Thanks for the laugh loser!!!

[joffaboy]

meh, I like a good Ross Lyon loss as much as the next person but his team still made the GF and we finished 16th or whatever

he's hardly a loser

this. Though I must admit to a bit of shadenfreud towards Ross.

0-4 lol

[Teflon]

You know folks, I may be wrong on this, so let me know if you think I am, BUT,,,,,,,,,, I have a feeling that once our supporters are willing to let go of the past, and focus on the now, and the future, we could have a chance of moving away from the negativity that continues to hold us back.
I wasn't happy at the manner in which Lyon left us, but to be perfectly honest, it could well have been the best thing he did for us in 2011! No future in dwelling in the past!

It doesn't really matter how we perceive the Ross Lyon buy out or how agro we feel about the treacherous act, its the not affecting the way the club is now structured or developing. Keep doing the right thing Scott.

Without the cattle Ross's game plan would amount to nothing. He is only good for formed / developed teams with mature big bodied players. I doubt he would have done better than 15th or 16th with the Saints given the team development now required. He only has a short term approach to success.

I only hope this statement doesn't come back to bite me next year. We seem to be the odd one not building up to a premiership after a bridesmaid year. See below. This is mainly due to him not developing the team list in 2007-2011.

Cats lose to Hawks in 2008 but won in 2009. Cats stay within 8 with list management and youth development.

St Kilda lose to Cats in 2009 but don't win in 2010. No real team youth development follows. RL comments: "We don't want a kindergarden".

The filth win in 2010 after considerable youth development and a modified RL game plan. The lose to Geelong Cats in 2011. Geelong hardened their defensive structure and continue youth development.

Swans develop strong club culture and do the Hawks in 2012. Swans and Hawks lists are well balanced maturity and youth, speed and height. Geelong and Collingwood stay in the top 8 with further list management.

Hawks win 2013 over Dockers (younger list of bigger player types to work with). Will the Lyon curse continue now or has he more years to make a difference if his game plan is good enough. I doubt it as if history is correct the Dockers primary list will be shortened for success.

Nice theory but the Pies one off then drop off "after considerable youth development" probably doesn't help you..

[joffaboy]

Does this mean we have a case now that it was all LYON and his GAMEPLAN that cost us Grand Finals and not the team?

I truly feel sorry for champs like Pav who will NEVER win a flag thanks to Lyon!

no 7.7 to 7.1 costus in 2009.

2010 Lyon put Kosinski in the ruck, Ray on Swan,and Gilbo up forward and almost won us the game from 4 goals down at halftime.

but you tell yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night.

[Middo]

Does this mean we have a case now that it was all LYON and his GAMEPLAN that cost us Grand Finals and not the team?

I truly feel sorry for champs like Pav who will NEVER win a flag thanks to Lyon!

no 7.7 to 7.1 costus in 2009.

2010 Lyon put Kosinski in the ruck, Ray on Swan,and Gilbo up forward and almost won us the game from 4 goals down at halftime.

but you tell yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night.

Almost but no chockies ... loser ..

[Stephen Theodore]

I really think it's low to rejoice in someone's misfortune. I would hope that most Saints fans would have the class to simply maintain a dignified silence on this matter. (particularly in view of the season we've just had)

Well said Jigging Saint.

[SainterK]

Does this mean we have a case now that it was all LYON and his GAMEPLAN that cost us Grand Finals and not the team?

I truly feel sorry for champs like Pav who will NEVER win a flag thanks to Lyon!

no 7.7 to 7.1 costus in 2009.

2010 Lyon put Kosinski in the ruck, Ray on Swan,and Gilbo up forward and almost won us the game from 4 goals down at halftime.

but you tell yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night.

Those behinds not exclusive to the saints it seems...

[whiskers3614]

I really think it's low to rejoice in someone's misfortune. I would hope that most Saints fans would have the class to simply maintain a dignified silence on this matter. (particularly in view of the season we've just had)

The season we have just had is largely attributable to Mr Lyon's tenure at the club.
Guarantee we wouldn't have been as shitful with Luke Ball and a reasonable selection with the pick wasted on that dog Lovett!

