Saints in disarray

[ozrulestrace]

"An AFL club requires $50 million per year to run efficently, we're working with $33 to $34 million per year."

Those are not my words, they're Michael Nettlefold's just over a month ago.

Should the CEO take responsibility for a club running at 66% of the funds required and half the membership numbers needed?

We've just played in finals for a decade and 2 grand finals… Coming from the outside, it seems that we should be in a reasonably strong position right now.

Or maybe there are just too many clubs in Victoria to run 10 successfully at 50 million each?

And yet Brisbane Lions won 3 flags in a row and made a 2 million loss each year. So GFs don't always turn around the finances.

[dragit]

"An AFL club requires $50 million per year to run efficently, we're working with $33 to $34 million per year."

Those are not my words, they're Michael Nettlefold's just over a month ago.

Should the CEO take responsibility for a club running at 66% of the funds required and half the membership numbers needed?

We've just played in finals for a decade and 2 grand finals… Coming from the outside, it seems that we should be in a reasonably strong position right now.

Or maybe there are just too many clubs in Victoria to run 10 successfully at 50 million each?

And yet Brisbane Lions won 3 flags in a row and made a 2 million loss each year. So GFs don't always turn around the finances.

That's probably to be expected for a team abased in a city that doesn't follow the game.

The flags came on the back of another ridiculous salary cap situation.

[70s sainter]

I went to the agm after 2010 and everyone clapped the pres when he announced a 1 mill profit but I was sittin there thinking we have just played in two grand finals and prob received $800000 from the afl as prize money . That's a pretty average profit. Things were looking ominous back then

[8856brother]

The boys on the couch continue with this disarray theory, including saying the captain also may be considering his future. Collingwood interested.

It won't go away. Great timing leading into trade week. Hope it doesn't affect getting interested players into the club.

Time for the club to let it's members know what's going on. Sick of hearing it.

[joffaboy]

The boys on the couch continue with this disarray theory, including saying the captain also may be considering his future. Collingwood interested.

It won't go away. Great timing leading into trade week. Hope it doesn't affect getting interested players into the club.

Time for the club to let it's members know what's going on. Sick of hearing it.

well read the Saints site instead of grandstanding on here

[bergholt]

It's a hard job, but if the $750,000 is around the mark, then he should be slaying it or moving on.

That's my point - he is moving on, but doing the right thing and hanging around until we find a successor. What more can we ask? He's lost motivation so he comes clean with the Board and helps fix the situation.

[bergholt]

Reckon 10K members is 1 to 1.5 million revenue not 10 to 15 but it is still a hell of a lot to a club like ours.

Yep, very good point. Still a shitload of cash.

The bottom line is that we're a small club. We all want to believe that there's some motherlode of Saints supporters out there who are just waiting for an excuse to pour money into the club's coffers - the last ten years have proven that's simply not true. We don't have as many supporters as Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong, etc. We're comparable in size to Footscray, Melbourne and North and we always will be. Get used to it.

On the plus side, the AFL needs us to exist for the foreseeable future, so we'll always get cash from them. But make no mistake that AFL distributions are the only things keeping us running. So the CEO's main job is managing the AFL. From that point of view I reckon Nettlefold has done OK.

[8856brother]

The boys on the couch continue with this disarray theory, including saying the captain also may be considering his future. Collingwood interested.

It won't go away. Great timing leading into trade week. Hope it doesn't affect getting interested players into the club.

Time for the club to let it's members know what's going on. Sick of hearing it.

well read the Saints site instead of grandstanding on here

Who's grandstanding JB? Sharing what I watched on the tv. Followed your advice and went to the Saints site. Sorry everything must be rosy.

[BigMart]

Those who believe StK is not in disarray are in denial.... We are ATM as bad as 2000-2002 and getting to the 83-86 days IMO

Shambles on and off the field IMO

We have been a disaster waiting to happen due to absolute mismanagement from 2008. Some of the poorest decisions made which thwarted glory and returned to the doldrums....

Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood..... Why haven't they had to bottom out, or lose their quota of stars?

