Markworth? Is he any good?

[groupie1]

Markworth? Is he any good?

If he is, the side gets that little bit stronger... edging toward the end of the bottoming out and looming as a dark horse for the 8, provided we get the defenders we need, I reckon. Siposs, Stanley had disappointing years, and we never know what Spencer White might become. Lee will improve massively and Hickey, too.

[bergholt]

Markworth? Is he any good?

If he is, the side gets that little bit stronger... edging toward the end of the bottoming out and looming as a dark horse for the 8, provided we get the defenders we need, I reckon. Siposs, Stanley had disappointing years, and we never know what Spencer White might become. Lee will improve massively and Hickey, too.

Short answer is no one knows at this point, right?

We've "bottomed out" for exactly one year so far. There's plenty more of that to come - I reckon two more full years of being non-competitive.

[SainterK]

Yep...

[Bernard Shakey]

Markworth? Is he any good?

Very good!

[ace]

Markworth? Is he any good?

If he is, the side gets that little bit stronger... edging toward the end of the bottoming out and looming as a dark horse for the 8, provided we get the defenders we need, I reckon. Siposs, Stanley had disappointing years, and we never know what Spencer White might become. Lee will improve massively and Hickey, too.

Short answer is no one knows at this point, right?

We've "bottomed out" for exactly one year so far. There's plenty more of that to come - I reckon two more full years of being non-competitive.

Years is a bit optimist, decades is more realistic.
But it all depends on recruiting and being able to contain wages.

Hawthorn was able to bring in a number of quality players seeking premiership glory from other clubs.
They were able to do this because they did not pay their star players their full market value.
They paid them less so they could enjoy club success.

St Kilda's recruiting was pathetic in the early naughties.
A blind mans dog could have picked Nick Riewoldt and copied Carlton's recruitment research to go for Goddard.
Others did better out of the 2001 super draft despite St Kilda having the best array of picks.
Later when the AFL made our draft picks near worthless, topping up to win a premiership almost worked but our top ups were not as good as the likes of Lake, Burgoyne, Gibson, Gunston.

Note the difference, Hawthorn has always used their picks wisely and then refused to even consider paying Franklin anything like 1 million, St Kilda was willing to pay anything to retain Nick Riewoldt and still is.

Bottoming out is pointless unless you recruit wisely and contain wages over a full decade.

[FQF]

If we bottom out for a decade, that will be the end of us.

[Kickit]

Decades?
Seriously what a douchbag. Basically you are saying it doesn't matter who we draft now, they'll be retired before the team comes good? ( I agree about the drafting in the last decade, but the people drafting now aren't the ones who did it ).
Hawthorn hawthorn ooooh I'm boning over hawthorn, they didn't overpay Buddy, (St Kilda - Goddard anyone ). They didn't waste a pick on anyone useless like Beau Dowler or Mitch Thorpe.

Anyway , here's an article about Markworth from before his draft.
Seems he may have slid to us, so I still hope he'll be a good pickup.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/ipad/dani ... 6175575353

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

Markworth has massive potential. Pity he didn't get the chance to play 7-10 senior games this year.

[FQF]

I hope his injuries haven't taken away from his speed.

[Con Gorozidis]

Unknown yet but many of us have high hopes.
Was picked ahead of both Jack Newnes and Jimmy Webster.
So working on the theory that Elshaugh knows hes doing (Fair assumption at this stage)- then theoretically hes a gun.
He did show good signs towards the end of 2012 and was an emergency quite a few times.
Obviously the injury is his biggest hurdle.

[villasaint]

From what I have seen of him in the vfl, he seems tro be one of those players who look like they have plenty of time when he has the ball. He uses it really well and is strong overhead. To early to call but he looks a player.

[dragit]

spud

[BigMart]

Wonder who selected Dowler and Thorpe?

On Markworth... Raw, but is a good mover...

[plugger66]

Wonder who selected Dowler and Thorpe?

On Markworth... Raw, but is a good mover...

Dont know but I think you suggested we look at Thorpe again. Why would you mention who selected those Hawks players apart from again having a go at the club. You are amazing if not very consistent. Agree on Markworth. Far to early to tell IMO but does move well.

[Kickit]

Wonder who selected Dowler and Thorpe?

On Markworth... Raw, but is a good mover...

Good point I don't think I want to go there.
Drafting is a certain amount of luck and they need to draft for it.
2003 would have been a good year to make big trades, in fact we got Gram and Guerra ( who unfortunately needed a further wake up call ).
2004 similar. The Hawks were lucky they got 3 good early picks in a draft that dried up by pick 10 or so.
2005 Another crap draft , the Hawks got Ellis,Bailey and Tuck. Saints got Gilbert, Rix and traded for Watts which was probably better than Darren Pfeiffer. ( at least it was over quickly ).
2006 Saints did as well as the Hawks, which is to say not very.
2007 Saints did better than Hawthorn.
2008 THIS IS THE ONE. Every other team ( except Richmond I think ) including Hawthorn loaded up on future players during this draft.
2009 Shallow draft wipout for the Saints. We traded for Lovett and Peake. Hawks got Burgoyne and Gibson. Doh! ( s*** Gibson would have been handy in 2010 ).
2010 Hawks had an earlier draft and got Smith and traded for Hale. Cripps fizzled for us and we got Polo.