[desperate saint]

No its OK when Ross is concerned 0 and 4 love it!I hope we play Freo when next we challenge and Win> now that would be KARMA

[joffaboy]

Does this mean we have a case now that it was all LYON and his GAMEPLAN that cost us Grand Finals and not the team?

I truly feel sorry for champs like Pav who will NEVER win a flag thanks to Lyon!

no 7.7 to 7.1 costus in 2009.

2010 Lyon put Kosinski in the ruck, Ray on Swan,and Gilbo up forward and almost won us the game from 4 goals down at halftime.

but you tell yourself that if it makes you sleep better at night.

Those behinds not exclusive to the saints it seems...

lol

[plugger66]

Well this guy and scollop are funny. Know nothing about the game but help people have a laugh. I admire humour.

[Scollop]

Well this guy and scollop are funny. Know nothing about the game but help people have a laugh. I admire humour.

Thanks for that

Here's some nouns/adjectives that describe you

Pillock. Simpleton. Apologist. Senile.

I'm sure you'll have a chuckle - I did

[thejiggingsaint]

Part of the problem for St Kilda footy club is the unwillingness of a section of our supporters to let sleeping dogs lie, accept history for what it is and focus on the FUTURE. Endlessly agonizing about the GF results in 2009 & 2010 helps our cause not one iota! One of the reasons that Ross Lyon was allowed to leave us was because the board simply didn't do enough to get him signed up! It happened, it was a balls up on a massive scale, BUT NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT NOW! I really think its a scandalous waste of energy to spend it in bagging someone who really doesn't give two hoots about what ANYONE thinks of him, so why waste your energy? Far better to SUPPORT our own club! I'm not upset that Lyon lost the GF, I'm not overjoyed either. I have far too much love for the Saints to spend another minute on matters concerning another coach at another club!

GO SAINTS! (to hell with the rest!)

[The Fireman]

so this is how we get our jollys?
Pathetic isn't it...I was bitterly disappointed and sad when I saw Hawthorn raise the cup realising that I may never see my side do it in my life time. After about 36 years of membership and regular attendance in the vain hope of the chalice.
So we now find ourselves gaining solace in the downfall of others ?

Have we become that bitter?

[Jacks Back]

so this is how we get our jollys?
Pathetic isn't it...I was bitterly disappointed and sad when I saw Hawthorn raise the cup realising that I may never see my side do it in my life time. After about 36 years of membership and regular attendance in the vain hope of the chalice.
So we now find ourselves gaining solace in the downfall of others ?

Have we become that bitter?

It wouldn't be so bad and we probably would feel a bit of sympathy (or empathy?) for Ro$$ Lyin if he had been sacked and had got a gig somewhere else just like I don't hold any grudges against players that have been sacked and moved on. Good luck to them I say.

What I (and some others on here I feel) take exception to is the traitors to our cause that jump ship because of a better offer from somewhere else. Those players and coaches can go a take a flying leap as far as I'm concerned. I seriously hope that Lyin never wins a flag.

GO SAINTS !!!

[stinger]

I really think it's low to rejoice in someone's misfortune. I would hope that most Saints fans would have the class to simply maintain a dignified silence on this matter. (particularly in view of the season we've just had)

ahh....no...

[Harvey To Hayes]

Part of the problem for St Kilda footy club is the unwillingness of a section of our supporters to let sleeping dogs lie, accept history for what it is and focus on the FUTURE. Endlessly agonizing about the GF results in 2009 & 2010 helps our cause not one iota! One of the reasons that Ross Lyon was allowed to leave us was because the board simply didn't do enough to get him signed up! It happened, it was a balls up on a massive scale, BUT NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT NOW! I really think its a scandalous waste of energy to spend it in bagging someone who really doesn't give two hoots about what ANYONE thinks of him, so why waste your energy? Far better to SUPPORT our own club! I'm not upset that Lyon lost the GF, I'm not overjoyed either. I have far too much love for the Saints to spend another minute on matters concerning another coach at another club!

