Billy Longer

[saintsRrising]

You should never measure trading by the success or failure of one pick. But rather on what is achieved as a whole.

We are still several years away from knowing whether Pelchen's collective trades and pics were a success or failure, or somewhere in between.

But at least at present there does seem to be some excellent strategies at work to:
* magnify the number of good to reasonable picks/trades we gain
* pick some talented players


I just wish our Board and Admin were as systematic at present. Hopefully the new President can whip them all into shape and appoint a talented CEO as CEO rather a "job for the boys" which has been way to prevalent with bot Admin and Board appointments for way too long now.

[ljpoyz]

Not every player works out... There is no reason you cant trade out later if theyre both guns but dont fit.

Logically, when are we going to be up and about?

Answer: 4/5 seasons.

That is why the trading for Longer to partner Hickey is a great call.

Logically, Big Mac was no use to us.

Where do both play in 4 years time? At the moment neither have done anything as a forward. Look it sounds good and iisnt costing much but I fail to see how 2 ruckmen work in the same side.

[WinnersOnly]

Is LONGER still contracted to Brisbane ?

[plugger66]

Is LONGER still contracted to Brisbane ?

No.

[dragit]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

[Kate]

Concerned that the Lions will play hardball. Reports were that they were cool on Hawthorn's offer of pick 18 and wanted more.

Exited by the prospect of Longer, but I doubt we'll get him as cheaply as pick 25.

[Stephen Theodore]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

Definitely more athletic and quicker than Mac, possibly better tap ruck man already, not close to Mac around ground work, plugging holes, etc.

To my limited knowledge, hasn't found any trouble whilst up here.

Unlike some posters on here who are fond of quoting the obvious years later I'll predict Longer will be a success for us.

Better than Mac, yep (hope so anyway)

[Dis Believer]

Concerned that the Lions will play hardball. Reports were that they were cool on Hawthorn's offer of pick 18 and wanted more.

Exited by the prospect of Longer, but I doubt we'll get him as cheaply as pick 25.

Yes Kate, but under Pelchen's watch so far, the tables have turned. We now have players saying they want to be traded to St Kilda. That gives us the whip hand.

[Old Mate]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

Longer is the greater talent of the two. He's far more athletic and as a junior made a name for himself for being extremely agile and quick, effectively another midfielder when the ball hits the deck. Coming from a basketball background he's got a great leap and is already a very good tap ruckman and mark, even at the age of 20. As a marking target up forward he was dominant as a junior and Pelchen did say he expects Longer to transition into a good forward option at St Kilda. He's only played 9 games for the Lions so only a small sample to take anything from.

Also of note, he captained Vic Metro so even know we lose the leadership qualities of Ben we should gain from the inclusion of Billy. The knocks on his game, and as a junior was his tank and skills, but given his talent and leadership qualities I don't see it being a problem. All things considered he's a fairly big upgrade on McEvoy.

[saintsRrising]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

Signs are good...but even if he is the same there are some other pluses:

* We gain at least one more player in Savage (maybe even two once the dust has settled and the rumour on the extra pick is true -though might be a pick swap)

* That we have time-shifted so that our new ruck should be in his prime when we are having our next tilt at the top of the ladder.

[St Ick]

Well said Old Mate. I'd like to add that stories get confused relating to trades, the example would be Dal for pick 26 & Delaney, some would say that deal was on the table but others would say North never offered a trade. So take the Hawks offered pixk 18 & Savage news with a grain of salt! It could be what Lions wanted, it could be what a Lions big footy poster suggested.

I'd say pick 25 might do it especially if we help the Lions get a better pick for Polec in the process.

[Old Mate]

Well said Old Mate. I'd like to add that stories get confused relating to trades, the example would be Dal for pick 26 & Delaney, some would say that deal was on the table but others would say North never offered a trade. So take the Hawks offered pixk 18 & Savage news with a grain of salt! It could be what Lions wanted, it could be what a Lions big footy poster suggested.

I'd say pick 25 might do it especially if we help the Lions get a better pick for Polec in the process.

There's definitely an opportunity to make a worthwhile trade for all concerned if we enter into the Port & Brisbane negotiations.

[gringo]

I hope we have a ruck combination to match the best WCE combo in a few years time but people excited now better realise it may not look goof for a few years. Both will need plenty of match time and it could look ordinary for a while until they really learn the game.

I'm settled into rebuild mode so can handle this. I am genuinely excited by 2017 onwards, a few years of pain up ahead but I will find enjoyment in watching the group develop.

I hope everyone is like you but we know there are going to be threads and why did we trade for this player and that player. Why did we draft that hack. Why isnt Pelchan sacked. Most of the traded players are young and tall especially as it seems we are also getting Bruce and Delaney. Bruce and Longer may take a long time to come good. One or two probably wont but like you we all need to patient. Its going to be a long rebuild and what we have done in the trade period has pretty much assured a very ordinary year next year and probably the year after. What it should have done though with good drafting is eventually quicken up the rebuild.

