Agree or disagree on McEvoy trade

[Scollop]

I disagree with nearly 100% of what plugger66 says

Thank goodness. It still gives me hope that i understand the game.

Ignorance is bliss

[Dr Spaceman]

Barry Brooks says hi!!

Why does he say hi?

Probably because he's one of those big, friendly, sociable fellas

[SainterK]

Not super damaging up forward, can take a defensive grab.

We had Ben covering for our defensive deficiencies much more than Hawthorn will. I imagine he'll kick a lot more goals as a Hawk than he did here.

I would say that he's also one of the better around the ground rucks in the game right now. Excellent kick for a big man; one of the best contested marks in footy.

I agree hawks a good fit for him.

True, but we had Ben covering his own deficiencies as well, it was won far too easily out of the middle by our opposition.

While not wholly responsible, I think he was a major factor.

[Griggsy]

Pretty good trade. Sad to see him go as he seemed like a good guy but the results on the ground wern't there. If he becomes a star then good for him and not going to be bitter at the club about it.

You can't tell how the future will decide the winner of this trade, the only gurantee is that this thread will be bumped by a captain hindsight.

[plugger66]

Not super damaging up forward, can take a defensive grab.

We had Ben covering for our defensive deficiencies much more than Hawthorn will. I imagine he'll kick a lot more goals as a Hawk than he did here.

I would say that he's also one of the better around the ground rucks in the game right now. Excellent kick for a big man; one of the best contested marks in footy.

I agree hawks a good fit for him.

True, but we had Ben covering his own deficiencies as well, it was won far too easily out of the middle by our opposition.

While not wholly responsible, I think he was a major factor.

Pretty sure stats dont show it was any better when other ruckmen were in the centre which suggests all our ruckmen are poor or more likely the midfield wasnt good enough this year.

[samoht]

I agree hawks a good fit for him.

True, but we had Ben covering his own deficiencies as well, it was won far too easily out of the middle by our opposition.

While not wholly responsible, I think he was a major factor.

He might not get anywhere near the same numbers of hitouts, but I wouldn't be surprised if McEvoy had more effective hitouts than Sandilands does on average per game.

[maverick]

Well they got our best ruckman and gave us a player who played his last game for Box Hill and pick 17.

They got an average ruckman by AFL standards and gave us a player who was on the fringe of breaking into Hawthorn's elite midfield brigade ....... and Pick 17

Well thats where we differ. I think they got a person who is great around the ground and we got a player who aveages 13 possessions and half a goal a game plus pick 17. McEvoy is a much better all round ruckman than Bailey could ever be. We could have a great deal in 2 or 3 years time. They have a great deal now if you rate Bens rucking. Obviously if you dont then they have an average deal at best.

Well you differ to the Saints coaching panel who didn't rate him top 10 B&F this year, despite his excellence around the ground.
I will bow to those who asked him to perform a job and didn't.
By the way Josh Kennedy averaged 18 possies a game before he went to the Swans and improved a fair bit....

[sunsaint]

strongly disagree
Im more upset with this move than I will be when NDS goes to the roos
a natural leader who has earnt his peers respect at an early age, quality bloke on top of that
Im not unhappy with savage as he is an upgrade on TDL but to date he has shown to be nothing more than a bit player

[plugger66]

They got an average ruckman by AFL standards and gave us a player who was on the fringe of breaking into Hawthorn's elite midfield brigade ....... and Pick 17

Well thats where we differ. I think they got a person who is great around the ground and we got a player who aveages 13 possessions and half a goal a game plus pick 17. McEvoy is a much better all round ruckman than Bailey could ever be. We could have a great deal in 2 or 3 years time. They have a great deal now if you rate Bens rucking. Obviously if you dont then they have an average deal at best.

Well you differ to the Saints coaching panel who didn't rate him top 10 B&F this year, despite his excellence around the ground.
I will bow to those who asked him to perform a job and didn't.
By the way Josh Kennedy averaged 18 possies a game before he went to the Swans and improved a fair bit....

Well if we base everything on the coaching panel then we need not discuss anything anymore. Of course they know more than me or anyone else here. i would also argue the Hawks record of getting players from other clubs lately suggests they know more than our coaching panel. But that would be a silly suggestion. By the way Steve johnson didnt get in the top 10 for Geelong in the B&F this season and im not sure Milney did in one of the years he was AA. Interesting that Kennedy averaged 50% more possessions per game than savage.

