Agree or disagree on McEvoy trade

[bergholt]

Bains has already stated on 4 separate interviews McEvoy was never on the table.

Does a lie get more true if someone keeps repeating it?

[saintact7]

Disagree in strongest possible terms. I have no faith in our list management

Ben was a No. 9 draft
pick whon the club has put 6-7 years into and he repaid the club in
the past 3-4 years.  Not the star we all hoped he might be, but a
solid, reliable performer to the point I would think him the front
runner to replace Roo as captain when the time comes.  And ruckmen
don't grow on trees, our stocks are very thin without him. I'm sure
even Grant Thomas would in retrospect acknowledge the importance of a
quality ruckman.

That decision comes on top of a lot of other unpleasant media since
season's end, eg seeking a trade for Dal, mention of the same for Joey
and even Roo, talk of dissatisfaction with the coach and internal
friction between he and other staff, several of them having departed.
I know you can't believe everything in the papers but all up it's not
a pretty picture.

I am a longtime Saints member but i
now ask myself does this club deserve my continuing support.

As I live in Canberra (but still see the Saints 5-6 times a season) I
became a foundation member of GWS as they play 3-4 games a season here
which I think deserves my support.

To compare the professionalism of GWS, a 2 year old club, in
communicating with and supporting members with that of the Saints is
like chalk and cheese and very disappointing.

I have already renewed my GWS membership for 2014, as they sent the
request out in the last week of the season (with a chance to win the
players' jumpers from the final round), but I am yet to receive any
notice from the Saints.

I wonder why should I continue to support a club that
appears to be in disarray or at least making some dumb decisions.

[Greg T]

I rate the Big boy,
But he's copped a fAir pasting on here for being a dud.
Why would a premiership side want a dud ruck man from our club?
Heard we're looking at Jolly for 2 years.....f f s.....

[Gurgman]

I agree but sad to see the big fella go. It's a risk but you don't win priemiership without taking risks and making hard decisions.

Change is never easy but change is constant and inevidable. How we deal with the change is what defines us.

Feel the same.

Come on Doc , get off the fence

[Gurgman]

Agree

Looking forward to Hickey and Stanley jumping all over McEvoy when we play the Dawks.

When you look at it the Dawks have effectively replaced Buddy with McEvoy and lost Savage

Can't believe the masses actually rhink the Dawks won this trade outright

Reckon the Dawks will have a Premiership hangover and struggle to make the 4 next year ...... bookmark it!!

Well they got our best ruckman and gave us a player who played his last game for Box Hill and pick 17. At the moment and because I rate Ben they have a good deal. We will find out in 2 or 3 years if we have a good deal as well.

Hmmm i thougth a ruckman was supposed to get hit outs , not take cheap marks in the back line , big Tom will be a gun , Ben will always be average

[Con Gorozidis]

Saintact I sympathise with your dilemma.
You use well written sentences and consistent punctuation so I can only conclude you work in Departmentland in the one of our fine Commonwealth Agencies.

My only response is your lack of faith in the list management and concern is about 24 months too late - really 48 months too late.
The 'crisis' time happened at the end of 2011 when the Board realised our list management, recruitment and development for the previous years was Leagues worst practice. We trailed all clubs on all measures and indices for development and recruitment success. This shortfall in Mgt was masked by the fact we had an outstanding group of senior players and a good senior coach and the core older players were winning games often.

But the writing was on the wall - and everyone knew back then (including Ross Lyon) that were heading towards a cliff that we had created by our own omissions by taking our eye of the future. Perhaps we were so shocked at being contenders - in such an unsual position - we didnt have the experience and calmness of mind to remember to keep one eye on the present but also one eye on the future. Perhaps we just had no money. But it is well known that we had the worst resourced Recruitment staff in the Competition - and basically no List Manager. There was a 12 month period (maybe 2010?) when we had no Recruitment Mgr at all.

And because there is a lag from action to results on these things - we are now paying the piper - and that is why desperate measures are being taken.

