What I reckon about 2014...

[whiskers3614]

Like most on here BM you sometimes come across like pompous know it all.
However after reading the Siposs stuff people bait you with, I couldn't fault anything you said.
Dead heat between the father and posters who bag you over the episode for Village idiot status!

[BigMart]

I can assure you, pompous I ain't ..... If you have ever been to Burnie Tasmania you'd know I am from workin class... Now not far from Frankston....

Local club cricketer and footballer.... Work in the state school system... Far from pompous I hope

Like to voice my opinion.... No doubt

[bergholt]

Local club cricketer and footballer.... Work in the state school system... Far from pompous I hope

I wouldn't have said pompous. I think you come across as a guy who needs to be known as a big swinging dick. That said, you're not on your Pat Malone there.

[whiskers3614]

Okay not pompous
GRANDILOQUENT then!

[BigMart]

Just outspoken.... Especially with footy......And a lot of people it seems who get bent out of shape by my comments... Fair enough, if they debate the comments?

I think people on here take me way too seriously, and it intrigues me.... Especially p66 .... He makes it his mission to scrutinise and reply to every comment I make, fascinating really... Why he bothers I will never know...
Not sure what victory he's after, or why I am so important to him...
I find him a person more interested in people and politics and not much to add footy wise.... His MO of bashing the credibility of anonymous posters to feel superior is something I once used to get sucked in by.... Now I find him predictable and

It would probably surprise people that, considering our woeful history.... 90% of the time I think the club gets it right.... It's just that I think people remember the 10% I question.... Hindsight or not....

In 2009 we almost got it completely right.... Two bad decisions and 1 bad selection.... And X.Clarkes knee...

[BackFromUSA]

Can we get back on topic?

[plugger66]

Just outspoken.... Especially with footy......And a lot of people it seems who get bent out of shape by my comments... Fair enough, if they debate the comments?

I think people on here take me way too seriously, and it intrigues me.... Especially p66 .... He makes it his mission to scrutinise and reply to every comment I make, fascinating really... Why he bothers I will never know...
Not sure what victory he's after, or why I am so important to him...
I find him a person more interested in people and politics and not much to add footy wise.... His MO of bashing the credibility of anonymous posters to feel superior is something I once used to get sucked in by.... Now I find him predictable and

It would probably surprise people that, considering our woeful history.... 90% of the time I think the club gets it right.... It's just that I think people remember the 10% I question.... Hindsight or not....

In 2009 we almost got it completely right.... Two bad decisions and 1 bad selection.... And X.Clarkes knee...

One whole paragraph on a person who you claim is on your foe list so you can ignore me. i wasnt even involved in the conversation but you bring me into it.Weird and a bit sick really. yes I commented again but would not have had you just ignored me, especially as I wasnt involved, like you claim you do. And whay do you post obviously stuff that you know many will reply and then claim to be the victim? Very strange.

Now back on topic. Even if we get most on the park next season which will be hard due to the age of most of our better players we can really improve by more than 2 or 3 wins. We must try and keep hayes as our mids need all the helop we can get. the club want him to play so as the cap will struggle to get to 95% maybe we pay a little over his real worth to help keep him one final year especially if we do lose Dal because the last thing we want is for Steven and Armo to be sat on all next year. That could mean so huge losses.

[maverick]

Just outspoken.... Especially with footy......And a lot of people it seems who get bent out of shape by my comments... Fair enough, if they debate the comments?

I think people on here take me way too seriously, and it intrigues me.... Especially p66 .... He makes it his mission to scrutinise and reply to every comment I make, fascinating really... Why he bothers I will never know...
Not sure what victory he's after, or why I am so important to him...
I find him a person more interested in people and politics and not much to add footy wise.... His MO of bashing the credibility of anonymous posters to feel superior is something I once used to get sucked in by.... Now I find him predictable and

It would probably surprise people that, considering our woeful history.... 90% of the time I think the club gets it right.... It's just that I think people remember the 10% I question.... Hindsight or not....

In 2009 we almost got it completely right.... Two bad decisions and 1 bad selection.... And X.Clarkes knee...

One whole paragraph on a person who you claim is on your foe list so you can ignore me. i wasnt even involved in the conversation but you bring me into it.Weird and a bit sick really. yes I commented again but would not have had you just ignored me, especially as I wasnt involved, like you claim you do. And whay do you post obviously stuff that you know many will reply and then claim to be the victim? Very strange.