[Playon]

Agree

I still remember Ben's ruck work against Adelaide where he won an uncontested tap and tapped it straight down the throat of 3 Adelaide players with no Saints player to be seen, resulting in a goal. It wasn't an isolated case. I was wondering if he's colour blind.
However he did save us in defense on numerous occasions. If that was his upside I'd rather see us with a couple of quality backmen and someone who can win it for us in the centre.

I'm looking forward to seeing Hickey with his tap work and Stanley with his athleticism in the ruck as a duo.
Not to mention our new rookie Holmes

[maverick]

Well thats where we differ. I think they got a person who is great around the ground and we got a player who aveages 13 possessions and half a goal a game plus pick 17. McEvoy is a much better all round ruckman than Bailey could ever be. We could have a great deal in 2 or 3 years time. They have a great deal now if you rate Bens rucking. Obviously if you dont then they have an average deal at best.

Well you differ to the Saints coaching panel who didn't rate him top 10 B&F this year, despite his excellence around the ground.
I will bow to those who asked him to perform a job and didn't.
By the way Josh Kennedy averaged 18 possies a game before he went to the Swans and improved a fair bit....

Well if we base everything on the coaching panel then we need not discuss anything anymore. Of course they know more than me or anyone else here. i would also argue the Hawks record of getting players from other clubs lately suggests they know more than our coaching panel. But that would be a silly suggestion. By the way Steve johnson didnt get in the top 10 for Geelong in the B&F this season and im not sure Milney did in one of the years he was AA. Interesting that Kennedy averaged 50% more possessions per game than savage.

50% more...maths out a bit?
Steve Johnson missed 6 games and had a lot of competition, Ben played every game and had very little...
We can discuss whatever we like, didn't say you couldn't just arguing that the Saints didn't rate him in their top 10 for the year which tells me he didn't do what was asked...

[johng]

Agree. Big Mac nice guy but can't ruck for s...t hickey showed great potential towards end of year and now Stanley has to stand up

[FQF]

Apparently McEvoy got a big disenchanted after we signed a 203cm American.

[plugger66]

Well you differ to the Saints coaching panel who didn't rate him top 10 B&F this year, despite his excellence around the ground.
I will bow to those who asked him to perform a job and didn't.
By the way Josh Kennedy averaged 18 possies a game before he went to the Swans and improved a fair bit....

Well if we base everything on the coaching panel then we need not discuss anything anymore. Of course they know more than me or anyone else here. i would also argue the Hawks record of getting players from other clubs lately suggests they know more than our coaching panel. But that would be a silly suggestion. By the way Steve johnson didnt get in the top 10 for Geelong in the B&F this season and im not sure Milney did in one of the years he was AA. Interesting that Kennedy averaged 50% more possessions per game than savage.

50% more...maths out a bit?
Steve Johnson missed 6 games and had a lot of competition, Ben played every game and had very little...
We can discuss whatever we like, didn't say you couldn't just arguing that the Saints didn't rate him in their top 10 for the year which tells me he didn't do what was asked...

Yes sorry 45% more. How is the Hawks form recently in picking up players from other clubs? Surely you must rate their list management?

[Hallalj#3]

Surely we can at least all agree that the rucking element (i.e being the tall guy competing for throw ins and ball ups) to Mcevoy's game was average, at best.

Surely?

Certainly agree and I also reckon that could be the most overated thing in the game of Aussie rules.

Yeah i thought that too untill you watch the 05 prelim and see the dominance of Jolly and Ball in the Throw ins and Ball ups.

Its extremly important part the game. More then ever.

[SainterK]

Ben was expecting to finish higher in the BnF IMO, parents were sitting with other top 5 parents and he looked shattered

[cwrcyn]

I'll agree or disagree depending on how we utilise pick 17. If it can be used to secure a genuinely good midfielder via a further trade, then I'll call it a win. At the moment I think it stands as a neutral. Lots of dominoes to fall yet, and I'm guessing that our heads will be spinning by this time next week. Plenty of action to come.

Disappointed to lose a fine young man with a very mature head on his shoulders and with real leadership potential. I wish him well and hope he has a very fine career with the hawks. Football is a nasty business sometimes.

[maverick]

Well if we base everything on the coaching panel then we need not discuss anything anymore. Of course they know more than me or anyone else here. i would also argue the Hawks record of getting players from other clubs lately suggests they know more than our coaching panel. But that would be a silly suggestion. By the way Steve johnson didnt get in the top 10 for Geelong in the B&F this season and im not sure Milney did in one of the years he was AA. Interesting that Kennedy averaged 50% more possessions per game than savage.

50% more...maths out a bit?
Steve Johnson missed 6 games and had a lot of competition, Ben played every game and had very little...
We can discuss whatever we like, didn't say you couldn't just arguing that the Saints didn't rate him in their top 10 for the year which tells me he didn't do what was asked...

