Watters' position is now untenable

[Austinnn]

Hahaha, I can read the desperation in all these posts, all trying to get Jaxons to spill, all trying different ways. He has been voted legitimate, and the gossip mongering at our club has been approved by us all.

I want to know the rest in truth. But he's not going to reveal the rest, because he knows how damaging the truth may be. So it must be bad.

But I am trusting the review to have been done and for the reviewers to be at least as in the know as Jaxons!

Therefore, if they decide SW can continue, I have to trust that they know the worst and still think he is worth continuing with.

My opinion is that hiring a dwarf as a figure to mock SW is actually a bit strange. Some might say twisted.

The real issue is 'the half if it' that wasn't said, ie how rubbish/hated SW is. It's hard to gain the trust of a playing group when you lose most of your games. Players don't play to lose, even if they understand the theory of giving rookies experience. Once Scott's methods start gleaning success, I'm sure he'll get more love from his players.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

Sorry but this dwarf-Watters story doesn't stack up... As a "we hate the coach gag"

Montagna one of the supposed untouchables... CJ given a new contract as a 30 year old fringe mid.

At any rate, Watters might joke himself about bring short-statured, it is a footy club after all.

Scotty has the nickname Smurf over here in perth from a lot of his former teammates and players he coached at subi .... i dont think being short is a taboo issue for him

[lloyd21]

Give me break

Alistair Clarkson is known as the "Cockroach" has not hurt him

[SainterK]

Ross didn't like Michael, now Scott doesn't like Michael.

Is he not very likeable?

Is this just a smokescreen to hide the fact he is leaving, and won't be missed?

Hope he hasn't been making waves to make it "look" like the club will fall apart without him.

Assuming that Caro is correct and the Board tried to poach Nisbett then I think this might be a positive. Does it show that the Board has identified the need to get the very best there is to fill the CEO position?

Scott the least of our issues.

We need a new bus driver.

Desperately.

[loris]

What about how the Saints used to make the mickey out of Ross Lyon??

Dal even used to do the 'Lyon walk' on TV. And, I can't recall who it was, sure it was Joey, but I will stand corrected on the player. He on that Sunday morning footy show on telly, did a take off of 'Lyon speak' mimicking how Lyon addressed the players at team meetings.

Taking the mickey out of coaches, bosses etc is a normal Aussie thing to do.

[stinger]

Hahaha, I can read the desperation in all these posts, all trying to get Jaxons to spill, all trying different ways. He has been voted legitimate, and the gossip mongering at our club has been approved by us all.
.

approved by all ?????...don't think so...

[Dr Spaceman]

What about how the Saints used to make the mickey out of Ross Lyon??

Dal even used to do the 'Lyon walk' on TV. And, I can't recall who it was, sure it was Joey, but I will stand corrected on the player. He on that Sunday morning footy show on telly, did a take off of 'Lyon speak' mimicking how Lyon addressed the players at team meetings.

Taking the mickey out of coaches, bosses etc is a normal Aussie thing to do.

Exactly loris.

Unless one of the players has Randy Newman's Short People on his MP3 player I say let's move on

[Richter]

Yes it does dragit. It explains why a story came about regarding Montagna being traded elsewhere. Couple it with Pelchen and Watters not getting along and it's clear that Pelchen is desperately trying to keep the senior players onside.

Really?

Sounds like some may be believing the absolute lies being peddled as the truth.

Roo was NEVER going to be trade

Montagna was NEVER going to be traded.

Both Bains and Pelchan have publicily stated that numerous times.

A really really long bow to draw that because a dwarf was booked to provide entertainment, that Watter swould somehow try to trade him (considering the story about the trade was total hogwash).

I think the tin hats should be put away. I mean c'mon

How do you know it is absolute lies? Finey said as fact that there are issues with relationships at the club and stated that SW was at the heart of these. Today we have confirmation from the new President that Watters and Pelchen have a strained relationship (see quotes from him in the Herald Sun). We have strong circumstantial evidence that Watters does not get on well with a number of senior players. I don't necessarily agree with Finey that the best course of action is for SW to be sacked (that was his opinion part of it) but it seems pretty clear that he was on the money about the interpersonal relationship difficulties in the football department.

I agree with the Roo/Joey trades - NEVER going to eventuate.... though again, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest why these runours may have come about.