But as measured as your email is and although I have some sympathy - I have very little sympathy for the fact you have now decided to have 'no faith in our list mgt'. The time for voicing that was 48 months ago - but we were all too carried away with winning to notice the foundations and stockpiles for winter were entirely bare. It was like living in the woods and having a big long party over summer and failing to worry about supplies and provisions for winter.

In short you should have mentioned this when we were gorging on wins.

The thing is this weakness was known 2 years ago by the Board and Ross Lyon.
The Board chose to do something about and hired Chris Pelchen, Tony Elshaugh and Ameet Bains.

To cut a long response short - I have have much more faith in our list management now than I did 3 years despite the fact we are 15 rungs lower on the ladder.

[Austinnn]

I have a lot more faith with our list manangement than I have over the global St Kilda organisation, but we seem to be getting slowly better in all departments. If we had a bit more money to invest in modern energetic personnel in the admin/marketing depts I'd be a lot happier and we'd see an upturn in memberships.

I still think we need more smarter people at the club, at all levels. Not just smooth talkers but lateral thinkers and strategic planners. Pelican fits that bill alright, and I'm happy for him to have the controls.

[SaintPav]

Disagree in strongest possible terms. I have no faith in our list management

Ben was a No. 9 draft
pick whon the club has put 6-7 years into and he repaid the club in
the past 3-4 years.  Not the star we all hoped he might be, but a
solid, reliable performer to the point I would think him the front
runner to replace Roo as captain when the time comes.  And ruckmen
don't grow on trees, our stocks are very thin without him. I'm sure
even Grant Thomas would in retrospect acknowledge the importance of a
quality ruckman.

That decision comes on top of a lot of other unpleasant media since
season's end, eg seeking a trade for Dal, mention of the same for Joey
and even Roo, talk of dissatisfaction with the coach and internal
friction between he and other staff, several of them having departed.
I know you can't believe everything in the papers but all up it's not
a pretty picture.

I am a longtime Saints member but i
now ask myself does this club deserve my continuing support.

As I live in Canberra (but still see the Saints 5-6 times a season) I
became a foundation member of GWS as they play 3-4 games a season here
which I think deserves my support.

To compare the professionalism of GWS, a 2 year old club, in
communicating with and supporting members with that of the Saints is
like chalk and cheese and very disappointing.

I have already renewed my GWS membership for 2014, as they sent the
request out in the last week of the season (with a chance to win the
players' jumpers from the final round), but I am yet to receive any
notice from the Saints.

I wonder why should I continue to support a club that
appears to be in disarray or at least making some dumb decisions.

GWS need you. Go GWS.

[BigMart]

No straight shooting here.... It's a love in....

A Pelchin SW Baines orgy... (They are probably ok? Time will tell)

It's like the tragic romantic in love with the gambling addict but can't

[BigMart]

No straight shooting here.... It's a love in....

A Pelchin SW Baines orgy... (They are probably ok? Time will tell)

It's like the tragic romantic in love with the gambling addict but can't

[Dr Spaceman]

You're getting worse the longer the night goes on.

Are you Mark Fine?

[evo]

[evo]

Disagree in strongest possible terms. I have no faith in our list management

Ben was a No. 9 draft
pick whon the club has put 6-7 years into and he repaid the club in
the past 3-4 years.  Not the star we all hoped he might be, but a
solid, reliable performer to the point I would think him the front
runner to replace Roo as captain when the time comes.  And ruckmen
don't grow on trees, our stocks are very thin without him. I'm sure
even Grant Thomas would in retrospect acknowledge the importance of a
quality ruckman.

That decision comes on top of a lot of other unpleasant media since
season's end, eg seeking a trade for Dal, mention of the same for Joey
and even Roo, talk of dissatisfaction with the coach and internal
friction between he and other staff, several of them having departed.
I know you can't believe everything in the papers but all up it's not
a pretty picture.

I am a longtime Saints member but i
now ask myself does this club deserve my continuing support.

As I live in Canberra (but still see the Saints 5-6 times a season) I
became a foundation member of GWS as they play 3-4 games a season here
which I think deserves my support.

To compare the professionalism of GWS, a 2 year old club, in
communicating with and supporting members with that of the Saints is
like chalk and cheese and very disappointing.