Yes sorry 45% more. How is the Hawks form recently in picking up players from other clubs? Surely you must rate their list management?

Less than 40% more, and there were no subs when Kennedy was playing at the Hawks which effects Savage's numbers.
I do rate the Hawks list management, but I also have seen a lot of McEvoy and a fair bit of Savage as I watch many Hawks games because of a mate. They said themselves they missed Mumford, and I think they made a rash decision with McEvoy. Still think he will be OK to good for them, but he isn't as good as we hoped he would be. Simpkin was lucky to be picked ahead of Savage, think the Hawks were spooked from Savage's lack of impact a year earlier... Savage is quick, outside and a very good long kick, exactly what we need....

For me, when we need Bento be good he won't be, as with everyone on here, its an opinion, but I actually think Hickey is a better ruck prospect and Ben is simply too slow to play forward/ruck.

As valuable as rucks are, they don't seem to attract good DP's for trade, remember we essentially got 17 & 28 for Ben.
You want more mids, that's what we will get.

[sunsaint]

Well you differ to the Saints coaching panel who didn't rate him top 10 B&F this year, despite his excellence around the ground.
....

? remind me again how many B&F's Goddard won at stkilda
im not sure thats a good indicator for getting rid of him

[vacuous space]

...it was won far too easily out of the middle by our opposition.

While not wholly responsible, I think he was a major factor.

We were even or better at the centre clearances in 11 of our games this year. I don't think ruckwork played a big factor in our year.

[Goddard Magic]

Devastated.

[SainterK]

...it was won far too easily out of the middle by our opposition.

While not wholly responsible, I think he was a major factor.

We were even or better at the centre clearances in 11 of our games this year. I don't think ruckwork played a big factor in our year.

I do...

[Moods]

Hawks form in picking up players has been great - that doesn't mean that this is a masterstroke though. I will put my hand up and state that I was losing patience with Ben by the end of this year. He is into his 7th year at the club, and hadn't made anywhere near the gains I'd hoped he would. Yes he has played some great games - but it can't be argued that other ruckmen were monstering him, and despite his alleged strength, he wasn't that great in throw ins either. He has brilliant hands (when confidence is up) but I fear that the game had gome past him before he even got going. I will be very interested to swee how he goes at the Hawks.

As for Savage - was speaking with a very astute hawk supporter today. Reckons he has been starved of opportunities at the hawks and likened him almost identically to Ben McGlynn. The reason for his low average stats is that he is played as the sub so often possibly? Apparently his offensive work is fantastic. Is definitely a goal kicker and is very strong. ie a great tackler. His deficiency is his defensive work. He's not superfast, but not treacle slow either. He kicked 5 goals in the VFL GF which is a reasonable standard of footy particularly at GF level.

I reckon overall a great pick up and with the additional 1st round pick a bold move by the club - one which I agree with. For us to be a contender again we have to take some calculated risks - this is one of them.

[lefty]

Depends if you rate "tap work" or "marking".

You knew if the ball got kicked to the back flank, McEvoy marked it basically all the time. Actually any time its in the air, he grabs it. But he doesn't win enough taps.

So now we've got to rely on Hickey, who wins the taps, but isn't a good over head mark at all and cannot play forward. Stanley has to lift, its a gamble.

I'm probably more disappointed, but I can see that if we get a "core" amount of young players, they will mature all at once together, and we should have a good side I hope. I don't know, I'm sort of happy and upset.

Loosing Dal will hurt way more. There's no reason why we should give Dal to North, especially for a player that can't get a game and IIRC out of contract. If we gave pick #15 for farking Lovett, and Collingwood get what, pick #11 for Daisy, Dal is definitely around that area, not pick #24 or whatever North are offering.

[sunsaint]

I'll agree or disagree depending on how we utilise pick 17. If it can be used to secure a genuinely good midfielder via a further trade, then I'll call it a win. At the moment I think it stands as a neutral. Lots of dominoes to fall yet, and I'm guessing that our heads will be spinning by this time next week. Plenty of action to come.

Disappointed to lose a fine young man with a very mature head on his shoulders and with real leadership potential. I wish him well and hope he has a very fine career with the hawks. Football is a nasty business sometimes.

You are right it all depends on pick 17 AND 3-10 years down the track - it could work out to be a positive
the flip side is we dont have a ruckman, we have invested 5 years and we seem to be pinning our hopes on a guy that has never played the game and a GWS discard (yeah I know bit harsh on hickey but he has a long way to go with a fragile body)