Ledger delisted

[PJ]

Yep good luck young man but it's time to move on. All players that have been kept are there because they offer something structurally - we need mids of a higher quality at the moment.

New/developing Ross, Newnes, Curren, Saunders, Wright (possibly)

Established: Steven, Armitage (may be gone), Monty, Dal (may be gone), CJ (tagger)

Vet: Lenny

It's easy to see why we need more in the established category as there are not many genuine ball users/distributors and right now Ledger won't offer much going forward in the new/developing either.

[karnaby]

Yep good luck young man but it's time to move on. All players that have been kept are there because they offer something structurally - we need mids of a higher quality at the moment.

New/developing Ross, Newnes, Curren, Saunders, Wright (possibly)

Established: Steven, Armitage (may be gone), Monty, Dal (may be gone), CJ (tagger)

Vet: Lenny

It's easy to see why we need more in the established category as there are not many genuine ball users/distributors and right now Ledger won't offer much going forward in the new/developing either.

There is not a lot of height or bulk in that list. That by itself might be one good reason to keep both Lenny & CJ for one more year while the others continue to develop. Whilst it might also be a reason for having to give up one extra smallish, developing mid.
Something had to give, good luck elsewhere Tom.

[saintbob]

I reckon this one will come back and bite us fair and squarely on the arse!!!
We've done all the development and another club will get the cream.

[plugger66]

I reckon this one will come back and bite us fair and squarely on the arse!!!
We've done all the development and another club will get the cream.

Probably Claremont.

[saintbob]

I reckon this one will come back and bite us fair and squarely on the arse!!!
We've done all the development and another club will get the cream.

Probably Claremont.

I wish you'd go to Claremont

[plugger66]

I reckon this one will come back and bite us fair and squarely on the arse!!!
We've done all the development and another club will get the cream.

Probably Claremont.

I wish you'd go to Claremont

Thanks. I am in Claremeont. I still post though. Bob what have i done to you to get that response? Im hurt.

[saintsRrising]

I think that some need to review how we played this year, and where we finished.

Quite simply we have a list bulging with players who are not good enough. Response from many is that we need to keep most of them!!!

I do not know if Pelchen and Co. are making the right calls, or not, on who goes and who stays. But I do know that we need to churn through players, and in the process improve our abilities and kicking skills in particular. So we need to make some hard calls. TDL may not be good enough (I do not think he is), but Ledger has not been excelling either.

I also know that you cannot "do a Melbourne" and remove all your senior players.

We have a number of players who look ok as mids, but a lot of "ok" mids will not make you an elite team. Right here and now our only mid who looks like he will be elite in the future is Jack.

Add to that, we need two genuine tall backs, and you have some major acquisitions that are required.

This is not going to happen if we keep everyone on the list who may blossom in several years. We already have too many of them in Newnes, Ross, Wright, Siposs etc etc.... So it is time to back the most likely and cut loose the rest.

[Zed]

There are lots of smart people on this forum with long memories so I expect there to be a barrage of responses ...

Can someone please list out the names of Saints players over the last 10 years who played less than 5 games in a season for the Saints that were then delisted (ie not traded) and then went on to cement a spot (ie play 15 or more games a season) in another AFL side...

When you finish the list .. add Ledger's name if you wish.

[Bernard Shakey]

Can't wait for this one!

[The Redeemer]

So Ledger can kick and CJ cannot kick so how does CJ get a contract?

[defacto]

So Ledger can kick and CJ cannot kick so how does CJ get a contract?

Because CJ can actually run, stay in the game longer than 8 minutes. Apply AFL quality defensive pressure and has more of an offensive game than ledger

Ledger would struggle to break into west perths senior team right now. Would probably get a game at Claremont

[westcoast]

So Ledger can kick and CJ cannot kick so how does CJ get a contract?

Because CJ can actually run, stay in the game longer than 8 minutes. Apply AFL quality defensive pressure and has more of an offensive game than ledger

Ledger would struggle to break into west perths senior team right now. Would probably get a game at Claremont

Gee you are a nasty piece of work

[elvis lives]

Disappointing for Ledger, however we need to churn through and get the best list. mistakes ( In hindsight) will be made, but decisions need to be made. I am sure the usual hindsight kings will tell us all about in a year or two.

I am still waiting for this years draft smokie whom the armchair critics can flay the club about. Interestingly enough although I have asked a number of times I have received no reply.

Who would have thought?

Plentry of people in this thread not happy with the decision, including me. Pretty sure its not hindsight if in a year or two they are proven right.

[dragit]

I am still waiting for this years draft smokie whom the armchair critics can flay the club about. Interestingly enough although I have asked a number of times I have received no reply.

The guy we should be taking with our second pick is actually the guy that Port take with their fourth pick.

Bookmark it.

[Zed]

There are lots of smart people on this forum with long memories so I expect there to be a barrage of responses ...

Can someone please list out the names of Saints players over the last 10 years who played less than 5 games in a season for the Saints that were then delisted (ie not traded) and then went on to cement a spot (ie play 15 or more games a season) in another AFL side...

When you finish the list .. add Ledger's name if you wish.

OK OK that was just too hard a task.

Let's start with a list of Saints players who played less than 5 games in a season that was delisted and went on to play 5 or more games a season at his next AFL club.

[dragit]

There are lots of smart people on this forum with long memories so I expect there to be a barrage of responses ...

Can someone please list out the names of Saints players over the last 10 years who played less than 5 games in a season for the Saints that were then delisted (ie not traded) and then went on to cement a spot (ie play 15 or more games a season) in another AFL side...

When you finish the list .. add Ledger's name if you wish.

OK OK that was just too hard a task.

Let's start with a list of Saints players who played less than 5 games in a season that was delisted and went on to play 5 or more games a season at his next AFL club.

