Animal Enclosure rules VS Fan Forum Rules here?

[asiu]

maybe i shouldnt be writing this
'n i certainly mean no personal disrespect

but i dont trust you Simon.

you fronted up on the boards ,
asking for support
stating that you were going to put your money and time
into bringing SS up to speed ,
with the first order of business being finding the current owner n sorting out the admin.

... you also stated that you had no desire to be a mod.

what did we actually get.

the 'iron glove' approach to a back to the 50's do as i say coz i know better and we'll all be happy moderation blitz
supported by a choose between these 2.2 options community consultation process.

this latest example ... of threatening to remove the G1 is dandyboy stuff.

history simon ... history

chinese on friday night in caufield wasnt it
boy wonder his dad bevo and you and a few

the G1 has exactly the same history.
we come from that moment also

the posters ,
those who contribute
make this place ... always have !

wheres your right come from to threaten us with eradication ?

i thought you sold yourself to the people
on representing the community to the slack arsed admin / owners
'n giving us a site worthy of participation


or is it all about being a site the Club feels a little safer dealing with ?

coz , imo , you aint looking out for this part of the community
which is understandable
even a little less understandabley unforgivable
when you've never interacted with it.

just to bring this post full circle ... GT visited your sacred Fan Forum not so long ago
... wheres Grant now ?

it wasnt the classless Geneal Forum
that bored and ridiculed him away.

Maybe we should be sending our shite threads to the Sham Forum.

Fair Dinkum.

[BackFromUSA]

maybe i shouldnt be writing this
'n i certainly mean no personal disrespect

--> no offense taken

but i dont trust you Simon.

--> you are entitled not to trust me - after all I am just a nic on a forum to you

you fronted up on the boards ,
asking for support
stating that you were going to put your money and time
into bringing SS up to speed ,
with the first order of business being finding the current owner n sorting out the admin.

--> all true and I reported my finding that we all own this site as it is funded by the collective monies raised

--> I have put significant time getting the forums running smoothly but we have obviously still having trouble with the General Forum and we are big enough to realize this ... And are seeking input into a solution in collaborative manner

--> I have briefed my own web guy re creating a website that integrates this forum as well as Facebook and Twitter and hopefully making this smartphone friendly - this is a massive undertaking and our timeline was always to get the forums right and in the off season work on the actual site and I am doing this out of own funds

... you also stated that you had no desire to be a mod.

--> true. And I still don't want to be a mod. It takes up 1-2 hours per day. I don't have that time spare. In fact it holds up other work I could be doing to improve the total site

what did we actually get.

the 'iron glove' approach to a back to the 50's do as i say coz i know better and we'll all be happy moderation blitz
supported by a choose between these 2.2 options community consultation process.

--> hmmm have you missed the bit where I am open to other solutions and still await yours?

this latest example ... of threatening to remove the G1 is dandyboy stuff.

--> I am surprised you read it as a threat ... But certainly it is one possibility

history simon ... history

chinese on friday night in caufield wasnt it
boy wonder his dad bevo and you and a few

--> not sure of the relevance here (sorry)

the G1 has exactly the same history.
we come from that moment also

--> actually the Fan Forum existed way before that fundraiser ... But I don't see the relevance of this anyway

--> what I am trying to do is find the structure / set of rules / moderators etc to make all forums work

the posters ,
those who contribute
make this place ... always have !

--> totally agree

wheres your right come from to threaten us with eradication ?

--> again there is no threat ... Just a statement of fact that Saintsational is first and foremost a St Kilda related site

--> what is true is that if we can't find a workable solution to the General Forum where the community can exist then the Saintsational site itself might be the wrong location and we could look at relocating it ... Down the track ... Just one option

i thought you sold yourself to the people
on representing the community to the slack arsed admin / owners
'n giving us a site worthy of participation

--> well I am trying to represent the community
--> nobody owns the site (well we all do)
--> all Admin and Mods are voluntary so calling them slack arse is unfair


or is it all about being a site the Club feels a little safer dealing with ?

--> I wouldn't have a clue about what the club does or doesn't want with Saintsational

coz , imo , you aint looking out for this part of the community
which is understandable
even a little less understandabley unforgivable
when you've never interacted with it.