I have already renewed my GWS membership for 2014, as they sent the
request out in the last week of the season (with a chance to win the
players' jumpers from the final round), but I am yet to receive any
notice from the Saints.

I wonder why should I continue to support a club that
appears to be in disarray or at least making some dumb decisions.

GWS need you. Go GWS.

Yeah with an attitude like that, Saints do not need you. P*ss off to GWS flog.

[BigMart]

Yes, I'm mark fine?

Just commenting on posts?

How much do you truly disagree with and how much does it annoy you because it seem anti-stk?

[jonesy]

Can we make a sticky negative thread for the end of the world is nigh folk on here(not talking about reasonable contructive criticism). So when we bounce back up the ladder like a rocket in a few years we can tell you all to f off

[Dr Spaceman]

Nevermind BM; today's email made a lot of Saints fans feel a bit better about the club they love.

It made me feel better about the club I love.

It obviously just made you more cynical and morose.

So be it.

I'm logging off to watch a bit of Karl Pilkington. He's a miserable coot also but at least he doesn't take himself seriously and he's bloody entertaining.

[BigMart]

Say it again,

It does get missed? Even though stated thrice??

I thought it was a good read also.... It made sense in most part...

But it doesn't make it all better, or solve any of the issues does it, tell me you can see beyond a publicity statement?

It did answer some questions... Ie Joey etc

[dragit]

Reading elsewhere he asked to be traded...

I doubt this would be true...

His manager said he was a little shocked at the thought if changing clubs... As he wanted to be a one club player.

Think both comments are correct.

The way I read it:

Ben did want to be a one club player.
However it seems the Saints mentioned Ben's name in regards to possible trading with GWS and this made him change his outlook a little.
Then the Hawks came courting the big guy.
Then he asked to be traded.

Doesn't sound like he asked to be traded at all.

"It was really hard, and I'm still terribly sad to be leaving," McEvoy said.

"I hadn't thought about it at all and hoped I'd be at the Saints for a while longer.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-15/m ... -awakening

[Grrrrr]

McEvoy on 3aw...

Spoke well, disappointed and surprised that he is no longer a Saint. He mentioned other Saints players feeling the same (did not name names).

Visited VFL Park (Hawks headquarters) for the first time yesterday.

[#gosaintas]

How was the coffee??? Apparently that is important.

[Little Dozer]

Disagree in strongest possible terms. I have no faith in our list management

Ben was a No. 9 draft
pick whon the club has put 6-7 years into and he repaid the club in
the past 3-4 years.  Not the star we all hoped he might be, but a
solid, reliable performer to the point I would think him the front
runner to replace Roo as captain when the time comes.  And ruckmen
don't grow on trees, our stocks are very thin without him. I'm sure
even Grant Thomas would in retrospect acknowledge the importance of a
quality ruckman.

That decision comes on top of a lot of other unpleasant media since
season's end, eg seeking a trade for Dal, mention of the same for Joey
and even Roo, talk of dissatisfaction with the coach and internal
friction between he and other staff, several of them having departed.
I know you can't believe everything in the papers but all up it's not
a pretty picture.

I am a longtime Saints member but i
now ask myself does this club deserve my continuing support.

As I live in Canberra (but still see the Saints 5-6 times a season) I
became a foundation member of GWS as they play 3-4 games a season here
which I think deserves my support.

To compare the professionalism of GWS, a 2 year old club, in
communicating with and supporting members with that of the Saints is
like chalk and cheese and very disappointing.

I have already renewed my GWS membership for 2014, as they sent the
request out in the last week of the season (with a chance to win the
players' jumpers from the final round), but I am yet to receive any
notice from the Saints.

I wonder why should I continue to support a club that
appears to be in disarray or at least making some dumb decisions.

A true St Kilda supporter wouldn't be purchasing a membership for a rival AFL club, regardless of the circumstances. Of course the St Kilda FC deserves your support, they have played in countless finals series and GF's in the last 20 years.

I'm not sure how you figure the Saints are in disarray? Some negative reporting from the bums at SEN and the usual suspects in the papers is hardly confirmation as such. The Pelican is pro-active in bettering our position in the draft and via trades.