Why are you cherry picking 5 games or less?
Guerra, Dawson, Ball - all players we didn't value, have gone onto play grand finals and 3 flags.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Ledger is the messiah, but he wasn't given much opportunity to prove himself after very consistent performances in the twos…

At any rate, your point is valid… the chances of him playing 50 games at another club is highly unlikely.

Height, endurance & attitude against him… skills under pressure another question mark.

[Bernard Shakey]

I don't think anyone is suggesting Ledger is the messiah, but he wasn't given much opportunity to prove himself after very consistent performances in the twos…

At any rate, your point is valid… the chances of him playing 50 games at another club is highly unlikely.

Height, endurance & attitude against him… skills under pressure another question mark.

So, you're happy he's gone, or are you happy to hang onto someone who is short, has no tank and has attitude problems?

[dragit]

I don't think anyone is suggesting Ledger is the messiah, but he wasn't given much opportunity to prove himself after very consistent performances in the twos…

At any rate, your point is valid… the chances of him playing 50 games at another club is highly unlikely.

Height, endurance & attitude against him… skills under pressure another question mark.

So, you're happy he's gone, or are you happy to hang onto someone who is short, has no tank and has attitude problems?

I would have liked to have seen him play 10 or so games this year… perhaps in place of TDL, Saad, Milne, Milera, CJ… all struggling, all unlikely to figure much in our re-build IMO.

He looked okay in the limited opportunities I caught. I'm not too upset he's gone though…

[BigMart]

As I said a month ago,

Claremont or Fremantle will have Tom next year.... Either way he'll be a premiership player....

If at Claremont he will get back on a list the following year... He will play AFL footy again!

[The Redeemer]

So Ledger can kick and CJ cannot kick so how does CJ get a contract?

Because CJ can actually run, stay in the game longer than 8 minutes. Apply AFL quality defensive pressure and has more of an offensive game than ledger

Ledger would struggle to break into west perths senior team right now. Would probably get a game at Claremont

Gee you are a nasty piece of work

What other list would CJ be on in the League?

He is terrible and has been so for multiple years.

So he runs, why not get Usain Bolt by that logic?

[The Redeemer]

So Ledger can kick and CJ cannot kick so how does CJ get a contract?

Because CJ can actually run, stay in the game longer than 8 minutes. Apply AFL quality defensive pressure and has more of an offensive game than ledger

Ledger would struggle to break into west perths senior team right now. Would probably get a game at Claremont

Gee you are a nasty piece of work

What other list would CJ be on in the League?

He is terrible and has been so for multiple years.

So he runs, why not get Usain Bolt by that logic?

[kalsaint]

Does any one remember he was messy with his VFL disposal? The Hawks reminded me why clean disposal is so important today. You don't wear yourself down with a laborious game style. Sad to see him go but sentimentality doesn't win premierships.

This is a really important point for consideration with team lists.

1 Being speedy and clean stops rework and ensures players don't become exhausted through ball recovery actions (ie chasing and tackling excesses),
2 Being clean also enables all player types in the team to be useful in ball transition to forwards not just the select few,
3 Decision making to create is easier when you have the time to dispose the ball without as much pressure.

Note these three are additional to the team game plan execution expectancy. The Ross Lyon game plan is good if the team balance is right but risks the exhaustion of the players on game day. It gets you to finals and even promotes wins but ultimately the cleaner Grand final team will win as in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013. Each of the losers here had sufficient ball usage to win but didn't.

We need to get the team balance right so some players need to go. Hope fully the AFL stop fiddling with the rules to allow this development (as they have stuffed several team's development in the past due to this).

[dragit]

Does any one remember he was messy with his VFL disposal? The Hawks reminded me why clean disposal is so important today. You don't wear yourself down with a laborious game style. Sad to see him go but sentimentality doesn't win premierships.

This is a really important point for consideration with team lists.

1 Being speedy and clean stops rework and ensures players don't become exhausted through ball recovery actions (ie chasing and tackling excesses),
2 Being clean also enables all player types in the team to be useful in ball transition to forwards not just the select few,
3 Decision making to create is easier when you have the time to dispose the ball without as much pressure.

Note these three are additional to the team game plan execution expectancy. The Ross Lyon game plan is good if the team balance is right but risks the exhaustion of the players on game day. It gets you to finals and even promotes wins but ultimately the cleaner Grand final team will win as in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013. Each of the losers here had sufficient ball usage to win but didn't.

We need to get the team balance right so some players need to go. Hope fully the AFL stop fiddling with the rules to allow this development (as they have stuffed several team's development in the past due to this).

Good post, though I personally think Lyon's game plan is more suited to masking a unbalanced list…

Considering the footskills of Blake, Dawson, Ray, Jones, Gilbert, Baker, Clarke, Eddy etc… I think the game plan did a lot to hide their deficiencies.

Agree though that leaving the kicking duties to a few is just unsustainable. Watching Port in the finals this year was a good reminder of what young guys with confidence in their skills can achieve. Hawthorn and Geelong are both pretty awesome across the most of the side, with elite disposal.

[fingers]

Yep good luck young man but it's time to move on. All players that have been kept are there because they offer something structurally - we need mids of a higher quality at the moment.

New/developing Ross, Newnes, Curren, Saunders, Wright (possibly)

Established: Steven, Armitage (may be gone), Monty, Dal (may be gone), CJ (tagger)

Vet: Lenny

It's easy to see why we need more in the established category as there are not many genuine ball users/distributors and right now Ledger won't offer much going forward in the new/developing either.

Did I miss something???

[PJ]

Armo has been mentioned as a possible on the trade table but I'm not sure whether it's a reaction to his affiliation with the "Martin".