. THis is obvious.
And there is nothing at all wrong with that. Dont worry about rumours and some senior players arcing up.
No mass exodus
Not one player asked to leave (except maybe for Dal Santo).
All players signed
Four new promising players especially Savage, Longer and Bruce
Two of those ready made for seniors Delaney and Savage
3 top new mids
All OK, except Watters knows he needs to improve.
Lance or James??
There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in <redacted>. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a <redacted>investigation followed by <redacted> witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for <redacted>and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. (Oops just got a spontaneous errection <unredacted>)
1. Too many game plans
2. The b and f speech where he stated that we finished 2nd in two gfs.
3. Confusion over Milnes status after Milne was charged with rape.
4. Dispute with Fisher over travel plans
5. Dispute with Pelchen over long term draft planning
They are all quite weak reasons in my opinion too.
BigMart wrote:Those who don't think Mark Fine is a Saint
Don't know much?!
Oh, that's right he criticised some things happening which he felt were poor... And he cannot give a negative opinion?!
These may well be his opinions, that he is entirled to, but are they broadcast for any reason other than to increase ratings?
What possible good does it do to air them in public? Will it lead to changes? What if the information he has recieved is wrong?
By regularly having a go at the club on air he is only helping to destablise the place and make it even harder to recruit players, members & sponsors.
So what is he, just a fan like us but one with a radio show, actually trying to achieve?
So basically you are suggesting that you do not want to listen or read of negative opinions of our football club but you are happy to read or listen to said opinions about every other?
joffaboy wrote:Lets face it, Watters wont be around when we next make the finals, and will probably not get an extension to his contract.
We will be looking for a new coach for the 2015 season.
Like anybody else Watters is not St.Kilda. I dont support a coach or a player, I support the club. If they think Watters ins't up to the job, it is up to the admin and president and make a decision and get rid of him.
If he gets an extension, all the rumour and scuttlebut will be seen as piss and wind.
I tend to think that the rumours about Watters is probably founded considering no extension was forthcoming.
He has the opportunity to toe the line following the review. If he cant or wont, he wont be our coach in 2015.
Welcome to planet sensible re Watters Joffaboy.
Spot on!
but saying his nextyear of Current contract will make or break -- as is anyone on a contract in any employment under the same.
is differant to saying ' he must be sacked'''''...............
and yes Mark F did say even at the end of his week of ranting' that in all likely hood Scott would see out his contract-- he put it in such a way that it was an afterthought to ' being even handed' rather than presenting both sides.
Fine would appear to have been more destructive towards the club than anyone he is talking about.
He is trying to make the impression that StKilda is in turmoil.
If it is, or is not the case, publicising this does not help the team I love and support.
In publicising it he has joined sides with a side of the internal politics of the club which is not in the overall interest of the club.
We are all happy for him to have an opinion and we can all cope if it is negative or critical but its not.
Its the oh i have an opinion and it is negative but i cant tell you what it is or what its based on because its all inside info hush hush wink wink but just take my word for it that i have it on good authority yada yada crap crap that gives us all the s***s.
If he just said watters is no good because of x we can all take that.
But that aint what he is doing.
Where is the opinion?
Where is the op ed piece ? The quotes ? The story ???
We have nothing. Just rants and raves and slyness.
Didn't SW retain his job by the skin of his teeth after the review and was told to work on his management style..... I'd suggest he kept his job because they will wait for the next coach.... He was close to the chop.
Will will likely have an interim between R16 and 22 next year whilst we market for a new Coach
A few experience candidates will be looked at....
Finey made a big mistake for most who peruse this site
He made a honest and realistic criticism of a club in absolute turmoil ATT and it wasn't well received by supporters who wear a certain set of glasses...
The management of StK last season was woeful... In many respects... Argue against that, you're deaf, dumb and blind!