--> correct that I hardly post in the General Forum
--> incorrect to say that I am not looking out for the General Forum community
--> simple fact is that I have spent many hours trying to find a practical rules solution
--> I am open to others making suggestions on how it can work and have asked you too
--> whatever the solution it needs ongoing and fair moderation at least 5 times the volume of fan forum
--> who would you suggest could moderate the General Forum that
(A) has the time to moderate
(B) has the backing / respect of forum members
(C) is willing to take the abuse that the moderators receive


just to bring this post full circle ... GT visited your sacred Fan Forum not so long ago
... wheres Grant now ?

--> he left because of the behavior allowed to exist under the old rules and lack of moderation

it wasnt the classless Geneal Forum
that bored and ridiculed him away.

--> true. It was the old version of fan forum. One of the reasons I volunteered to get involved as a volunteer.


Maybe we should be sending our shite threads to the Sham Forum.

--> More than willing to see your suggested General Forum rules suggestion
--> More than willing to review your list of willing, able and acceptable moderator candidates

Fair Dinkum.

Indeed.

[BackFromUSA]

errrr
no one voted on any rules
so lets clear that up right now

re the 'rules and the AE'

heres and idea, just a small one, might not be that popular tho
how about you ask for some more moderators and set one set of bloody rules and stick by them??
dont be nazi like and dont be a free for all.

and its been how many weeks since this stared?
how far have you got simon?
you seem to be wanting to do he right thing but NOTHING has moved forward
christ sake the questions asked months ago about the site were all answered by us explaining what we would like as a forum, and not one thin has been done
obviously admin and the owners are too busy
this site is still languishing in the 90s and we're worrying about rules in the general forum, that you guys changed to what it is now.....hows that working out???

should have been:
appoint more mods
get the rules straight (in fact they werent that bad, just not enforced)
update the site

instead you guys changed rules i one area, so now there is two sets of rules, neither followed because there arent enough mods, and now we're discussing these new second lot of rules because they dont appear to be working

i mean.....sereiously????????

Matrix

Are you volunteering to help? I would love someone help me get this all done. What skills can you offer? Would you like to coordinate the redevelopment of the website to integrate this forum and also integrate into the website Facebook and Twitter feeds? Would you like to recruit and manage actual journalists that I want to contribute to the site? Or would you like to liaise with the club to get player interviews / chat sessions which is something I am attempting?

As for site changes to date.

Some technical issues have been fixed. These may not have impacted you but have made the Saintsational experience better for others and some if the things that you and others have listed will not be done e.g.

- not being able to post immediately after a post (remains because it prevents spambots spamming)

- not allowing editing of posts after 5 minutes (remains as posters have a history of re-writing their posts AFTER the get into an argument in order to win their argument ... Amongst several other reasons)

However we do have other features requested like indicators that show new threads and other indicators that show new posts in threads since last sign in. This I believe is available in the recommended settings.

HOWEVER

The first focus was to get the main forum - the Fan Forum working well. We feel this has been achieved.

The major site remodeling will be done in the off season as previously stated.

As for the General Forum - we are trying very hard to find a solution.

As per my reply above - please suggest who might have the desire, time, fairness and approval of others to be a moderator on the General Forum? And what set of rules they would be moderating.

If you would like to volunteer ... Please PM me or outline here what role you would like to take.

[BackFromUSA]

Worth a read....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82579

...doesn't seem to be a lot of consensus there.......

...you weren't overly enamoured by the proposed changes either, stinger.

The interesting thing is what I wrote in that thread;


Animal Enclosure was flagged from when I first got re involved ...

I had many people input ideas to how this could work ...

The current general forum is litered with content that breaches the old rules ... However it was not able to be effectively moderated and as such represented a much greater risk to the Saintsational site than the new Animal Enclosure.

As an example the JLH thread should have been shut down under the old rules ... Allowed as a thread in Animal Enclosure.

As for being subject to abuse ... if it gets too out of hand ... We can always change the rules or shut it down but at this stage the Animal Enclosure can operate just like society ... If someone is being rude / abusive / baiting it is up to the rest of the community to use their collective voice to fight against such behaviour.

