Veteran List how many Qualify

[dragit]

You still seem to be struggling here…

The more room in the cap we have down the track the better.

Front loading current players contracts helps this.

Paying a player in his last year a big bonus for no reason doesn't.

[Kickit]

You still seem to be struggling here…

The more room in the cap we have down the track the better.

Front loading current players contracts helps this.

Paying a player in his last year a big bonus for no reason doesn't.

It only helps for the time they are under contract.
So when all the front enders run out, and it aligns with players like Steven wanting a big pay rise in line with his brownlow win what do you do? Front end other players contracts to fit it in?
When we still have retirements like Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, and Dal Santo on the radar, there is no need to front end. The retiring players will free up cap room.

[dragit]

You still seem to be struggling here…

The more room in the cap we have down the track the better.

Front loading current players contracts helps this.

Paying a player in his last year a big bonus for no reason doesn't.

It only helps for the time they are under contract.
So when all the front enders run out, and it aligns with players like Steven wanting a big pay rise in line with his brownlow win what do you do? Front end other players contracts to fit it in?
When we still have retirements like Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, and Dal Santo on the radar, there is no need to front end. The retiring players will free up cap room.

Fortunately the people that count understand that by shifting some of the future salary payments into next years cap (which has plenty of room), we will be in a position to attract quality talent to the club down the track.

[Kickit]

You still seem to be struggling here…

The more room in the cap we have down the track the better.

Front loading current players contracts helps this.

Paying a player in his last year a big bonus for no reason doesn't.

It only helps for the time they are under contract.
So when all the front enders run out, and it aligns with players like Steven wanting a big pay rise in line with his brownlow win what do you do? Front end other players contracts to fit it in?
When we still have retirements like Riewoldt, Hayes, Montagna, and Dal Santo on the radar, there is no need to front end. The retiring players will free up cap room.

Fortunately the people that count understand that by shifting some of the future salary payments into next years cap (which has plenty of room), we will be in a position to attract quality talent to the club down the track.

Its not exactly calculus ( which I do have some ability with ), and quite frankly you continually telling me I don't understand, is giving me the s***s, you condescending prick.
IMO Front ending is a "temporary" solution to free up cap space for a short term over a three year period ( assuming most contracts are not more than 3 years ).
It is temporary because it only lasts the life of a contract term.
Are you going to attract your big talent on some sort of massive one year deal?
It has its uses, when used in a balanced manner.
It could be more of an issue when the big names have all gone, and we are starting to get the likes of Armo, McEvoy and Steven asking for more money.
If we go looking for a big name in 2015 we will be prematurely ejaculating like Carlton did with Judd.

[dragit]

Easy tiger…

Imagine say we somehow get Nat Fyfe interested in coming in 2015… 3 million for 4 years… If we have front-ended a few of our current players we might be able to give Fyfe 1.2 mil for his first year, then 600 for the remaining 3…

Or we could just give Lenny double next year instead I suppose. We couldn't offer the 3 million to Fyfe, cause it doesn't fit in our cap. That would be cool for Lenny though.

[plugger66]

Easy tiger…

Imagine say we somehow get Nat Fyfe interested in coming in 2015… 3 million for 4 years… If we have front-ended a few of our current players we might be able to give Fyfe 1.2 mil for his first year, then 600 for the remaining 3…

Or we could just give Lenny double next year instead I suppose. We couldn't offer the 3 million to Fyfe, cause it doesn't fit in our cap. That would be cool for Lenny though.

All i know is if we front end contracts we give it to our star players. melbourne tried it with younger players and that doesnt seem to have worked. I dont think they will front end unless forced to do it. Should be ok this year but we could be forced to next year depending on retirements and recruiting.

[dragit]

It doesn't matter if it's stars or GOP's… they're not getting paid any more, the money is just moved around… so that when we need to land a FA we have the room.

You could have Ray, Armo, Ben & Gilbert all take 100K of their future salary next year… better than overpaying an old bloke.

Would be stupid to not pay most of the cap next year and then miss out on a couple of very good free agents in 2 years time when we'll need them.

[plugger66]

It doesn't matter if it's stars or GOP's… they're not getting paid any more, the money is just moved around… so that when we need to land a FA we have the room.

You could have Ray, Armo, Ben & Gilbert all take 100K of their future salary next year… better than overpaying an old bloke.

Would be stupid to not pay most of the cap next year and then miss out on a couple of very good free agents in 2 years time when we'll need them.

I understand that it doesnt matter if they are stars or not. Im not talking about the money situation Im talking about motivation. Im unsure it is wise to give young kids or GOPS money up front. it may end up the same over 3 years but players in year one getting more than their true worth may have motication issues later on when earning stuff all. We will have no trouble in 2 years getting FA. We maybe forced to pay up front to get to 95% but it wouldnt be the way i would go if there other ways around it.

[dragit]

It doesn't matter if it's stars or GOP's… they're not getting paid any more, the money is just moved around… so that when we need to land a FA we have the room.

You could have Ray, Armo, Ben & Gilbert all take 100K of their future salary next year… better than overpaying an old bloke.