Now back on topic. Even if we get most on the park next season which will be hard due to the age of most of our better players we can really improve by more than 2 or 3 wins. We must try and keep hayes as our mids need all the helop we can get. the club want him to play so as the cap will struggle to get to 95% maybe we pay a little over his real worth to help keep him one final year especially if we do lose Dal because the last thing we want is for Steven and Armo to be sat on all next year. That could mean so huge losses.

Good post, agree completely on the tagging of Steven and Armo, although Joey is still there.
Given our cap space next year, offering big money upfront to an uncontracted player such as Martin is not necessarily that dumb
Maybe not Martin, but a key defender.....

[BigMart]

I was using you, old fella as an example of point I was making... And most would agree, you would be the obvious choice to make that point, considering you stalk me and take me way too seriously... You're obsession is strange? IMO
....

[BackFromUSA]

My prediction re the list. I cannot believe that I actually did a spreadsheet to predict this. I am sure many will disagree. Just my opinion on what I would do IF I was asked.

Four Retirements:

Fisher, Milne, Blake, Kosi

Keep for experience:

Hayes, Montagna, Schneider, Jones, Ray (Midfield) Gilbert, Dempster (Backs) Maister, Riewoldt (Forwards) - all will be phased out 2014-6

Mid-Aged Players (reaching their peak in 2014-2020)

Steven, Armitage (Midfield) Geary, Roberton, Simpkin (Backs) Stanley, Hickey (Rucks) Lee (Forwards)

Young guns:

Newnes, Ross, Curren, Saunders, Murdoch, Shenton (Midfield) Lever, Webster, Wright (Backs) Siposs, Minchington, Markworth, White (Forwards) Pierce (Ruck)

Rookie Upgrades:

Shenton, Curren and Minchington

Rookies released and potentially reselected at a later stage:

Ferguson, Staley

Trades:

Dal Santo + 4th rounder (or Milera) for Reece Conca and Ben Griffith (Richmond) / or with Milera for the required 4th rounder (to Adelaide / Port Adelaide)

McEvoy + Gwilt for Jon Patton + 3rd round draft pick (GWS) - assumes that GWS get Boyd at #1 and / or Buddy and this gives them a ruck and a mature back

Delist if trading doesn't open up enough extra spots:

In order - Saad (assume banned), Ledger, Dennis-Lane, Dunnell (could also be thrown in as steak knives in trade deals)

Free Agency:

Experienced ruckman - Max Bailey (Hawthorn) assuming we trade McEvoy

Mature Midfielder - Colin Sylvia (Melbourne) assuming we trade Dal Santo

Trading using picks and/or players:

Mid Aged Gorilla Defender: Luke Delaney (North Melbourne) - for 3rd rounder (and maybe one of our to be delisted players as sweetener)

Draft:

Pick 3: Midfielder

Pick 19/20: Midfielder

Other selections will be best available.

SUMMARY:

Out: Kosi, Blake, Milne, Fisher (retired) Dal Santo; McEvoy; Gwilt; Milera (Trades) Saad (delist), Ledger, Dennis-Lane, Dunnell (12 spots)

In: Conca, Sylvia (Midfield) Griffiths, Delaney (Backs); Patton (Forward); Bailey (Ruck); Curren; Minchington; Shenton; Estimated Picks 3, 19, 37 (12 spots)

BEST TEAM WITHOUT INJURY:

Wright Griffiths Dempster
Roberton Simpkin Geary
Montagna Armitage Conca
Sylvia Riewoldt Schneider
Minchington Patton Maister

Hickey
Hayes
Steven

Gilbert, Newnes, Geary, Ray

SECONDS TEAM:

Webster Lever (pick 37)
Murdoch Delaney Shenton
Saunders Ross (pick 3)
Siposs Lee Markworth
Stanley White (pick 19)

Bailey
Jones
Curren

Pierce (rookie 1) (rookie 2) (rookie 3) (rookie 4) (rookie 5)

Note with an average injury list of 4 to 10 players per week there will be plenty of opportunities for our very young players to get senior games with priority given to players that will have to step in for Hayes, Riewoldt, Schneider, Dempster - who will need replacing within a year or two.

Looks like I was spot on with trade players - McEvoy and Dal.

