Billy Longer

[plugger66]

Really if we want Longer, which I dont and said why, whats the difference between 19 and 25? At that area of picks it gets down to your recruiting staff. I still think we will get him at the igher pick but lets be honest it doesnt really matter.

[maverick]

Why don't you want him?
Have you seen much of him?
I agree not much in picks value.

[plugger66]

Why don't you want him?
Have you seen much of him?
I agree not much in picks value.

I have said the reasons. I dont think 2 rucks who havent proven they can play forward works in footy these days. I didnt want to lose Ben but once we did i thought at least we will have only one ruckman in the side now which is the way footy is played especially since we have Stanley also playing.

I have seen him maybe 3 or 4 times. i saw him in one game where he did very well but it doesnt change my mond on the ruck situation. No one has given me a forward line and how it works if both play. Some have said we just develop him in the seconds but still dont see hoe that works when he deserves a game. Anyway we have him so lets hope it works.

[ace]

We have some real bargaining power with the No 3 pre season draft pick.
Melbourne and GWS will eventually commit to a player they really want.
GWS wont waste their pre season pick trying to hang on to a reluctant player.

Then we can threaten to do likewise.
Trade us your player for peanuts or you will starve when we take him for free in the pre season draft.

We now have picks
3
18
19
25
41
95
113

One or both 95 and 113 are most likely only to be used to upgrade rookies but someone first has to be delisted.
We had 40 players on the peramanent senior/veteran list
We presently have 5 clear slots on the senior list for next year.

Given we will use one pick in the preseason draft that leaves the following National draft picks already activated.
3
18
19
25
Expect at least one more delisting to activate 41

We can offer Brisbane pick 25 for Billy Longer
We can offer GWS pick 41 for Bruce
Don't take our offer and we take him for free via the pre season draft.

[lloyd21]

Hope it is a TDL payout myself

[maverick]

Why don't you want him?
Have you seen much of him?
I agree not much in picks value.

I have said the reasons. I dont think 2 rucks who havent proven they can play forward works in footy these days. I didnt want to lose Ben but once we did i thought at least we will have only one ruckman in the side now which is the way footy is played especially since we have Stanley also playing.

I have seen him maybe 3 or 4 times. i saw him in one game where he did very well but it doesnt change my mond on the ruck situation. No one has given me a forward line and how it works if both play. Some have said we just develop him in the seconds but still dont see hoe that works when he deserves a game. Anyway we have him so lets hope it works.

Quality players find a way, on paper you wouldn't think Cox and Nic Nat would work either...
Not that they are in that category....but you never know....
Personally, I think they always had the idea of trading out ben when they picked up Hickey, but Longer is such a quality player that can't be passed up...

I thought we wanted tall mids....

[Con Gorozidis]

I think I am happy with Longer - but I remain in a state of utter confusion regarding Stanley and his place on our list if we did get Longer.

[Linton Street Saint]

I think I am happy with Longer - but I remain in a state of utter confusion regarding Stanley and his place on our list if we did get Longer.

Really not that difficult has the speed and agility to play anywhere. Hell work on his endurance and play him on the wing.

Benefits of being a quality athlete.

[BigMart]

Full agreeance with P66 on the ruck situation.... Why 2 genuine ruckmen? One sitting in the cold, as back up... Why would anyone pour resources into a back up?

However
I really rate Longer.... Big skilled Lad, and plays big and moves well.... Possibly future A Grade

Don't rate Hickey at all.... No big man presence around the ground.. ... He's slight and isn't a natural footballer IMO

His recruitment was a mistake IMO

[gringo]

Full agreeance with P66 on the ruck situation.... Why 2 genuine ruckmen? One sitting in the cold, as back up... Why would anyone pour resources into a back up?

However
I really rate Longer.... Big skilled Lad, and plays big and moves well.... Possibly future A Grade

Don't rate Hickey at all.... No big man presence around the ground.. ... He's slight and isn't a natural footballer IMO

His recruitment was a mistake IMO

Hickey was good IMO and looked close to knocking Mc Evoy out of the first ruck role. He is quicker and has a good jump. He seems pretty good over all. Longer is about 2 years behind Hickey and is considered capable of playing as a ruck forward. We had no rucks at one point. Geelong often have 4 good rucks at any one time. Hawks had about 4 that were always injured. Hawks played with Hale, Bailey and Roughy who can play if needed. They have a couple of others on the list too.