[Verdun66]

Those who believe StK is not in disarray are in denial.... We are ATM as bad as 2000-2002 and getting to the 83-86 days IMO

Shambles on and off the field IMO

We have been a disaster waiting to happen due to absolute mismanagement from 2008. Some of the poorest decisions made which thwarted glory and returned to the doldrums....

Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood..... Why haven't they had to bottom out, or lose their quota of stars?

Money. Our admin whilst very poor have had one-hand tied behind their back with the Stadium deal for starters. I am not in denial about anything, but you do have to look at these things with some balance and perspective. All the clubs you mention don't have a shocking stadium deal to contend with . That's your simple answer.

How we got that deal when we were broke at the time? Who to blame? We could be here for hours, and we have been very unfortunate with most of our admin since....well 140 years back probably.

[matrix]

good point

look no ones denying that we could be better off yadda yadda yadda
but it would be interesting to know what the stadium deal costs us, how it works etc etc

can anyone shed some light on this?
would be good to see what its cost us for this year alone?

[Beno88]

Those who believe StK is not in disarray are in denial.... We are ATM as bad as 2000-2002 and getting to the 83-86 days IMO

Shambles on and off the field IMO

We have been a disaster waiting to happen due to absolute mismanagement from 2008. Some of the poorest decisions made which thwarted glory and returned to the doldrums....

Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood..... Why haven't they had to bottom out, or lose their quota of stars?

Hawthorn - Spent 2004 to 2006 getting belted every week. Traded several stars (Thompson, Hay, Chick, Croad, etc..).

Collingwood - 2004 & 2005 in the bottom three.

Geelong - Developed through the same period we did (2001-2003)

And as for Sydney, they've bucked the trend and done it well, but no club with that sort of assistance should bottom out.

Every club has played in a prelim in the last 15 years, every club has been bottom six in the last 15 years. The 80's days are long gone. Everyone gets their turn these days. And if this is as bad as 2000-2002, I'm glad we only have to wait 2-4 years for another quality decade for this club.

[Cairnsman]

Those who believe StK is not in disarray are in denial.... We are ATM as bad as 2000-2002 and getting to the 83-86 days IMO

Shambles on and off the field IMO

We have been a disaster waiting to happen due to absolute mismanagement from 2008. Some of the poorest decisions made which thwarted glory and returned to the doldrums....

Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood..... Why haven't they had to bottom out, or lose their quota of stars?

Hawthorn - Spent 2004 to 2006 getting belted every week. Traded several stars (Thompson, Hay, Chick, Croad, etc..).

Collingwood - 2004 & 2005 in the bottom three.

Geelong - Developed through the same period we did (2001-2003)

And as for Sydney, they've bucked the trend and done it well, but no club with that sort of assistance should bottom out.

Every club has played in a prelim in the last 15 years, every club has been bottom six in the last 15 years. The 80's days are long gone. Everyone gets their turn these days. And if this is as bad as 2000-2002, I'm glad we only have to wait 2-4 years for another quality decade for this club.

Take a bow. Couldn't have said it better myself. For those that don't understand how the equalisation process works in the AFL are probably still cranky we are not the VFL anymore and still whinge about the national comp. It has very little to do with denial, more like patience and perseverance and being progressive in your approach to life and sport.

[Middo]

Those who believe StK is not in disarray are in denial.... We are ATM as bad as 2000-2002 and getting to the 83-86 days IMO

Shambles on and off the field IMO

We have been a disaster waiting to happen due to absolute mismanagement from 2008. Some of the poorest decisions made which thwarted glory and returned to the doldrums....

Hawthorn, Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood..... Why haven't they had to bottom out, or lose their quota of stars?

Hawthorn - Spent 2004 to 2006 getting belted every week. Traded several stars (Thompson, Hay, Chick, Croad, etc..).

Collingwood - 2004 & 2005 in the bottom three.

Geelong - Developed through the same period we did (2001-2003)

And as for Sydney, they've bucked the trend and done it well, but no club with that sort of assistance should bottom out.