I agree that is a long bow to suggest that Watters might try to trade Montagna. What is less of a long bow is that Watters way of dealing with the Mad Monday incident/dealing with Armo and Chips wanting to go away with Martin and ongoing uncertainty about whether or not Dal may be leaving or not, may be unsettling the likes of Joey and Roo into considering their own options. Perhaps the rumours about Joey to elsewhere are his agent's way of testing the water?

Tin hats. I disagree. The stories in the Hun today and from Wilson are a level above what we have seen in the mainstream media before about disharmony in our footy department. There's an issue between Watters and the senior players and between Watters and Pelchen. Let's hope it's 'creative tension' that can be sorted out so that all can work together more harmoniously for the betterment of our club. History (particularly at our club) suggests that that won't happen.

[Richter]

I seems to recall you used the word CABBAGES yesterday. Nothing really changes on here..

Far be it from me to stick up for jb, but I thought his response to me in the above post was perfectly respectful. I hope my reply to his is seen as similarly so.

[Richter]

More and more supporters seem to be coming out in support of the tail NOT wagging the dog.

How do we transcend this seemingly overwhelming consensus by the supporters; maybe an open letter to the club from the supporters/members?

How do we let the Board, Pelchin and Watters know that we do not want anything but absolute stability and unity. Basically pull your heads in, get refocussed and defy our history by committing to working through the issues.

We accept that there will be challenges in 2014 as was broadcast in Pelchin's open letter however I am sure that "challenges" does not/should not include being in the media for all the wrong reasons.

Speak for yourself Cairnsman. Many are beginning to appreciate that Watters may not be what we had initially hoped he might be.

The issue is that how do we, as outsiders, know which is the tail and which is the dog?

Perhaps it is the senior playing group, supported by Chris Pelchen who is the dog and SW the tail. Perhaps it is SW who is the appendage that needs to be excised? Or not? We need to hear these points of view for ourselves and make our own decision.

I'd appreciate it if you don't presume to speak for other supporters and didn't bag jaxons personally when all he is doing is providing some insight into what he has heard. Don't like what he has to say? Put him on ignore or go elsewhere. This is a Saints forum and I for one am happy to welcome and read anyone who has potential revelations about the internal workings of the club.

I am speaking for myself, if others agree they might say so and by gauging by a lot of posts in this thread it would appear there is some agreement. I didn't bag Jaxons, I just questioned his credibility and agenda and some some fact regarding his claim to which I note he hasn't responded to adequately as yet. Just a question, why don't you probe him in a similar way as I have? I assume you are interested in dealing with credible facts?

No, you're attempting to speak for others not just yourself.

[Richter]

I am speaking for myself, if others agree they might say so and by gauging by a lot of posts in this thread it would appear there is some agreement. I didn't bag Jaxons, I just questioned his credibility and agenda and some some fact regarding his claim to which I note he hasn't responded to adequately as yet. Just a question, why don't you probe him in a similar way as I have? I assume you are interested in dealing with credible facts?

Questioning his credibility and agenda is bagging him.

On the internet it is virtually impossible to ascertain 'credible facts'. What's the point in badgering the bloke to reveal his source or back up his integrity. No-one can or should give up their source. What we have to go on is the poster's previous form in breaking scoops and whether or not there is other corroborating evidence from other sources.

When Finey first went off tap, I doubted what he was saying. Now we're hearing the same from a number of anonymous internet sources, including jaxons and some bf posters. These being long time posters or as in jaxons case a recent incident of being 'in the know'.

Today we read of direct quotes from our own president regarding relationships in the footy dept. Also Caroline Wilson reports almost identical concerns to those raised last week on the internet and by Fine.

By now, I think weight of evidence suggests that not all is hunky dory in the footy dept at the club.

What needs to be done about it is a matter of opinion. As others point out, many coaches in history have not necessarily been universally liked. I remain on the fence about what needs to be done. I don't see there as being a massive rush to get a new coach in, so I like the 'wait and see' approach that the board appear to be adopting.

[spert]

I think we should all remember SW emerged victorious from the most extensive interview process in AFL history.

I wonder how a lesser candidate would have handled all the issues thrown at him in the last 18 months.

Probably be in a padded cell somewhere by now I reckon.