Keep the faith I reckon but if not enjoy rooting for a souless franchise like GWS Giants are.

[older saint]

My initial reaction was WTF? and after a week of listening to both sides I still cannot work out the logic of it. IF mCevoy was 28 then could argue it was all about building a new team and he wont be there when the draft picks are good, but he is only 24 - we invested 6 years into him ( when no ruckmen provide a return) and then give him away when he is about to play his best footy for pick 17 and a mid/ forward who was on the fringe of a very good team.

Best case scenario - savage blooms ala Kennedy in to a midfield goal kicker , pick 17 is a gem of a find and Hickey becomes a dominant ruckman while Ben lopes around and gets slower with rule changes not helping him

Worst case scenario - Savage is the next Ben McGlynn, 17 is a Garlett who goes off the rails again and Hickey becomes Barry Brooks.

Likely scenario - Ben wins a premiership and becomes one of the better mobile bigs and contested marks in the league, Savage is a good average footballer, 17 plays around 90-100 games before being traded /delisted and Hickey is a Jeff White - athletic but cant hold marks

Just cant see what we have given up outweighing the potential upside, without even looking at the quality of the people involved - of which I know nothing about.

[saintbrat]

McEvoy on 3aw...

Spoke well, disappointed and surprised that he is no longer a Saint. He mentioned other Saints players feeling the same (did not name names).

Visited VFL Park (Hawks headquarters) for the first time yesterday.

http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/15 ... sToday.mp3

his mention of other players was in relation to him being traded.
despite caro digging for dissatisfaction with the ' process' he would not buy into it......

nothing but praise for both clubs..

about 1/3 of the way along...

begrudging respect from interviewer--- YOU had been told he was quality-- why didn't you beleive..
do they expect saints players to be ****t

[The Redeemer]

My initial reaction was WTF? and after a week of listening to both sides I still cannot work out the logic of it. IF mCevoy was 28 then could argue it was all about building a new team and he wont be there when the draft picks are good, but he is only 24 - we invested 6 years into him ( when no ruckmen provide a return) and then give him away when he is about to play his best footy for pick 17 and a mid/ forward who was on the fringe of a very good team.

Best case scenario - savage blooms ala Kennedy in to a midfield goal kicker , pick 17 is a gem of a find and Hickey becomes a dominant ruckman while Ben lopes around and gets slower with rule changes not helping him

Worst case scenario - Savage is the next Ben McGlynn, 17 is a Garlett who goes off the rails again and Hickey becomes Barry Brooks.

Likely scenario - Ben wins a premiership and becomes one of the better mobile bigs and contested marks in the league, Savage is a good average footballer, 17 plays around 90-100 games before being traded /delisted and Hickey is a Jeff White - athletic but cant hold marks

Just cant see what we have given up outweighing the potential upside, without even looking at the quality of the people involved - of which I know nothing about.

Your point is valid regarding Mac and his age.

On the flipside, he exhibited limited with regards to winning hit outs or making up for it via picking up huge possessions around the ground.

He did limited of either.

Whilst trading a 24 year old first ruck is not ideal, I do not believe Mac to be in the next strong team moving forward.

Good luck however I want us moving forward, not jogging on the spot

[linz]

McEvoy on 3aw...

Spoke well, disappointed and surprised that he is no longer a Saint. He mentioned other Saints players feeling the same (did not name names).

Visited VFL Park (Hawks headquarters) for the first time yesterday.

http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO/15 ... sToday.mp3

his mention of other players was in relation to him being traded.
despite caro digging for dissatisfaction with the ' process' he would not buy into it......

nothing but praise for both clubs..

about 1/3 of the way along...

begrudging respect from interviewer--- YOU had been told he was quality-- why didn't you beleive..
do they expect saints players to be ****t

No the interviewers were implying that we were getting rid of one of the few persons who may have improved our badly damaged culture. Heard that before??
Leaders aren't grown on trees. He was to be our salvation. Roo has been a great leader too for the last decade. From my point of view a good tap ruck man needs to be at least in the top 8.
A good list manager needs to make the tough calls and plan for the future. Gulp it down!!