Every club has played in a prelim in the last 15 years, every club has been bottom six in the last 15 years. The 80's days are long gone. Everyone gets their turn these days. And if this is as bad as 2000-2002, I'm glad we only have to wait 2-4 years for another quality decade for this club.

Well said , wish we could be as bad as 2000-2002 again and top up with young talent and challenge again.
looking forward to the next big push up the ladder driven by some top end draft picks and watch the other clubs on the way down ...
Funny how some people just want to lay blame some where and not be realists...

[Cairnsman]

Speaking of progressive, come on down Eastern. I don't know this bloke personally but what I can tell from his internet profile is that he gets it. The club needs more like him. Especially in the next few years. We need people to connect a few dots like, the spirit that surrounded the club and the short film competition it just entered, the spirit and soul that surrounded round 23. The spirit and soul that surrounded the march of loyalty that Eastern initiated. We need to make the club a happy and fun place first and foremost. Anyone including senior players that can't sign up to that should leave.

[chook23]

currently topic of this thread being discussed on SEN

[lloyd21]

Well said Beno88 that is the system

As for the negative on Seaford look around people .

Flightplan -Essendon Industrial wasteland /Airport wind out there unreal nothing around it

Lexus Centre /Gosch's paddock_collingwood that's what it is guys a paddock nothing but concrete around Lexus Centre

Waverley Park -Mirvacvil- Hawthorn surrounded by boxes of houses can't have closed training sessions there

Give me a break they are what they are training facilities not restaurants

How about some positive posts I think there will be a lot of smiles shortly in "Pelchen I trust"

[BringBackMadDog]

I think a lot of what has been bandied around in the media is a crock of crap, most players that have been talked about as wanting to leave are contracted and aren't going anywhere. But what I am disappointed in is the lack of response from our club leaders. If this was Collingwood, Eddie would be on every media outlet threatening to sue every man and his dog and declaring war on everyone. We, as usual keep our mouths shut and cop it in the shorts.
It's about time we stood up and said enough is enough

[Cairnsman]

I think a lot of what has been bandied around in the media is a crock of crap, most players that have been talked about as wanting to leave are contracted and aren't going anywhere. But what I am disappointed in is the lack of response from our club leaders. If this was Collingwood, Eddie would be on every media outlet threatening to sue every man and his dog and declaring war on everyone. We, as usual keep our mouths shut and cop it in the shorts.
It's about time we stood up and said enough is enough

Certainly think the club should engage the PR machine to get on the front foot and counter recent media events that suggest Armageddon is coming.

[samuraisaint]

[
And yet Brisbane Lions won 3 flags in a row and made a 2 million loss each year. So GFs don't always turn around the finances.[/quote]
That's probably to be expected for a team abased in a city that doesn't follow the game.

The flags came on the back of another ridiculous salary cap situation.[/quote]

and taking over another club and stealing their players, and extraordinary amounts of draft picks and concessions...

[samuraisaint]

Well said Beno88 that is the system

As for the negative on Seaford look around people .

Flightplan -Essendon Industrial wasteland /Airport wind out there unreal nothing around it

Lexus Centre /Gosch's paddock_collingwood that's what it is guys a paddock nothing but concrete around Lexus Centre

Waverley Park -Mirvacvil- Hawthorn surrounded by boxes of houses can't have closed training sessions there

Give me a break they are what they are training facilities not restaurants

How about some positive posts I think there will be a lot of smiles shortly in "Pelchen I trust"

and don't forget Richmond out at Craigieburn

[Richter]

Reckon 10K members is 1 to 1.5 million revenue not 10 to 15 but it is still a hell of a lot to a club like ours.

Yep, very good point. Still a shitload of cash.

The bottom line is that we're a small club. We all want to believe that there's some motherlode of Saints supporters out there who are just waiting for an excuse to pour money into the club's coffers - the last ten years have proven that's simply not true. We don't have as many supporters as Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Richmond, Geelong, etc. We're comparable in size to Footscray, Melbourne and North and we always will be. Get used to it.

On the plus side, the AFL needs us to exist for the foreseeable future, so we'll always get cash from them. But make no mistake that AFL distributions are the only things keeping us running. So the CEO's main job is managing the AFL. From that point of view I reckon Nettlefold has done OK.