That sounds very sage advice Plugger. You seem to have come around.

[plugger66]

I'm settled into rebuild mode so can handle this. I am genuinely excited by 2017 onwards, a few years of pain up ahead but I will find enjoyment in watching the group develop.

I hope everyone is like you but we know there are going to be threads and why did we trade for this player and that player. Why did we draft that hack. Why isnt Pelchan sacked. Most of the traded players are young and tall especially as it seems we are also getting Bruce and Delaney. Bruce and Longer may take a long time to come good. One or two probably wont but like you we all need to patient. Its going to be a long rebuild and what we have done in the trade period has pretty much assured a very ordinary year next year and probably the year after. What it should have done though with good drafting is eventually quicken up the rebuild.

That sounds very sage advice Plugger. You seem to have come around.

No nothing has changed on who we have traded for but I could whinge all night and still nothing will change. I just want all out players to be good but that isnt going to happen so being patient is the key.

[BigMart]

Why are we drafting him.....

Powers that be don't rate a Stanley/Hickey combo..... He's not drafted as back up?

[BackFromUSA]

Why are we drafting him.....

Powers that be don't rate a Stanley/Hickey combo..... He's not drafted as back up?

Simple answer ... he is a gun ... he is available ... best young (18-20) ruckman going around ... by far IMHO!

[satchmo]

Why are we drafting him.....

Powers that be don't rate a Stanley/Hickey combo..... He's not drafted as back up?

Simple answer ... he is a gun ... he is available ... best young (18-20) ruckman going around ... by far IMHO!

But is it done?
No matter how likely the deal is, it isn't done until it's done.

[duckduckduckgoose]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

Signs are good...but even if he is the same there are some other pluses:

* We gain at least one more player in Savage (maybe even two once the dust has settled and the rumour on the extra pick is true -though might be a pick swap)

* That we have time-shifted so that our new ruck should be in his prime when we are having our next tilt at the top of the ladder.

I'm happy with the mcevoy trade and the prospect of getting Longer, but I don't expect in 4 or so years a 100 game Longer will be a better player than a 200 game mcevoy.

Sure Longer may go past Ben eventually?
However this whole Longer in his prime at 24ish talk would go against the trend big time.
Nic nat, kruiser, mcevoy... all still have their best form and years ahead of them.

[FQF]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

Signs are good...but even if he is the same there are some other pluses:

* We gain at least one more player in Savage (maybe even two once the dust has settled and the rumour on the extra pick is true -though might be a pick swap)

* That we have time-shifted so that our new ruck should be in his prime when we are having our next tilt at the top of the ladder.

I'm happy with the mcevoy trade and the prospect of getting Longer, but I don't expect in 4 or so years a 100 game Longer will be a better player than a 200 game mcevoy.

Sure Longer may go past Ben eventually?
However this whole Longer in his prime at 24ish talk would go against the trend big time.
Nic nat, kruiser, mcevoy... all still have their best form and years ahead of them.

Fact of the matter is, that Longer is at a much more compatible age to be developing at the same rate as our general playing group, whilst McEvoy might peak a little too early and be past his peak at prime time.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Longer will be a gun if we get him!

[gringo]

What are people's thoughts on whether Longer will be better than Mac eventually?

Yep, he is a natural tap ruckman. I'm also really happy with Delaney after watching highlights. He has something about him. Mac was too slow and not nimble enough to be dangerous elsewhere. His best position was across the back 50 chopping out opposition forward entries. Bruce or Delaney can do that now. We need someone who can develop into a dominant big ruck like Longer, hickey and rhys can battle it out for the more mobile second ruck.

[sainterinsydney]

I think McEvoy is about as good as he will get.

[Leo.J]

Longer will be a gun if we get him!

And if we don't he's crap.

[Eastern]

Concerned that the Lions will play hardball. Reports were that they were cool on Hawthorn's offer of pick 18 and wanted more.

Exited by the prospect of Longer, but I doubt we'll get him as cheaply as pick 25.

I'd suggest that WE hold the whip hand here. Longer is out of contract which means they take what we give them or he walks. Having said that, I think Pelchen & Bains will do what is fair and reasonable so as to NOT burn our bridges for the future !!

[mad saint guy]

I'd suggest that WE hold the whip hand here. Longer is out of contract which means they take what we give them or he walks. Having said that, I think Pelchen & Bains will do what is fair and reasonable so as to NOT burn our bridges for the future !!

Longer's actual value is probably something like pick 10-14. Pick 25 would be a steal, but at the same time I don't want us using a top 20 pick on him because we simply need midfielders more than we need another young ruckman when we already have Hickey, Stanley, Pierce and Holmes. I'd be happy to give up pick 25, but this isn't a trade that we NEED to happen and we should only get a deal done if it favours us.