GO SAINTS! (to hell with the rest!)

Ridiculous post. So those of us following Saints for 40+ years without success are just meant to ignore the fact that in two successive years Saints were in the GF and both times we were in front or scores level in the last quarter and we still have nothing to show for it? FFS we DREW a GF, you literally cannot get closer to a flag without winning one. Then the coach who took us there under a strictly imposed 'us against them' philosophy completely backstabs us and signs with a competitor mid-contract - while we were finalising in good faith a lucrative extension with his management with over a year on his contract to run, exploiting a loophole by silence and deception - and we're just meant to forget about it and move on?

I'm personally fine with SW so far - especially with the flawed list he inherited - but it's completely feasible to counter the above argument by saying that if every time somebody in a position of trust burns the Saints we just shrug and move on then they ain't going to stop burning us ever...

I'm stoked Lyon lost, only wish it had been closer or they'd led all day and lost on the siren. It's a tribal pursuit, and you're kidding if you think otherwise...

[Scollop]

Part of the problem for St Kilda footy club is the unwillingness of a section of our supporters to let sleeping dogs lie, accept history for what it is and focus on the FUTURE.

Ridiculous post.

No it's a good post

'H To H'; Some of you cling onto the notion that Ross Lyon got us so close but where is the analysis and the rational evaluation of why we didn't get over the line in 09/10? The blueprint for that success is the players who were there long before Lyon arrived. The footy department laid the foundations and yes as you say - we got close - but footy clubs always have to have one eye on the future.

You may not agree that it was the playing list that was more important than the coach and that's OK because everyone has an opinion...but FFS don't you get it?! He had gone and the players were still with us. We needed to concentrate on the task at hand instead of messiah worshipping. The message as far as I was concerned was that all supporters needed to believe in the players and worship the players - not the snake oil salesman that had just left us to pursue his career coach aspirations.

The legend of RL was pumped up by his media mates and they wanted you to believe that we could not achieve success again for another 40 years because RL was the only bloke and the key bloke that could make it happen. The messiah worshippers could not let go and the sky was suddenly about to fall and the St Kilda footy club was on the brink of extinction. Give us a break!!!

And what now? Well we have a job to do and the task is to rebuild the playing list. The senior players will forever be loved and honoured and respected for what they gave on the footy field. Unfortunately instead of worshipping/supporting the senior players, it's vitally important that the focus is on the next generation and the emerging leadership group that can carry us forward.

[R. Harvey 3 votes!]

You know folks, I may be wrong on this, so let me know if you think I am, BUT,,,,,,,,,, I have a feeling that once our supporters are willing to let go of the past, and focus on the now, and the future, we could have a chance of moving away from the negativity that continues to hold us back.
I wasn't happy at the manner in which Lyon left us, but to be perfectly honest, it could well have been the best thing he did for us in 2011! No future in dwelling in the past!

You make too much sense for this place mate! Ha Ha

[The Redeemer]

I feel comfortable knowing that Rossco saluting in September has been delayed for another year...

[thejiggingsaint]

When the going gets tough; the tough get behind their team!

[St DAC]

Whatever your view about his departure from the Saints Lyon can really coach. Freo lost because they didn't take their opportunities when they had them, the same as us in 2009 (and they, like us, played a very good team to boot). That's is purely down to the players, not the coach. His gameplan put them in position to gain those opportunities, but he cant kick the ball for the players. They squandered many opportunities to score, and Hawthorn pretty much took theirs.

If his gameplan had delivered one extra point in GF1 2010 we'd have been premiers. One more point ... it's not the gameplan at fault.

Might be time for us all to get over it and look to the future ...

[The Redeemer]

Whatever your view about his departure from the Saints Lyon can really coach. Freo lost because they didn't take their opportunities when they had them, the same as us in 2009 (and they, like us, played a very good team to boot). That's is purely down to the players, not the coach. His gameplan put them in position to gain those opportunities, but he cant kick the ball for the players. They squandered many opportunities to score, and Hawthorn pretty much took theirs.

