Why do all these dudes suddenly want to come to the Saints?

[saintspremiers]

Brisbane are a rabble..... Worse than us... As I stated in a post elsewhere...

We would be an attractive club for a kid

Money and opportunity like 2001-2003..... Believe it or not, more attractive then and more attractive
Now than 2009-2011.... Ask Armo, Tom Lynch and Jack

There's no money and opportunity if the club folds!

If we were to fold another new club would need to take our place due to broadcast rights. Very expensive exercise for the AFL. Much cheaper just to bail us out!

[joffaboy]

But what about Seaford? What about the infighting? The culture??!!

I thought that half our list were looking for the exit! Half of them hate Seaford - the other half dislike it!


But not only has no one left, we have young dudes trying to get in.


It doesn't add up.

Apparently we have recruited a barista so everything is fine or Fine.

[matrix]

they know eventually we'll be back 'home'

either that or we have the bestest drugs

[joffaboy]

What?

So three fringe players coming over.... Billy Longer coming home is proof we are in a strong position as a club

Delaney is fringe.

I would not rate Bruce, Savage or Longer as fringe.

Four players have put down the Saints as preferred destination.

Savage, Longer and Bruce all had other clubs interested (dont know about Delaney).

If the club was in such bad shape, surely their managers would have told them not to deal with the Saints, it is a rabble, in dissarray, players wanting out, coach about to be sacked etc.

Somehow none of this happened. One player traded (for a mid and a first round pick) another given FA (for #25 and the Delaney deal), no coach sacked, no mass revolt of senior players, seemingly player managers happy to deal with the Saints.

Our list is in a bad way as far as competitiveness goes, but administratively, the club seems to be in pretty good shape, regardless of the rumour mongering and sabotage attempted by some supposed Saints people.

Unfortunately some people took the lies and rumour as fact and ran with it.

Seems they have a bit of egg on their face.

We have gaping holes in our Salary Cap to offer some guys some nice contracts... We have holes in our team to give opportunities...

lol - never heard SC room as "gaping holes"

Look at the key indicators of the club to judge it's position

OK. Not sure on the veracity of your KPI's however lets go

Ladder Position

In our current context this is not a KPI in itself. It is a MPI for the coming season and not what the club would consider important

Finances

In the real world, Finances would be a KPI, however in the artificial world of AFL Commission "equalisation" it doesn't mean as much as a regular enterprise.

Anyway you cant just blandly say Finances and believe you have covered a KPI. You can do anything with "Finance". I will reserve judgement on "Finance" until I can do some analysis of the clubs Balance Sheet, forget P|L, that is an accounting concept used to lull laymen into a false sense of security/insecurity.

Membership

Huge KPI, and a huge issue over the next three plus years

Stability

Dont understand this? A seemless transition to a new President. Current CEO leaving after a protracted encumbancy and giving a three to four month notice/lead time, an organisational review that has endorsed the head of Football and the coach.

The only instability has been a co-ordinated effort by someone to cause MAXIMUM damage during the trading period, which has turned out to be completely false, based on lies and vast exaggerations.

Their campaign to distabilise the club has come to nought.

We have four players wanting to come to the club, we have 3 picks inside 20, and we have managers of players more than willing to deal with the club.

Seems like the KPI's need improving, especially on membership and finances, but ladder position (which will come) and stability (which is already there) are really insignificant and irrelevant as we stand today.

[Life Long Saint]

Given that all AFL teams must pay a minimum of 95% of the salary cap any team that doesn't have a number of high profile, high earning players are going to have to over pay players that aren't worthy of the money.
The Bulldogs were in the same boat last season...Why else did a number of players nominate them as their preferred team?
The AFLPA needs to get rid of the salary cap floor and let the market decide on what players are worth.

[fingers]

The answer to 9 out of 10 questions in life is money.

What's the answer to the other question?

Chicken.

[Con Gorozidis]

Opportunity to play senior level on a regular basis.

+ space in our salary cap.

I'm pretty sure we have offered all these guys more cash and more opportunity.