And so on.
The Hawks seemed to be down at the right time for the Shallow drafts and traded good trades at the right time.
They certainly miss their fair share but its a gamble , and I think its fair to say they gambled better than StKilda. You gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em and all that Kenny Rodgers crap. ( and when you see Andrew Lovett just run away ).

The other lesson I see there is , when you think a draft is crap, by all means trade. But don't do half assed trades on former early picks who have fizzled. Pay big and get something decent.
And if you are paying big, check the character references, because in the end Brett Peake and Dean Polo were better than Andrew Lovett.

[Kickit]

Wonder who selected Dowler and Thorpe?

On Markworth... Raw, but is a good mover...

Dont know but I think you suggested we look at Thorpe again. Why would you mention who selected those Hawks players apart from again having a go at the club. You are amazing if not very consistent. Agree on Markworth. Far to early to tell IMO but does move well.

Without checking I think you'll find it was Mr Pelchen.

[plugger66]

Wonder who selected Dowler and Thorpe?

On Markworth... Raw, but is a good mover...

Dont know but I think you suggested we look at Thorpe again. Why would you mention who selected those Hawks players apart from again having a go at the club. You are amazing if not very consistent. Agree on Markworth. Far to early to tell IMO but does move well.

Without checking I think you'll find it was Mr Pelchen.

I know that and that was the point of what i said.

[groupie1]

Are we bottoming out? We re-signed Farren Ray, Clint Jones & co. Wouldn't bottoming out mean delist all these list cloggers and get as many kids as possible; basically try and finish last? I'm not sure the club exactly knows where they're headed. I understand some players have no trade currency so you may as well keep them to help while the youth body up. But I'm not convinced keeping Jones' etc is consistent with a bottoming out policy.

[Con Gorozidis]

Are we bottoming out? We re-signed Farren Ray, Clint Jones & co. Wouldn't bottoming out mean delist all these list cloggers and get as many kids as possible; basically try and finish last? I'm not sure the club exactly knows where they're headed. I understand some players have no trade currency so you may as well keep them to help while the youth body up. But I'm not convinced keeping Jones' etc is consistent with a bottoming out policy.

You arent the only one confused!
The club seems to want to bottom out but still remain competitive enough not to get completely flogged during the 2-3 year transition.
It really is a tight rope... and sometimes you wonder...
The fans love all all the old blokes and dont want to let go and I guess we are trying to stagger them out the door in an orderly way.
Remember we did retire 3 blokes. But I cant help agreeing with you that we still have a fair bit of dead wood clogging our list.

I mean is CJ really that much superior to Ledger?

I also cant see how or why we would want to fit Fisher, Gwilt, Gilbo and Dempster in our backline unless we are going for the 'retro' look.

[groupie1]

Right. "The club seems to want to bottom out but still remain competitive enough not to get completely flogged during the 2-3 year transition."

I think you're right, but in that case we'd be working overtime to keep the likes of NDS and Fisher, not worry about the also-rans. I thought Watters had it right delisting Polo and Peake, rid the club of Gram, etc... lose the deadwood, game time into the kids. But some recent decisions appear to be belying that trend. (Although, I'd take the point that Jones and Ray may be very affordable hardened bodies, without trade currency - But in that case, why delist Polo and Peake?).

[savatage]

He's a gun.

Hopefully he hasn't lost his pace & has a good pre-season. Was ending the season very well last year - was on verge of senior selection 100%.

[groupie1]

OK. Well most of you seem bullish on Markworth, so that's like a new recruit with lots of promise, and youth... exactly what we need. Plus he's no doubt had a good year of rehab and growing bulk, not coming in 18 and green.

[joffaboy]

Are we bottoming out? We re-signed Farren Ray, Clint Jones & co. Wouldn't bottoming out mean delist all these list cloggers and get as many kids as possible; basically try and finish last? I'm not sure the club exactly knows where they're headed. I understand some players have no trade currency so you may as well keep them to help while the youth body up. But I'm not convinced keeping Jones' etc is consistent with a bottoming out policy.

You arent the only one confused!
The club seems to want to bottom out but still remain competitive enough not to get completely flogged during the 2-3 year transition.
It really is a tight rope... and sometimes you wonder...
The fans love all all the old blokes and dont want to let go and I guess we are trying to stagger them out the door in an orderly way.
Remember we did retire 3 blokes. But I cant help agreeing with you that we still have a fair bit of dead wood clogging our list.

I mean is CJ really that much superior to Ledger?

I also cant see how or why we would want to fit Fisher, Gwilt, Gilbo and Dempster in our backline unless we are going for the 'retro' look.

Oh for gods sake.

Ledger could NEVER do what cj does for a team. Can you imagine Ledger tagging Ablett and keeping them to 20 possessions, while at the same time helping our young mids.

[tony74]

Will be very very good. I expect to see a few Saint youngsters by the end of 2015 wearing no. 10 on their jumpers. Beautifully balanced and a quality person. Still as quick as lightning and has built up endurance thanks to a stint with Trevor Hendy. Don't fear Saintsationalists, we've got a good one here.

[Dr Spaceman]

Oh for gods sake.

Ledger could NEVER do what cj does for a team. Can you imagine Ledger tagging Ablett and keeping them to 20 possessions, while at the same time helping our young mids.

Yes Ledger would struggle with Ablett while CJ would be a perfect match up.

Although he's a bit lighter than the champ Clint may be able to use his pace to burn him off.

Of course this could all be a smokescreen as far as our list management goes and it's probably best we don't pour kero on the fire by speculating.