[dragit]

You can't just have one on the list… one will inevitably get injured anyway.

If Pyke gets inured next year, Sydney are stuffed now that Mumford has left.

There's a reason nearly every club has at least 2 genuine rucks ready to go… so you don't end up with a Blake/Maiser/Gilbert type taking hitouts.

If Longer pushes Hickey out of the side… so be it.

[BigMart]

Hicky was nowhere near Ben.... Statistically a mile off...

In 12 games
He took less than one contested mark per game (the big stat for a Ruckman)
He managed 20 hit outs in 1 of his games
He averaged .5 goals
He got >10 touches 5 times
He is listed 2013 as 87kg.... Not accurate, but he'd be lucky to be much over 90... At 201cm that's Josh Fraser build

He is only young.... But he just doesn't read the game well or have presence IMO

My opinion only... But I saw him as a back up Ruckman, worth about pick 50

[bozza1980]

I have said the reasons. I dont think 2 rucks who havent proven they can play forward works in footy these days.

You are right, you can't have two ruckmen that can't play forward in the same side.

Stats don't support my opinion that Hickey will prove to be a solid forward option when resting off the ball and I have no idea about how good, bad or indifferent Longer is, so your reservations about both recruitments may be well be proven correct.

However, just on what I have read (I know, you can't trust everything you read) the club's attraction to Longer rests on a belief that he can be a threat up forward.

Time will tell....

[Richter]

Really if we want Longer, which I dont and said why, whats the difference between 19 and 25? At that area of picks it gets down to your recruiting staff. I still think we will get him at the igher pick but lets be honest it doesnt really matter.

I am not a draft watcher myself, but I have heard it stated by those that are that the draft comes in 3 tranches of talent this year. Top 5 (Boyd, Aish, Kelly, Scharenburg, Billings) then 6-20 are about the same level of talent and then a steep drop to the next tranche of 20 players then after 40 there is not much talent. Hence St Kildas recruiting view might well be that there is not much difference between say pick 10 and pick 18/19 but there is a big difference between 19 and 25.

[stinger]

I am not a draft watcher myself, but I have heard it stated by those that are that the draft comes in 3 tranches of talent this year. Top 5 (Boyd, Aish, Kelly, Scharenburg, Billings) then 6-20 are about the same level of talent and then a steep drop to the next tranche of 20 players then after 40 there is not much talent. Hence St Kildas recruiting view might well be that there is not much difference between say pick 10 and pick 18/19 but there is a big difference between 19 and 25.

think you are spot on....

[dragit]

Hicky was nowhere near Ben.... Statistically a mile off...

In 12 games
He took less than one contested mark per game (the big stat for a Ruckman)
He managed 20 hit outs in 1 of his games
He averaged .5 goals
He got >10 touches 5 times
He is listed 2013 as 87kg.... Not accurate, but he'd be lucky to be much over 90... At 201cm that's Josh Fraser build

He is only young.... But he just doesn't read the game well or have presence IMO

My opinion only... But I saw him as a back up Ruckman, worth about pick 50

I think everyone would agree that he is a mile off at this stage, but the stats you are referencing are pointless unless you can divide them into A game time & B time spent in the ruck.

Very much learning the caper and is what, 70-odd games behind Ben?

We might have paid overs, but it's hard to measure when it involves a multi-pick deal

Hickey & White came for 13... (plus TDL who should have been Membrey.)

[Old Mate]

jaxons I see you lurking the forums....give us an update mate!

[plugger66]

Really if we want Longer, which I dont and said why, whats the difference between 19 and 25? At that area of picks it gets down to your recruiting staff. I still think we will get him at the igher pick but lets be honest it doesnt really matter.

I am not a draft watcher myself, but I have heard it stated by those that are that the draft comes in 3 tranches of talent this year. Top 5 (Boyd, Aish, Kelly, Scharenburg, Billings) then 6-20 are about the same level of talent and then a steep drop to the next tranche of 20 players then after 40 there is not much talent. Hence St Kildas recruiting view might well be that there is not much difference between say pick 10 and pick 18/19 but there is a big difference between 19 and 25.