How long an interview did Yabby Jeans do for his coaching job with us back in the '60s? You either have it or you dont as a coach, and if you need to interview someone for days on end only to presume they have "it", then maybe "it" is not necessarily there?

[joffaboy]

How do you know it is absolute lies?

Because Pelchan and Bains both said so, the club released at least two press releases, and I recieved emails all from the club.

I would prefer to think that Pelchan and Bains wouldn't jeopardise their jobs by blatantly lying to the supporter base, while the "stories" are from a so called reported that stated that missive was not a word.

Finey said as fact that there are issues with relationships at the club and stated that SW was at the heart of these.

So what? he also stated that Alan Richardson should be coach, that there was going to be huge news in 72 hours a week ago, and generally has completely trashed any credibility he ever had, because none of it happened.

Today we have confirmation from the new President that Watters and Pelchen have a strained relationship (see quotes from him in the Herald Sun).

So what? Many people have had strained relationships. Jagger and Richards have had a strained relationship for 40 years. Pelchan had a strained relationship with Clarkson. New president also stated that tension was good if not taken too far.

We have strong circumstantial evidence that Watters does not get on well with a number of senior players.

Can someone, ANYONE name these players? Roo and Montagna? Staying, Lenny? New contract. Any player asked to leave (even Dal still hasn't asked to leave yet). All scuttlebut and rumour until someone mans up and names players.

I don't necessarily agree with Finey that the best course of action is for SW to be sacked (that was his opinion part of it) but it seems pretty clear that he was on the money about the interpersonal relationship difficulties in the football department.

Was he? If the situation was so bad why did Watters and Pelchan keep their jobs?

I agree with the Roo/Joey trades - NEVER going to eventuate.... though again, there is circumstantial evidence to suggest why these runours may have come about.

lots and lots of circumstancal evidence. I have yet to hear one thing concrete.....EXCEPT that the club held a complete review of the football department and both Pelchan and Watters we given the all clear, met the President on Thursday and all seem to be on the same page, but hey, thats not very sexy.

Much more to state the club is a shambles, is in dissarray, the coach and Pelchan hate each others guts, there will be a mass exodus of dissaffected players etc etc....sell more papers apparently.

I agree that is a long bow to suggest that Watters might try to trade Montagna. What is less of a long bow is that Watters way of dealing with the Mad Monday incident/dealing with Armo and Chips wanting to go away with Martin and ongoing uncertainty about whether or not Dal may be leaving or not, may be unsettling the likes of Joey and Roo into considering their own options. Perhaps the rumours about Joey to elsewhere are his agent's way of testing the water?

And perhaps Roo is in America having a sex change. The bow is getting longer and longer. What part of "we have had no contact from any club regarding Leigh Montagna" is so difficult to understand.

Tin hats. I disagree. The stories in the Hun today and from Wilson are a level above what we have seen in the mainstream media before about disharmony in our footy department. There's an issue between Watters and the senior players and between Watters and Pelchen. Let's hope it's 'creative tension' that can be sorted out so that all can work together more harmoniously for the betterment of our club. History (particularly at our club) suggests that that won't happen.

Please -

1) Tell me the dissaffected players? Can anyone name the players?
2) Tell me why Watters is still at the club if he is so bad?
3) tell me why is Pelchan still at the club if he is so bad?
4) Tell me why Mark Fine and Caroline Wilson know more about the club than Andrew Thompson who conducted the review.

I dont doubt that Watters has had some issue at the club, that Pelchan and Watters dont see eye to eye that some players are disgruntled (as players at all clubs are - why is Delaney and Bruce wanting to come to the saints from their current clubs?) but this surmising and putting rumour and ponderings into negative theories about the club, is to me, tin hat stuff.

All the unsubstantiated rumour just serves as confirmation bias.

Why is jaxons uniformly believed by someone with just as good a pedigree in Tony74 is dismissed when he says the issues aren't nearly as bad as the Henny Penny's are making out?

Oh well, believe what you like. To me I couldn't care less if they sacked Watters tomorrow, if Montagnea walked of if Roo came back a woman. I support St.Kilda FC and not any individual.

if any need to go they need to go. However I only will deal in the facts when substantiated, and they only facts substantiated are in press releases for the club, Emails from the club and Pelchan to me, and public statements from both Pelchan and Bains.