Fisher is interesting - could be traded to GWS rather than be retired. Gwilt + Fisher = Bruce + a midfield kid?

North more into Dal than Richmond which surprises me. Given our love of draft picks I reckon we would take pick 11 from Richmond and send them Dal and pick 21 ... And we may pick up a late draft pick or a steak knife player in the deal. Or maybe Dal + our 3rd rounder = pick 11? Or Dal = pick 11 and we pay half Dals first year contract ...

With Bailey retiring we need to find another older big bodied ruck man - Jolly, Giles, West as pure back up. Jolly could be the answer as ruck coach as well like Hudson at Collingwood.

Yet to be seen if my player delistings come right as it will depend on traded in numbers and number of draft picks we have / need including our rookie upgrades.

Personally I would have kept Lever but maybe they will rookie him?

[groupie1]

I know you just trying to have a go Dragit.... You're not a fan

How many changes do you reckon we can make in one off season period.... To the senior team

As I have indicated, about 4 will do it... And about another 5-6 to the developing list... The transition needs to be over three years, with succession planning for Rooey and Fisher

We will be similar, but can be much better.... We have been competitive for periods in most games, and have done so without two key defensive posts... A fit Fisher and a FB will help there.... Also with 1/3 of the team with very little experience....

We are a better side than most of us think IMO

Continued development of all U22s will add more depth and some more fresh blood will add more talent.
Siposs, Stanley, Simpkin will be important as they have a lot of improvement in them....

We will continue to develop in 2014 and improve...... Dip again in the following years before a sharp increase after that

So for 2014
I predict 6-8 wins and three future stars unveiled
Newnes, Wright, Aish

Steven to settle in at A Grade and Armo/Mac/Geary consolidate as B Graders

I agree we're better than most of us tend to think. Dempster is our best player, in my view, and had a s*** year, injuries etc. And we were without Fisher and Gilbert for much of it. Gwilt was poor. Clearly we need a FB. Savage and the youngsters that we hope come through will add depth. Siposs and Stanley were both disappointing. And then there's Markworth and Spencer White. Schneider fit, too, gives us some polish. Anything could happen in 2014.
Imagine if:
Dempster recaptures 2012 form
Roo and Hayes, Dal and Joey have solid years
Stanley, Hickey, Siposs seriously emerge
Savage adds running depth and foot polish
Markworth makes his mark
Curren, Wright, Saunders, Newnes, Ross, Webster bulk up and improve
White comes into the side
Steven and Armitage continue to contribute and get a bit better
Lee, as expected, will become a major player
We draft well
We get some height in defence
Luck with injuries

2013 I thought we usually looked good and composed when we had the ball, but woefully inept without it and faded badly most games due to the youth.

Lots of ifs, but I don't mind our chances in 2014 for some genuinely competitive footy against all sides bar the top 2-3.
Smokey for a top 8 finish in my view.

[Con Gorozidis]

Love your optimism groupie . I know you are just saying 'what if everything went right' - if absolutely everything went our way then yep of course we could make the 8. Ill put my opinions against your hypotheticals - below.

Imagine if:
Dempster recaptures 2012 form (0% chance)
Roo and Hayes, Dal and Joey have solid years (2/4 i reckon)
Stanley, Hickey, Siposs seriously emerge (1/3 likely. 2/3 possible - if 3/3 ill be seriously stoked and surprised pleasantly)
Savage adds running depth and foot polish (yep. could happen. hes the right age)
Markworth makes his mark (yep could happen)
Curren, Wright, Saunders, Newnes, Ross, Webster bulk up and improve (yep could happen)
White comes into the side (probably still 12 months off but might get a run or three)
Steven and Armitage continue to contribute and get a bit better (yep could happen)
Lee, as expected, will become a major player (yep could happen)
We draft well (yep i epect this to happen)
We get some height in defence (almost a certainty, hopefully the quality is ok too)
Luck with injuries (lottery as ever)

2013 I thought we usually looked good and composed when we had the ball, but woefully inept without it and faded badly most games due to the youth. (for sure - we were ok sometimes but shees when we didnt have it - which was often - we were often unable to stop any kind of run)

Lots of ifs, but I don't mind our chances in 2014 for some genuinely competitive footy against all sides bar the top 2-3.
Smokey for a top 8 finish in my view.

So good luck all! Well be a real smokey!