I reckon the chances of just about everyone getting the same 20 players in a million to one. if may go sort of as you said but there will be 4 or 5 taken in the top 20 that will be surprises. happens every year even when they say the draft is as you said. Obviously no way of proving it though. i suppose my point is if Longer is that good you wouldnt lose him for 6 picks no matter how the draft is. Anyway still think we will get him at 25. there is no rush.

[spert]

Hicky was nowhere near Ben.... Statistically a mile off...

In 12 games
He took less than one contested mark per game (the big stat for a Ruckman)
He managed 20 hit outs in 1 of his games
He averaged .5 goals
He got >10 touches 5 times
He is listed 2013 as 87kg.... Not accurate, but he'd be lucky to be much over 90... At 201cm that's Josh Fraser build

He is only young.... But he just doesn't read the game well or have presence IMO

My opinion only... But I saw him as a back up Ruckman, worth about pick 50

Hickey will improve and build up over the next couple of seasons, but Ben went backwards in 2013 I reckon. Hickey is better below his knees than Ben, and looks a better prospect at this early stage in his career.

[gringo]

Really if we want Longer, which I dont and said why, whats the difference between 19 and 25? At that area of picks it gets down to your recruiting staff. I still think we will get him at the igher pick but lets be honest it doesnt really matter.

I am not a draft watcher myself, but I have heard it stated by those that are that the draft comes in 3 tranches of talent this year. Top 5 (Boyd, Aish, Kelly, Scharenburg, Billings) then 6-20 are about the same level of talent and then a steep drop to the next tranche of 20 players then after 40 there is not much talent. Hence St Kildas recruiting view might well be that there is not much difference between say pick 10 and pick 18/19 but there is a big difference between 19 and 25.

I reckon the chances of just about everyone getting the same 20 players in a million to one. if may go sort of as you said but there will be 4 or 5 taken in the top 20 that will be surprises. happens every year even when they say the draft is as you said. Obviously no way of proving it though. i suppose my point is if Longer is that good you wouldnt lose him for 6 picks no matter how the draft is. Anyway still think we will get him at 25. there is no rush.

I agree especially with this draft there are some that are really hard to place. Some are going to slide and some will jump up the order. Guys like Sheed and Crouch could go early or slide. Mc Carthy could bolt because he is one of the few key forwards.

[howlinwolf]

Could we shoot ourselves in the foot by holding out for both Bruce and Longer for the picks we've offered ?
If the Lions and GWS call our bluff we can't pick them both up in the PSD ?

[lloyd21]

yes we can.

*********************** Salary Cap *********************** no one can touch us with amount of Senior players off the payroll

[WinnersOnly]

Could we shoot ourselves in the foot by holding out for both Bruce and Longer for the picks we've offered ?
If the Lions and GWS call our bluff we can't pick them both up in the PSD ?

No because GWS want pick #25 if Brisbane don't take it for Longer it will go to GWS for Bruce and then Longer through to PSD, or the contrary should Brisbane take #25 and GWS wont take #41.

[Jacks Back]

Really if we want Longer, which I dont and said why, whats the difference between 19 and 25? At that area of picks it gets down to your recruiting staff. I still think we will get him at the igher pick but lets be honest it doesnt really matter.

I am not a draft watcher myself, but I have heard it stated by those that are that the draft comes in 3 tranches of talent this year. Top 5 (Boyd, Aish, Kelly, Scharenburg, Billings) then 6-20 are about the same level of talent and then a steep drop to the next tranche of 20 players then after 40 there is not much talent. Hence St Kildas recruiting view might well be that there is not much difference between say pick 10 and pick 18/19 but there is a big difference between 19 and 25.

I reckon the chances of just about everyone getting the same 20 players in a million to one. if may go sort of as you said but there will be 4 or 5 taken in the top 20 that will be surprises. happens every year even when they say the draft is as you said. Obviously no way of proving it though. i suppose my point is if Longer is that good you wouldnt lose him for 6 picks no matter how the draft is. Anyway still think we will get him at 25. there is no rush.

You know the same things gonna happen with us as it always does at the draft table. We take forever and fumble through our papers before eventually picking someone.

[sainters man]

I don't get why people are saying if Longer comes...Stanley's position is questionable?? He is nearly the quickest on our list and could play on a wing/forward flank/forward pocket - anywhere with his pace...People think because he has height he is a dinosaur..wrong