Pity shock jocks and Fox "journo's" dont have to deal with the consequences of their unprofessionalism.

[HarryM]

Hahaha, I can read the desperation in all these posts, all trying to get Jaxons to spill, all trying different ways. He has been voted legitimate, and the gossip mongering at our club has been approved by us all.

I have a block of land for sale that you would love, water front views dotted with palm trees in the Northern Territory, going dirt cheap.

I will PM you with all the details so you can be first in

This offer is legitimate and approved by all

[joffaboy]

What needs to be done about it is a matter of opinion. As others point out, many coaches in history have not necessarily been universally liked. I remain on the fence about what needs to be done. I don't see there as being a massive rush to get a new coach in, so I like the 'wait and see' approach that the board appear to be adopting.

Totally on the same page regarding this.

[Con Gorozidis]

So far all we have is watters is no good because

a) he is short
b) he said we were in a rebuild and upset the egos of some sr players who wanted to be told they were awesome and had jobs for life because they were good in 09 .

Ffs

[Buckets]

If the players are running the club we might as well fold now....thought we got over this crap when Thommo came in. Seems I was mistaken and we are back to the Good Ol Days

Why? Cause some random identity on the internet said so?

Unreal.

Problem is Dragit I have heard the same from a few people the same thing which is disconcerting.

[tony74]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

Absolutely and totally disagree. Our little friends were also booked for 2 other Mad Monday events ( AFL) as well as other events at AFL level. To think Joey hired them and the players agreed because of the coaches size is wrong. Absolutely wrong. As for your credibility, it's probably the same as mine. We are all anonymous on this site. And as for Mc.Evoy quite a few knew he was up for trade a couple of weeks before the deal was done. You got the details correct however.

[Richter]

The real issue is 'the half if it' that wasn't said, ie how rubbish/hated SW is. It's hard to gain the trust of a playing group when you lose most of your games. Players don't play to lose, even if they understand the theory of giving rookies experience. Once Scott's methods start gleaning success, I'm sure he'll get more love from his players.

Very good point. And the difference between coaches who remain long term at their clubs and those who don't is more often governed by winning or losing than any other factor.

[Devilhead]

So has anyone been PM'ed by Jaxons??

Has he passed on any further details??

Or has he shut up shop after big noting himself??

The sticking point for me - if whatever SW has done is so truly horrific (see - Finey's reaction) then why has he not been given the boot??

Why after the comprehensive review has SW been allowed to keep his job??

[magnifisaint]

Untenable. What a crock

[Dr Spaceman]

Okay, I've had enough.

Sack Scott Watters!!!





Replace him with a guy who's 6' 5".

A guy who's 6' 5"and who is prepared to play all 38 players each week (even though that will lead to some huge fines and loss of points)

A guy who's 6' 5"and who is prepared to play all 38 players each week (even though that will lead to some huge fines and loss of points) but still go to all the Sandy games (even though we'll only have Rookies playing, and even they will be in the Sandy Development Squad) and talk to all the Sandy guys and shake their hands and give them all a gift basket with lots of chocolates and a nice bottle of wine.

We’ve all had enough. Just do it!

And end this negative onslaught from the media and supporters alike

[St Loxton]

Here Here Doc!!!

[stinger]

What needs to be done about it is a matter of opinion. As others point out, many coaches in history have not necessarily been universally liked. I remain on the fence about what needs to be done. I don't see there as being a massive rush to get a new coach in, so I like the 'wait and see' approach that the board appear to be adopting.

i have never been completely sold on the coach...jury still out afaic....wait and see approach suits me fine......

[Johnny Favier]

The moment the players organised dwarfs at Mad Monday Watters position was untenable.
For those smart enough to realize who the dwarfs were representative of shows how the coach is viewed by the playing group.
We need to bite the bullet now and change things before 2014 becomes a waste of time.

Given the accuracy of some of your previous posts you're obviously privy to internal dealings at the club, so these words concern me to say the least.

For the record, I think we should hang onto Scotty Watters for stability's sake alone, not to mention the fact that he also appears to be a rather good coach. (IMHO)

If the above is true, then some senior players need to pull their head in and start behaving like the professionals they're paid to be.

Either that, or Scotty is in on the joke too - which is what I'd prefer to believe given the choice.