Would be stupid to not pay most of the cap next year and then miss out on a couple of very good free agents in 2 years time when we'll need them.

I understand that it doesnt matter if they are stars or not. Im not talking about the money situation Im talking about motivation. Im unsure it is wise to give young kids or GOPS money up front. it may end up the same over 3 years but players in year one getting more than their true worth may have motication issues later on when earning stuff all. We will have no trouble in 2 years getting FA. We maybe forced to pay up front to get to 95% but it wouldnt be the way i would go if there other ways around it.

Understand what you are getting at… I guess ideally you could front end more players a small amount, rather than big amounts for one or two.

Ten players taking 50K more next year should not effect motivation for the following couple of years, but having 500K extra down the track would be unbelievably helpful…

[Kickit]

Remembering that you probably need to re-negotiate contracts to front end them ( but most players should be happy with the same deal front ended , rear ended contracts need a bit more motivation.

Front ending scenario.
Lets say we take 4 players on 300K per year.
We pay them all 400K next year and the year after then 100K in 2016 So Suddenly we have 1,2 Million available under the cap in 2016.
Then we get Fyfe we pay him 1.2million maybe a bit more.
But then in 2017 we have four players all wanting 400k per year, which would take 1.2 million out of the cap. Leaving not enough for Fyfe. So then we have to convince some of the players to tail end their contract, but their managers will advise them that the contract needs to be bigger to be equivalent.

I take your point that you can offer a one year "enticement" for big names, but I see it as something that can spiral out of control over a long term.
I think with the StKilda list as it is now, they should be trying to stabilise the average salary at close to the 95% minimum. ( which would give us enough space to attract big players ).
Based on the assumption that everyone wants more money in future and no-one wants a pay cut , fine tuning to reach the minimum can be done by paying extra to vet's that we know will be retiring and keeping a lid on the young players ( and front loading is an EFFECTIVE pay increase).

I'll admit I was being a bit tongue in cheek when I suggested pay it all to Lenny ( but he's done plenty of work over the years and its funny he's never the one that's been mentioned in terms of massive salary).

As long as we have no players like Fev , then I'd recommend we pay them daily.

[dragit]

Front ending scenario.
Lets say we take 4 players on 300K per year.
We pay them all 400K next year and the year after then 100K in 2016 So Suddenly we have 1,2 Million available under the cap in 2016.
Then we get Fyfe we pay him 1.2million maybe a bit more.
But then in 2017 we have four players all wanting 400k per year, which would take 1.2 million out of the cap. Leaving not enough for Fyfe. So then we have to convince some of the players to tail end their contract, but their managers will advise them that the contract needs to be bigger to be equivalent.

Sorry for the delay, I was at the pub…
I know you mentioned you are across calculus but…
Your scenario doesn't make any sense…
If we have 4 players on 400K for 2016, wouldn't we be expecting/allocating a similar amount for the 2017 cap anyway?

The 1.2 mil I mentioned for Fyfe is an extra amount saved from front loading, the 4 players on 400K each should already be an expected expense, nothing to do with the 1.2 mil saved… that's the whole point.

It's pretty simple addition, subtraction stuff.

[saintspremiers]

Dragit commented :

Is he?
I hope you're right…
Letting your coach be head-hunted and having the lowest membership in the comp & struggling for any major sponsors doesn't fill me with enormous confidence.
I won't profess to know the inner dealing of the club to make a proper judgment.

Just seems weird that a club which hasn't got enough money to pay the players is paying the CEO top dollar, surely the financial state of the club is a responsibility of the corporate staff? Their salaries should reflect performance IMO, just like the players.

I have empathy with your comments, Dragit. Also, the enormous, but un-publicised staff turnover is another indicator about how well things are run internally at the Saints.

If that's the case Netters has to go. But we don't want to fork out a big redundancy either

[Kickit]

Front ending scenario.
Lets say we take 4 players on 300K per year.
We pay them all 400K next year and the year after then 100K in 2016 So Suddenly we have 1,2 Million available under the cap in 2016.
Then we get Fyfe we pay him 1.2million maybe a bit more.
But then in 2017 we have four players all wanting 400k per year, which would take 1.2 million out of the cap. Leaving not enough for Fyfe. So then we have to convince some of the players to tail end their contract, but their managers will advise them that the contract needs to be bigger to be equivalent.

Sorry for the delay, I was at the pub…
I know you mentioned you are across calculus but…
Your scenario doesn't make any sense…
If we have 4 players on 400K for 2016, wouldn't we be expecting/allocating a similar amount for the 2017 cap anyway?

The 1.2 mil I mentioned for Fyfe is an extra amount saved from front loading, the 4 players on 400K each should already be an expected expense, nothing to do with the 1.2 mil saved… that's the whole point.

It's pretty simple addition, subtraction stuff.

You do know that the Salary cap operates on a year to year basis, front ending only shuffles it to a different time.
All you are doing with your front ending is creating space in one particular year. While a big payment is no doubt an incentive, surely most people are interested in ongoing salary?
In fact you are almost committing to then taking your big player three years in the future.
Meanwhile players like Hayes, DalSanto, Montagna, Fisher, and Riewoldt will still be freeing up cap space as they retire.