SO NOW I AM BACK TO THE COMMUNITY TRYING TO GET CONSENSUS ON RULES AND MODERATION THAT ARE WORKABLE!

[stinger]

errrr
no one voted on any rules
so lets clear that up right now

r?

well....consensus then.....it was my understanding everyone agreed on the no rules policy for the general forum.....

No, it was imposed, shortly after the suggestion was raised.
I have no problem if the rules for this are the same as the other forums, i.e. all can disagree, but personal abuse is dealt with.
I would suggest there also be a rule about "over reporting" of posts. For example, if 90% of complaints are from one poster, then maybe that poster has issues, and not the forum........

or maybe that poster is being bullied by a mob...

[stinger]

Worth a read....

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82579

...doesn't seem to be a lot of consensus there.......

...you weren't overly enamoured by the proposed changes either, stinger.

geez...you don't expect me to wade through that muck do you?????

[GrumpyOne]

he's a liar too...i've seen photos.....

I've been framed?

Or just mounted?

[stinger]

... If someone is being rude / abusive / baiting it is up to the rest of the community to use their collective voice to fight against such behaviour.

SO NOW I AM BACK TO THE COMMUNITY TRYING TO GET CONSENSUS ON RULES AND MODERATION THAT ARE WORKABLE!

imho...it is the collective voice of the socialists on here that is the problem...if you start a thread criticising the left or praising the right of politics...they attack the poster...not the post...and then complain to you guys if someone abuses them back...has always been that way since they formed into a lynch mob.....

....don't allow attacks on the poster and you have fixed the problem.....easy as that.....afaic....

[HitTheBoundary]

or maybe that poster is being bullied by a mob...

I am not part of a mob. I don't personally know any of the posters here, and do not communicate with them outside of what I post here publicly. If a majority of people here hold a similar view, or respond in a similar manner, this does not mean they are a mob, or acting in unison, or a coordinated way.

If there is a bad smell in a room, and we are all offended by it, it just means we have a similar response.
The solution to the problem is to address the smell, not to blame those who are offended by it.

[markp]

If someone is being rude / abusive / baiting it is up to the rest of the community to use their collective voice to fight against such behaviour.

Some call that community a (lynch) mob.

Another option would be for you to simply ban that hypothetical rude/abusive/baiting poster, then all these hand wringing threads about potential rule changes and standards of behaviour would be superfluous.

[matrix]

Matrix

Are you volunteering to help? I would love someone help me get this all done. What skills can you offer? Would you like to coordinate the redevelopment of the website to integrate this forum and also integrate into the website Facebook and Twitter feeds? Would you like to recruit and manage actual journalists that I want to contribute to the site? Or would you like to liaise with the club to get player interviews / chat sessions which is something I am attempting?

As for site changes to date.

Some technical issues have been fixed. These may not have impacted you but have made the Saintsational experience better for others and some if the things that you and others have listed will not be done e.g.

- not being able to post immediately after a post (remains because it prevents spambots spamming)

- not allowing editing of posts after 5 minutes (remains as posters have a history of re-writing their posts AFTER the get into an argument in order to win their argument ... Amongst several other reasons)

However we do have other features requested like indicators that show new threads and other indicators that show new posts in threads since last sign in. This I believe is available in the recommended settings.

HOWEVER

The first focus was to get the main forum - the Fan Forum working well. We feel this has been achieved.

The major site remodeling will be done in the off season as previously stated.

As for the General Forum - we are trying very hard to find a solution.

As per my reply above - please suggest who might have the desire, time, fairness and approval of others to be a moderator on the General Forum? And what set of rules they would be moderating.