Not sure that is the case... from http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2uoxg.html

With the AFL financial year not ending until October 31, the Saints believe there is a clause in a sponsorship deal that could yet reap a greater return, minimising any loss.

The Saints had an operating profit before depreciation and amortisation of $631,135 last season, a significant recovery considering they had suffered a $1.5 million loss in 2011.

''We have had a reduction in club revenue which can attributed in part to the on-field impact, winning three of the first 20 games, on membership and match-day revenue from crowds,'' a club spokesman said.

''There will be no additional funding from the AFL to the club this season.''We have increased our loan facility with the bank to manage our obligations. This has meant an increase in our overdraft limit … Our exact revenue for the year is unclear at this point as a sponsorship clause is yet to be completed.''

It does seem that whilst there is understandable concern that with a likely few years at the bottom of the ladder ahead of we may run in to financial difficulty, the s@#$ has not hit the fan yet. My guess is that with the resignation of the CEO and his likely replacement by someone earning significantly less, the non-replacement of Greg Hutchinson and the likely running at the bottom of the salary cap range (i.e. 95% with no use of veterans) that these measures could easily add $1m plus to our balance sheet. Not insignificant in the context of $1-2m operating profits/losses p.a.

[Richter]

From http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/t ... 2uoxg.html

''Trade week starts next week but I would imagine all sorts of requests … most clubs even the successful ones have spoken about being open to discussions.

''You stay open-minded on anything but how high a threshold that is, it remains to be seen. No clubs have raised him with us but one thing that should be made clear now that we have made those list changes of the weekend every primary list player is contracted.
''If anything is to happen with any player, be it player 40 on the list or player one on the list, it needs to be agreeable to the player and agreeable to the club. We certainly haven't shopped anyone around.''

Disarray? Really?

[BigMart]

No one answered the question....

Why haven't Geelong (GF 2007, 8, 9, 11), Sydney (GF 2005, 6, 12), Hawthorn (GF 2008, 2012, 2013), Collingwood (GF 2010, 11)

Why hasen't those clubs have to rebuild?! Didn't ask how they got there? Asked why they have NOT bottomed out within THREE years of making a GF

Equalisation... What a crock of .....

Explain equalisation to Richmond, Carlton, Essendon, Melbourne fans???

When has any of these teams made the top 4 in recent history????
Who are the best examples of bottoming out in recent history.... Melbourne has had a few goes....

Good management wins flags, drafts don't!!!

Hawthorn
Lake, Gunston, Guerra, Hale, Burgoyne, Gibson..... Trades
Smith, Simpkin.... VFL
Rest through drafting well and continually developing and regenerating every year and an evolving game plan....

Last time they were bottom 6 was when? 2005?? Sydney?? Collingwood???

We were the beneficiaries of the best drafts in history and still missed out... Just
But for some reason sustaining the club success further than annual teams was not able to be managed?! In fact some things were totally mismanaged


Coaching stategy and injury management.... Grant Thomas
Lack of resources to football

Player Development and selection ...... Ross Lyon

Drafting
2004-2010

Leaving Tassie to Hawthorn... (Who just showed off their second cup to Tas and have 20 000 kids under 9 supporting them)
Relocation..... Archie Fraser

Casey Alignment..... Grant Thomas
Sandringham Alignment ..... Ross Lyon

All I can say is

Thank god for Tim Watson..... Who gave us great players and 60 odd percent victories for about a decade.... Unlike the 60s though

No crowning glory, before a return to the bottom

[Cairnsman]

What is the one thing that Geelong, Hawthorn, Collingwood and Swans all have in common regarding their recent flags..?

Stability and consistency in their coaching departments.

The don't have a d1ckhead fringe that want to sack the coach every couple of years.

The model for coaching structures and succession plans implemented by said clubs is progressive and the new paradigm.

So yes, good management wins flags.

I know one poster who thinks the answer is to call our coach useless after every loss and trying to sound like he knows what he is talking about with 20:20 hindsight.