[plugger66]

We have more money in the SC than any club I would think so its likely we are paying these guys more than any other club would and we are a bottom side so there is a chance they will all get more game time than they have at their previous club. When we get a star from another club we will know we again flavour of the month. That is at least 2 seasons away.

[dragit]

I'm pretty certain that they are all coming for the coffee shops and Seaford culture.

[Dr Spaceman]

I'm pretty certain that they are all coming for the coffee shops and Seaford culture.

Well aren't they all gonna be p1ssed when we move back to Moorabbin?

[BigMart]

You should go into politics Joffa...... A positive spin in the face of reality

Yes, there are some positives.... One can always find them, every club could (even Brisbane) but need to look at position relative to th wider competition and check our performance vs competitors....

If Ladder position is not an indicator of strength in a sporting organisation.... Not sure what is??
Man U, LA Lakers, Barcelona, Real..... Great clubs are successful clubs... It's the true indicator

Yes ladder position for next year is not important at StK.... But that's internal measure... Same to a lesser extent at GWS, Melbourne, WB..... But that's a measure of where the club is at....

But in the overall system ...... If a club is to be judged.... Ladder position, financial and board stability, and performance.... All linked together.... Would indicate viability....
These very measures are the responsibility of the management of the club
Melbourne found themselves in serious trouble last year.... If that were us, WB, North.... Big trouble



And
Too hard for me to understand.... Just stated the obvious....

[ctqs]

The answer to 9 out of 10 questions in life is money.

What's the answer to the other question?

42

[plugger66]

You should go into politics Joffa...... A positive spin in the face of reality

Yes, there are some positives.... One can always find them, every club could (even Brisbane) but need to look at position relative to th wider competition and check our performance vs competitors....

If Ladder position is not an indicator of strength in a sporting organisation.... Not sure what is??
Man U, LA Lakers, Barcelona, Real..... Great clubs are successful clubs... It's the true indicator

Yes ladder position for next year is not important at StK.... But that's internal measure... Same to a lesser extent at GWS, Melbourne, WB..... But that's a measure of where the club is at....

But in the overall system ...... If a club is to be judged.... Ladder position, financial and board stability, and performance.... All linked together.... Would indicate viability....
These very measures are the responsibility of the management of the club
Melbourne found themselves in serious trouble last year.... If that were us, WB, North.... Big trouble



And
Too hard for me to understand.... Just stated the obvious....

All i know is you said successful sides have a good culture. Now you are saying Brisbane are worse than us. i suppose they only won 3 flags in a row just 10 years ago so I get your point. You also said successful sides dont fall down the ladder as quickly as we did but im sure the pies did about 2 years after playing in a GF but they probably arent a successful side.

[felix]

Be a part of History, join the saints in their quest for a second flag, you will become immortal if you win it. Be a part of the biggest party ever once its done . Good enough reason to join.

[gringo]

Chris Pelchen has created the Port Adelaide and Hawks premiership lists- Hawks twice by some accounts. He can come to you and say I see you as an integral part of my plan to be playing in a GF in 4 years look at my record at getting a list together.

It's about selling a vision and he can obviously do that.

[BigMart]

I'd give Choco and Clarkson some credit.....

He has certainly sold well to some?

What he did do was change tact from when he started...... He was initially filling a hole in an age demographic that we had a hole..... High picks downtraded to secure Milera, Saad, Lee, Hickey.... Took Roberton... Rookied 3 matures

Now he's stripping it back to the bone and deleting mid aged GOPs and trying to secure top picks....

Fair enough....

But he's already made some mistakes which need to be acknowledged ..... And it's silly to put absolute faith in anyone....

If he climbs us back up by 2016.... It will be a good effort

[plugger66]

I'd give Choco and Clarkson some credit.....

He has certainly sold well to some?

What he did do was change tact from when he started...... He was initially filling a hole in an age demographic that we had a hole..... High picks downtraded to secure Milera, Saad, Lee, Hickey.... Took Roberton... Rookied 3 matures

Now he's stripping it back to the bone and deleting mid aged GOPs and trying to secure top picks....

Fair enough....

But he's already made some mistakes which need to be acknowledged ..... And it's silly to put absolute faith in anyone....