If you would like to volunteer ... Please PM me or outline here what role you would like to take.

no im not volunteering to help
i havent been asked
which is funny
you harp on about how much work you have to do but you have put no expressions of interest out to the forum asking for help but youre having a slight dig at me in the opening of that post?
over the years plenty here have offered to help
do you know what response they got?
they got shouted down by the peanuts that 'own' the place and ignored by admin
all they wanted was the money to pay the sever, no explanation on what they were using the money for, how much we raised and compared to how much the costs were
nothing
so back to the sly volunteering
why not ask in the forum for help????
all ive seen is you appoint dalsantos girl mod
now im sure like me many others do not have a prob with this one bit
we dont know her, and she certainly has been a decent poster when she posts but wheres her help??
is she expected to do it all alone?
because you certainly dont see the others around here and you certainly dont see them doing anything
wheres your help simon???
how the f*** can you police something and enforce rules when you dont have enough police, and youve never asked for help!?
what? you expect us to go running to the admin and offer it?
really, after past experience in trying to get this forum the best on the net
plenty of offers were made, money wise, work wise...f****** hell SEN wrote whole new set of rules ffs, thats sounds like someone who once cared and wouldve been a great help, has plenty of contacts too.
alas it was not accepted and igoned

Would you like to coordinate the redevelopment of the website to integrate this forum and also integrate into the website Facebook and Twitter feeds?
nope
i know nothing about pcs and couldnt give two shites about facebook and twitter, i use neither, good idea for the site tho, we've been asking for around 4 years for this to be done and i believe you have an admin bloke who does all this adminy techie kinda stuff already?
what? he cant keep up? he has a life too i guess huh?
well why dont you f****** ask the forum for help!!!!!
you never know, someone out there might be a pc genius, do this for a living, day to day????

Would you like to recruit and manage actual journalists that I want to contribute to the site?

nope
i have no interest in journos coming here and putting pieces to the site
where was that on the list of things people wanted out of this place?
maybe it was there, i dont remember

Or would you like to liaise with the club to get player interviews / chat sessions which is something I am attempting?
yeah sure
ill just swing over on the weekend in the car
if i leave friday night at midnight after work i should be there around 9am
maybe i can crash at your house??
no, seriously, getting the club to be involved with SS???
they have wanted nothing to do with us from day one
we arent affiliated with the afl or the club, i believe legality stops all that bulls***
if you can pull that one off then i congratulate you already in advance, would be quite a feat



some if the things that you and others have listed will not be done e.g.
not being able to post immediately after a post (remains because it prevents spambots spamming)

good one
we've never had a prob with spam bots posting
we've had a prob with no moderators being here when yappa44 went on a mad posting spree of threads
gee imagine if he had to wait 30 secs each time
he wouldve had only 30 threads going not 60 and prob only 50 posts not 100
he was a person, we have probs with trolls, not spam bots
the only crap thing ive seen is the one that used to go into general about buying a f****** kitchen in norfolk england once a month
thats it!!
spam bots my ass
not allowing editing of posts after 5 minutes (remains as posters have a history of re-writing their posts AFTER the get into an argument in order to win their argument ... Amongst several other reasons)


massive change, on a global scale
seriously dont really care about that, do you think ill want to change this ten mins after ive typed it, to win an argument??
no sorry im not that particular poster (we all know who)
hey but if that helps peopl not cheat at winning an argument then double thumbs up

he first focus was to get the main forum - the Fan Forum working well. We feel this has been achieved.

errr nothings changed simon
so on that note it must of always been working well
youve introduced a 5 sec post wait thingy because of the spambots posting everywhere ( )
and peeps cant edit posts after its been typed for more than 5 mins

yup
got that part over there working lovely
it never needed to be fixed, it needed mods

The major site remodeling will be done in the off season as previously stated.
it is the off season, we aint in finals therefore its off season

As per my reply above - please suggest who might have the desire, time, fairness and approval of others to be a moderator on the General Forum? And what set of rules they would be moderating.
who the blue hazes is going to want to mood in there now wit hthe free for all going on
i read two posts in there
hbo and maybe jlh (which apparently is a no no under current rules)
well pull it then, pardon the pun,
if its against the rules pull the f****** thing
who gives a toss really, gee chicks in bikinis and pics of jlh
oh no the forum will melt done
rubbish, few will whine for a day and it will be all forgotten
its only a thread with good looking women in it

but youve let it be a free for all in general
now whats going to happen when you try to throw rules at that area?
what do you think the backlash is going to be

hey, heres a couple of cans of spray paint go you hardest with your best mural
then a month later you go paint over it and say no more spray cans????