If his gameplan had delivered one extra point in GF1 2010 we'd have been premiers. One more point ... it's not the gameplan at fault.

Might be time for us all to get over it and look to the future ...

Amen.

We tried and it did not work out.

Still luvs the club though.

[Scollop]

Whatever your view about his departure from the Saints Lyon can really coach. Freo lost because they didn't take their opportunities when they had them, the same as us in 2009 (and they, like us, played a very good team to boot). That's is purely down to the players, not the coach. His gameplan put them in position to gain those opportunities, but he cant kick the ball for the players. They squandered many opportunities to score, and Hawthorn pretty much took theirs.

If his gameplan had delivered one extra point in GF1 2010 we'd have been premiers. One more point ... it's not the gameplan at fault.

Might be time for us all to get over it and look to the future ...

Thanks. The simpletons all agree with you. You could get a job on radio or on the special comments team with BT with that type of analysis.

[Harvey To Hayes]

Part of the problem for St Kilda footy club is the unwillingness of a section of our supporters to let sleeping dogs lie, accept history for what it is and focus on the FUTURE.

Ridiculous post.

No it's a good post

'H To H'; Some of you cling onto the notion that Ross Lyon got us so close but where is the analysis and the rational evaluation of why we didn't get over the line in 09/10? The blueprint for that success is the players who were there long before Lyon arrived. The footy department laid the foundations and yes as you say - we got close - but footy clubs always have to have one eye on the future.

You may not agree that it was the playing list that was more important than the coach and that's OK because everyone has an opinion...but FFS don't you get it?! He had gone and the players were still with us. We needed to concentrate on the task at hand instead of messiah worshipping. The message as far as I was concerned was that all supporters needed to believe in the players and worship the players - not the snake oil salesman that had just left us to pursue his career coach aspirations.

The legend of RL was pumped up by his media mates and they wanted you to believe that we could not achieve success again for another 40 years because RL was the only bloke and the key bloke that could make it happen. The messiah worshippers could not let go and the sky was suddenly about to fall and the St Kilda footy club was on the brink of extinction. Give us a break!!!

And what now? Well we have a job to do and the task is to rebuild the playing list. The senior players will forever be loved and honoured and respected for what they gave on the footy field. Unfortunately instead of worshipping/supporting the senior players, it's vitally important that the focus is on the next generation and the emerging leadership group that can carry us forward.

Mate I perversely enjoyed this year watching us develop more young guys than in any prior season and see some of them improve. Maybe the fact we knew we weren't in finals contention early meant that I could absorb the losses and enjoy the positives, but I still watched every game (on TV if I wasn't in same city) and saw us play in NZ and a few interstate games, I back the Saints wholeheartedly but reserve every right to be bitter about the devious way we were played for idiots by Lyon and Freo when we were acting in good faith to lock him in for the long-term stint that had always been openly discussed. I'm pragmatic enough to move forward as you suggest above but I don't see why that has to be mutually exclusive to remembering that we were shafted?

[Johnny Member]

Whatever your view about his departure from the Saints Lyon can really coach. Freo lost because they didn't take their opportunities when they had them, the same as us in 2009 (and they, like us, played a very good team to boot). That's is purely down to the players, not the coach. His gameplan put them in position to gain those opportunities, but he cant kick the ball for the players. They squandered many opportunities to score, and Hawthorn pretty much took theirs.

If his gameplan had delivered one extra point in GF1 2010 we'd have been premiers. One more point ... it's not the gameplan at fault.

Might be time for us all to get over it and look to the future ...

A game plan that yields only 60 points consistently in Grand Finals, clearly means that taking every opportunity becomes much more critical than with a game plan that yields 80-100 points.

In a GF, opportunities are rarer, and conversion is statistically worse than in the regular season.

So I do blame the game plan.


Under Lyon, it's a fact that you don't give yourself as many scoring opportunities. In a Grand Final, it's fact that conversion is lower.

So you do the maths.