[groupie1]

Mate,

So you see most of the things possible that I see, and some as near certainties (adding tall backs, for example).

I'm interested in the reasons for your disagreements:
Dempster recaptures 2012 form (0% chance)
Curious about this. Club champ in 2012. Awful year last year. He's 27, I believe. Why are you so bearish on him? He's a beautifully skilled, balanced player.

Roo and Hayes, Dal and Joey have solid years (2/4 i reckon)
Which two? (assuming Dal stays)

Stanley, Hickey, Siposs seriously emerge (1/3 likely. 2/3 possible - if 3/3 ill be seriously stoked and surprised pleasantly)
Which one do you think most likely to break out? Who most likely not to?

I'm not being an argumentative twat, I'm really interested in your opinions, particularly regarding Dempster.

[Con Gorozidis]

just my opinions.
i wasnt having a go.
my crystal ball is as smoky as the next guys.
Seany D turns 30 this january.
just reckon hes lost a yard of pace. when he was an AA he was really good at shutting down small fwds and then zoning off to take his marks.
He was never good on the real talls.
So I reckon hes not quite the player he was.

Siposs Stanley and Hickey - well i feel confident at least one of these three will come out and blitz it next year . No idea which one though. But they are at the right age now.

[WellardSaint]

Siposs seems to have suffered after the "next BJ" article. IMHO.
Dropped off and needs some refocus. Don't see it happening.
Stanley shows a bit of frustration and I don't think he'll have a good year.
Out of sorts.

[Dis Believer]

The original post is a more measured post from BM, and demonstrates the higher quality of contribution he is capable of if he avoids the sackcloth and ashes approach.

Some interesting posts in this thread. I think our trading is reasonably well known at this stage so what does everyone think - in terms of drafting!

Given the first three picks are likely to be 3, 18 & 19, how about posters nominate who they think we SHOULD draft. Not who you think we will draft, who you think we should draft.......

[Devilhead]

Hickey was not worth what we paid.... Brodie Grundy is already better....

No one knew Grundy would last until pick 18 ....... unless you did of course?

Hickey has some major issues for a 200cm player.... He can't take a body grab.... He's light as a feather, can jump a bit at bounces but stoppage ball ups he is pushed aside,

He's 22 years old - good chance he will probably put on 10 kgs in the next two years ...... trhe kids body and strength are still developing

is slow

So are most ruckman including one Ben McEvoy

certainly can't kick... Is not a smart footballer.

His disposal efficiency this year was 72% - in 2012 it was 73% - not bad for an uncorordinated dumb footballer who by all accounts held his own against Mumford and Pyke

Given he first started playing Aussie rules at the age of 17 I have no doubt he will continue to improve all aspects of his game

Not sure how the hell he was considered a first rounder?!

The Saints will receive Hickey and picks No.26 and 47. The Suns will get pick No.13 as well as 37 and 57 ........ hey but I understand you have an agenda

Especially since we didn't need a #1 Ruckman?

Every chance that he will be better ruckman than McEvoy who was pick 9

We paid overs, by a fair bit. IMO

So you deduced that after watching a 22 year old still developing ruckman play one season of footy

Some food for thought

Following the 2010 season Hickey travelled to Canberra to showcase himself at the AFL Draft Combine. He was the best performed ruckman in the agility test and equal second best among ruckmen in the beep test as well as being ranked second overall in the 'clean hands' test.

Some more food for thought

Hickey averaged 1.6 contested marks a game in 2012 playing for GC. This year he averaged 1.0

McEvoy averaged 1.3 contested marks in 2012. This year he averaged 1.5

McEvoy is glorified for his contested marking ability but apparently Hickey can't take a contested mark

FYI Only 6 players in the league averaged more than 2 a game

It's obvious going by Hickey's 2012 contested mark stats that he can take ........ a contested mark!

The kid has potential - and the majority of young ruckman take time to develop

Quite amazing that you have written him off already given the improvement he showed towards the end of this season

[bergholt]

Following the 2010 season Hickey travelled to Canberra to showcase himself at the AFL Draft Combine. He was the best performed ruckman in the agility test and equal second best among ruckmen in the beep test as well as being ranked second overall in the 'clean hands' test.