f*** no, i dont even want to be associated with over there

and why am i suggesting who might have the time and desire????
you took this role on simon (and seriously, good luck, because no one else could get a word in with the people that run the show)
how about the admin and mods ASK in the forum?
hey you might get silence, wouldnt surprise me after the last time help was offered a few years ago
'

so
doing the reverse psych thingy wont work on me
sorry
could you imagine me as a mod??
i mean seriously, you want me to be a moderator??
how about no
yeah thats right
im having a whinge and not being part of the solution to fix it
why
60hrs a week at work adn two and a half acres of land to look after
sorry cant be reading every friggin thread and pulling stinger and his baying mob ( ) apart from each other 24/7
but i reckon if you ask, maybe, just maybe.....there might be a chance that you might get some help?
probable????
oh and what happened to the original statement that was put out there?

'admin chooses admin and the posters can vote on the mods appointed'

see when you make statements like that, and then it doesnt happen
it doesnt do your or the other Oz's that live behind the curtains credibility any god what so ever

i admire you simon
admire that you want to get this site up and going
hey this place should be that far ahead of all the others in looks and ability its not funny, we have the power in numbers, we can certainly raise coin, when the veil is lifted and we all know where the coin is going.

if you want help do a post, ask for it from everyone, ask for mods or for people to vote on mods, see we cant even have a poll to get the ball rolling because it was taken away

[stinger]

or maybe that poster is being bullied by a mob...

I am not part of a mob. I don't personally know any of the posters here, and do not communicate with them outside of what I post here publicly. If a majority of people here hold a similar view, or respond in a similar manner, this does not mean they are a mob, or acting in unison, or a coordinated way.

If there is a bad smell in a room, and we are all offended by it, it just means we have a similar response.
The solution to the problem is to address the smell, not to blame those who are offended by it.

bulls***.....of course you are part of a mob...and f****** one eyed to boot...you said early that i was the only one to use abusive language...you obviously either don't read..or you condone the filth directed my way....you sir are a clown and lack any credibility with me.....


every last one of you is a left wing bleeding heart...the lib voters don't have a problem with me...or at least most of them don't.....

[stinger]

If someone is being rude / abusive / baiting it is up to the rest of the community to use their collective voice to fight against such behaviour.

Some call that community a (lynch) mob.

Another option would be for you to simply ban that hypothetical rude/abusive/baiting poster, then all these hand wringing threads about potential rule changes and standards of behaviour would be superfluous.

one more of the lynch mob trying to get their way......


..i have never abused a mod ...but by the sounds of bfusa, you lot are fairly abusive to the mods....well...i know it isn't me....

[Dis Believer]

or maybe that poster is being bullied by a mob...

Irrelevant of how loud the mob bays, every adult still controls their own behaviour and responses.........

[Dis Believer]

Couple of contributions to points here, just because I can.

1) the JLH thread. Whilst I rarely ever look in the thread, it isn't porn, at worst it's some girls in bikinis. If we are going to ban that sort of stuff (which exists purely as eye candy), then we will also need to ban threads from the female posters in the off=-season when they post phot's of the boys from training, running around with their tops off. They exist purely as eye candy for the girls. It cuts both ways.

2) Abuse. It's simple. This forum is like the pub. It is acceptable to say "you're a d**khead if you can't see that Labor are useless socialist leeches". It's not OK to say "you're a d**khead, and a pedophile, and pole smoker and a sack of s***". Simple, pointless, litanies of abuse would cop you a smack in the mouth at a pub. They shouldn't be tolerated here under the guise of "we're all grown ups with free speech". This place has descended into a sewer in the past few weeks. There has been a group of left leaners that dominated content, but the middle grounders and right leaners have started to catch up, and the discussion is more balanced than it was. But certain elements have descended into puerile slanging matches with no pretence of debate. What a waste of bandwidth.

[HitTheBoundary]

you sir are a clown and lack any credibility with me.....

For someone who seemingly likes to hurl abuse, you are very thin skinned.