If he climbs us back up by 2016.... It will be a good effort

I have no idea what climbs us back means in your eyes but i dont any club still going down will be close to the 8 by 2016 whoever is in charge of the list. Give the guy a chance. he has made mistakes. Wow. who would guess. Footy is such an exact science no one should makes mistakes if they are good at their job.

[gringo]

I'd give Choco and Clarkson some credit.....

He has certainly sold well to some?

What he did do was change tact from when he started...... He was initially filling a hole in an age demographic that we had a hole..... High picks downtraded to secure Milera, Saad, Lee, Hickey.... Took Roberton... Rookied 3 matures

Now he's stripping it back to the bone and deleting mid aged GOPs and trying to secure top picks....

Fair enough....

But he's already made some mistakes which need to be acknowledged ..... And it's silly to put absolute faith in anyone....

If he climbs us back up by 2016.... It will be a good effort

Milera and Saad so far are mistakes as Milera hasn't come on yet and Saad might never play again but he was very good in his first year. Roberton is a steal and will play for years to come, Lee looks likely, Hickey looks promising. Who is he deleting from the middle age group?

He has traded out Big Mac because he saw a unique opportunity to up grade into some very good picks. Dal santo is on his football twilight years. He has and will make mistakes but he has to be acknowledged as a very proactive operator in the draft and trade periods. We can't afford 5 years in the wilderness so getting those mid agers in is important.

Maister was a fall back KPB that didn't work as he seems to be more of a forward and other than that he seems to have only got in Shenton who was looking pretty good by the end of the year.

[BigMart]

I reckon Hickey was a mistake.... No idea why he recruited him??

Don't think Saad Milera Ross for Pick 20 was a mistake... I fact that trade was genius IMO

They are only individuals errors... They happen

His real mistake was misreading the list which he analysed in 2011 and went the wrong direction.... He had to formulate another plan mid stream....

It's been a set back... A costly one. Ask SW who won't have a 2015 job possibly as a result?

If I had to guess.... This error of judgement by both have caused the internal friction which has occurred.

[dragit]

Don't think Saad Milera Ross for Pick 20 was a mistake... I fact that trade was genius IMO

You called that a s*** trade only a couple of months ago…

[SainterK]

I reckon Hickey was a mistake.... No idea why he recruited him??

Don't think Saad Milera Ross for Pick 20 was a mistake... I fact that trade was genius IMO

They are only individuals errors... They happen

His real mistake was misreading the list which he analysed in 2011 and went the wrong direction.... He had to formulate another plan mid stream....

It's been a set back... A costly one. Ask SW who won't have a 2015 job possibly as a result?

If I had to guess.... This error of judgement by both have caused the internal friction which has occurred.

Hickey not a mistake now...

[BigMart]

Quote?

In hindsight, it hasen't panned out as well as it looked.... But even then you'd do it again....

Saad and Milera have tricks, but are raw..... Seb is a blue chip... He would measure up to pick 20 IMO

Is Hickey going to be a number one Ruckman... Or Longer?

[SainterK]

Not sure...either are you though

[nickblake]

Yeah , im not sure it is only the money . Perhaps they haven't been reading the newspapers or listening to the main stream media. Or perhaps it is because the saints have been a successful footy team for the past 10 years. Who knows?

[gringo]

I reckon Hickey was a mistake.... No idea why he recruited him??

Don't think Saad Milera Ross for Pick 20 was a mistake... I fact that trade was genius IMO

They are only individuals errors... They happen

His real mistake was misreading the list which he analysed in 2011 and went the wrong direction.... He had to formulate another plan mid stream....

It's been a set back... A costly one. Ask SW who won't have a 2015 job possibly as a result?

If I had to guess.... This error of judgement by both have caused the internal friction which has occurred.

I just can't see where this directional change happened. He has said since day one we have a lopsided list with very old players and young kids but not enough in the 22 to 26 range where the bulk of a good list should sit.

i think he had been balanced bringing in kids and some older guys that will still need game time to develop but should take less time than brand new kids.

He got rid of Raph, Polo, Peake etc but they were never getting any better.

what did he do to misread the list?