Draft Camp results aren't often a good predictor of whether someone will be a reasonable player. Some of the guys who tested well at the 2010 combine:

Brad Harvey
Nathan Batley
Anton Hamp
Joel Wilkinson
Daniel Farmer
Ryan Brabazon
Hayden Hector
Gerald Ugle
Nick Murphy
Josh Farmer
Jai Sheehan

Just a couple of years later and none of them are on AFL lists.

I reckon Hickey still has every chance of being a good player, but I don't reckon it's useful to cite draft camp results to support your argument.

[saint-stu]

just my opinions.
Siposs Stanley and Hickey - well i feel confident at least one of these three will come out and blitz it next year . No idea which one though. But they are at the right age now.

Siposs will be 21
Rhys and Hickey will be 23

I reckon most players are at their peak between 23 and 28, but rucks often take a bit longer.

So I wouldn't be too upset if none of them have a breakout year.

[Devilhead]

Following the 2010 season Hickey travelled to Canberra to showcase himself at the AFL Draft Combine. He was the best performed ruckman in the agility test and equal second best among ruckmen in the beep test as well as being ranked second overall in the 'clean hands' test.

Draft Camp results aren't often a good predictor of whether someone will be a reasonable player.

I reckon Hickey still has every chance of being a good player, but I don't reckon it's useful to cite draft camp results to support your argument.

It was food for thought!!!!

Of course they are not a true indication as to whether you are going to get a great or average footballer - al least though the Draft Camp results give recruiters and idea of where a players strengths may lie ie: endurance, speed, agility,

As I said food for thought - he showed ability in some areas which would give a club something to work with

[Devilhead]

Some of the guys who tested well at the 2010 combine:

Brad Harvey
Nathan Batley
Anton Hamp
Joel Wilkinson
Daniel Farmer
Ryan Brabazon
Hayden Hector
Gerald Ugle
Nick Murphy
Josh Farmer
Jai Sheehan

Just a couple of years later and none of them are on AFL lists.

We could look at it the other way too

Some of the guys who tested well at the 2010 combine:

Dyson Heppell
Cameron Guthrie
Josh Caddy
Andrew Gaff
Rohan Bewick
Jed Lamb
Jack Newnes
Billy Smedts
Tom Liberatore
Ban Jacobs
Cameron O'Shea
Shaun Atley
Aaron Mullett
Dion Prestia
Mitch Wallis
Kieran Harper

Just a couple of years later and all of them are on AFL lists

[gringo]

I know you just trying to have a go Dragit.... You're not a fan

How many changes do you reckon we can make in one off season period.... To the senior team

As I have indicated, about 4 will do it... And about another 5-6 to the developing list... The transition needs to be over three years, with succession planning for Rooey and Fisher

We will be similar, but can be much better.... We have been competitive for periods in most games, and have done so without two key defensive posts... A fit Fisher and a FB will help there.... Also with 1/3 of the team with very little experience....

We are a better side than most of us think IMO

Continued development of all U22s will add more depth and some more fresh blood will add more talent.
Siposs, Stanley, Simpkin will be important as they have a lot of improvement in them....

We will continue to develop in 2014 and improve...... Dip again in the following years before a sharp increase after that

So for 2014
I predict 6-8 wins and three future stars unveiled
Newnes, Wright, Aish

Steven to settle in at A Grade and Armo/Mac/Geary consolidate as B Graders

I agree we're better than most of us tend to think. Dempster is our best player, in my view, and had a s*** year, injuries etc. And we were without Fisher and Gilbert for much of it. Gwilt was poor. Clearly we need a FB. Savage and the youngsters that we hope come through will add depth. Siposs and Stanley were both disappointing. And then there's Markworth and Spencer White. Schneider fit, too, gives us some polish. Anything could happen in 2014.
Imagine if:
Dempster recaptures 2012 form
Roo and Hayes, Dal and Joey have solid years
Stanley, Hickey, Siposs seriously emerge
Savage adds running depth and foot polish
Markworth makes his mark
Curren, Wright, Saunders, Newnes, Ross, Webster bulk up and improve
White comes into the side
Steven and Armitage continue to contribute and get a bit better
Lee, as expected, will become a major player
We draft well
We get some height in defence
Luck with injuries

2013 I thought we usually looked good and composed when we had the ball, but woefully inept without it and faded badly most games due to the youth.