As for your comment, this is a good example of self regulation. You think I'm a clown, fair enough.
But what I am opposed to is people being called far more offensive and abusive terms, without any discussion or debate of the topic.

[desertsaint]

Just add that in regards to the general forum being nothing to do with the saints.
This isn't st kilda fc - this is saintsational - a forum for st kilda supporters. As such the GF has everything to do with saintsational.
I think it's pretty clear that all we need is to have a place where opinions can be voiced, discussions take place, and a casual level of respect is expected.
Yes it may require some moderation, but the GF is just as worthy of time investment as the main forum.
We had a pretty comprehensive set of rules created by a user some time ago. Why not continue to use them?
If someone continually breaches the rules, be it through abusing, stalking, trolling etc then use the warning system, followed by a suspension. This place should be a more adult environment, so some level of argy bargy is to be expected,
but each thread and post should be treated on its own merit - and baggage from other threads and past history should not be brought into new threads.

[markp]

And BFUSA, if you're looking for potential GF mods (and if they'd consider doing it!), you'd do well to look at SEN, MM, desertsaint... all eminently reasonable and decent chaps.

I still cant believe SanterK and Saintbrat haven't been offered a gig on the main forum either, but I digress.

Anyway as far as the GF goes, it looks to me as if all bar one poster are pretty much on the same page anyway.

[GrumpyOne]

....don't allow attacks on the poster and you have fixed the problem.....easy as that.....afaic....

What a good idea Stinger.

Can I now post all the things you have called me over the years?

[plugger66]

And BFUSA, if you're looking for potential GF mods (and if they'd consider doing it!), you'd do well to look at SEN, MM, desertsaint... all eminently reasonable and decent chaps.

I still cant believe SanterK and Saintbrat haven't been offered a gig on the main forum either, but I digress.

Anyway as far as the GF goes, it looks to me as if all bar one poster are pretty much on the same page anyway.

I will get there. Its taking time to get my head around it.

[GrumpyOne]

It's too big to quote from, but the above post by Matrix should be compulsory reading.

Sums up a lot of what is wrong with this forum, from the possessiveness and secrecy of the "owners", to the refusal of the Mods to pull the serial abuser into line.

[asiu]

thanx Simon.
(for not taking offence)

... the community conversation is now underway
... thats what was needed.

i do not agree with you
or other members of the community
who believe the G1 needs 5 times the level of moderation than the Ham Forum.

therefore ,
my way of doing things ,
(community self moderation)
which were 'trialed' in another place
(version 1 and 2) ... did , in my opinion , work well.

the flaw was ,
as here ,

it only takes 1 snake in the grass to create absolute mayhem.

i walked away
basically very disappointed and disillusioned

and i watch the pattern continue here.

certainly , ideas / needs re version 3 have percolated
with mistakes from version 1&2 contemplated

but my way doesnt resonate with you or your way

i am 'basically' a creative
you are 'basically' a controller

sort of pointless , presenting my thoughts , when the reality is ,
never the twain shall meet.

[Dave McNamara]

herefore ,
my way of doing things ,
(community self moderation)
which were 'trialed' in another place
(version 1 and 2) ... did , in my opinion , work well.

the flaw was ,
as here ,

it only takes 1 snake in the grass to create absolute mayhem.

i walked away
basically very disappointed and disillusioned

and i watch the pattern continue here.

I seem to be the only one, but I miss JPBFC.

I always saw his avatar as deliberately ironic... never understood why he changed it to a meaningless speedboat though...

Other than that Gaz, I can't think of another snake in the grass, regardless of political or footballing allegiances.

[asiu]

you are not tryn to hard then Dave.

'n i dont give a care about political or football allegiances , speedboats or sexual preferences

just honourable open 'n upfront behaviours

.... a community cancer ,
is a communities problem.

the pattern was there for everyone to observe

but
theres none as blind as those who will not see.

and like around here , yet again , regardless of all the efforts

doomed to being whiteanted to death
as the snakes congratulate themselves on their respective brilliance.

[Dave McNamara]

Hi Gaz, leaving aside for a moment any cold-blooded postings in the GF/AE, when typing my query in the previous post I actually had 'in another place' primarily in mind(?)