Lots of ifs, but I don't mind our chances in 2014 for some genuinely competitive footy against all sides bar the top 2-3.
Smokey for a top 8 finish in my view.

I think we are on the road to the spoon. i would imagine they have Hugh goddard in their sights and we will play a kiddy team all year to try to "build a list for the future". I'm thinking many of the seniors are unhappy because they know that we are going to be playing football to fast track youth not put our best chance of winning on the park. 2015 we could be the surprise bolter but I'm not feeling like we are using 2014 as anything but development.

[plugger66]

I know you just trying to have a go Dragit.... You're not a fan

How many changes do you reckon we can make in one off season period.... To the senior team

As I have indicated, about 4 will do it... And about another 5-6 to the developing list... The transition needs to be over three years, with succession planning for Rooey and Fisher

We will be similar, but can be much better.... We have been competitive for periods in most games, and have done so without two key defensive posts... A fit Fisher and a FB will help there.... Also with 1/3 of the team with very little experience....

We are a better side than most of us think IMO

Continued development of all U22s will add more depth and some more fresh blood will add more talent.
Siposs, Stanley, Simpkin will be important as they have a lot of improvement in them....

We will continue to develop in 2014 and improve...... Dip again in the following years before a sharp increase after that

So for 2014
I predict 6-8 wins and three future stars unveiled
Newnes, Wright, Aish

Steven to settle in at A Grade and Armo/Mac/Geary consolidate as B Graders

I agree we're better than most of us tend to think. Dempster is our best player, in my view, and had a s*** year, injuries etc. And we were without Fisher and Gilbert for much of it. Gwilt was poor. Clearly we need a FB. Savage and the youngsters that we hope come through will add depth. Siposs and Stanley were both disappointing. And then there's Markworth and Spencer White. Schneider fit, too, gives us some polish. Anything could happen in 2014.
Imagine if:
Dempster recaptures 2012 form
Roo and Hayes, Dal and Joey have solid years
Stanley, Hickey, Siposs seriously emerge
Savage adds running depth and foot polish
Markworth makes his mark
Curren, Wright, Saunders, Newnes, Ross, Webster bulk up and improve
White comes into the side
Steven and Armitage continue to contribute and get a bit better
Lee, as expected, will become a major player
We draft well
We get some height in defence
Luck with injuries

2013 I thought we usually looked good and composed when we had the ball, but woefully inept without it and faded badly most games due to the youth.

Lots of ifs, but I don't mind our chances in 2014 for some genuinely competitive footy against all sides bar the top 2-3.
Smokey for a top 8 finish in my view.

I think we are on the road to the spoon. i would imagine they have Hugh goddard in their sights and we will play a kiddy team all year to try to "build a list for the future". I'm thinking many of the seniors are unhappy because they know that we are going to be playing football to fast track youth not put our best chance of winning on the park. 2015 we could be the surprise bolter but I'm not feeling like we are using 2014 as anything but development.

Its only a guess but im betting that most senior players will play 22 games baring injury. Apart from a CJ type who out of the seniors players is going to play reserves footy?

[Con Gorozidis]

Its only a guess but im betting that most senior players will play 22 games baring injury. Apart from a CJ type who out of the seniors players is going to play reserves footy?

Not trying to be argumentative but I cant really imagine a backline with

Gwilt Fisher Dempster Gilbert Geary + only 1 other

What is the point of that?

I think 2014 will be all about development. Playing that backline would be a step backwards.
It could only possibly happen if Gilbo goes to a wing, Geary goes to the midfield and/or Fisher goes to GWS.

[dragit]

Its only a guess but im betting that most senior players will play 22 games baring injury. Apart from a CJ type who out of the seniors players is going to play reserves footy?

Not trying to be argumentative but I cant really imagine a backline with

Gwilt Fisher Dempster Gilbert Geary + only 1 other

What is the point of that?

I think 2014 will be all about development. Playing that backline would be a step backwards.
It could only possibly happen if Gilbo goes to a wing, Geary goes to the midfield and/or Fisher goes to GWS.

And ray...

Geary Fisher Gwilt
Gilbert Dempster Simpkin
Montagna Hayes Ray
Schnieder Riewoldt Armitage
Pick 3 Maister Lee

Hickey Jones Steven

Roberton Savage Curren sub Milera


Not really my idea of fast tacking a rebuild, I guess that's why they are trying move a couple more 30 year olds on.