Finey on SEN

[BackFromUSA]

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.

[maverick]

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.

Well said

[The OtherThommo]

It doesn't seem all that long ago I was reading very favorable commentary on here from those who copped the invites to Seaford to listen to The Pelican, and others, about the club's strategy. I can't recall too much criticism from those who were there but I do remember a lot of very favorable reportage, even from self confessed doubters.

Since then, we've had the round 23 celebration, a couple of retirements, the Dwarf torching and Greg Hutchison being moved on (and, as Bratty put up, the Tig's followed us into making the Hutchison equivalent position redundant, a few days later).

Other than that, opinions on list management matters have caused some angst. The drums start beating, media speculation drives all ranges of opinions and the annual merry go round kicks off, again. Throw in the reports about the Fish and Armo association with Dusty, and it's a circus.

Personally, I just trust Dal will be left to make his own decision, which he is entitled to do under the terms of his optional contract extension. Other than that, what will be, will be. Meanwhile, over at the Dorks, they've just removed their offer to Buddy - in prelim final week. Not saying they're in strife, just that this is now the norm.

I just don't see how we're supposedly melting down.

And, I certainly don't buy it because Mark Fine says it's so. That's his schtick, and his schtick stinks.

Oh, and please don't trade with E'dope. I wonder if the AFL have got a plan to handle the nightmare of infraction notices issued after trades have been done.

[The OtherThommo]

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.

I likes me a good investigation. Superbly argued.

[dragit]

Well I did a bit of investigating after Finey's bombshell, and it looks like he was right about Scott Watters lack of popularity. Scotts facebook page has 20 dislikes. Plus in the comments section someone has suggested he could work from home and earn $1000 a day so they must know he's going to get the sack. In the men's toilet at Linton Street someone has scrawled on a cubicle wall "SW is a knob coat" and "AR Rules!". It looked like Ledgers writing but I couldn't be sure. Apparently in the canteen he eats by himself softely singing "All by myself...." .There is a hurtful joke going around the club: "knock knock....who's there?.....Scott.....Scott who?......Scott no friends". Its a sorry state.

Ledger!!! Come to my office!!

I hird Clint Jones is doing a performance of the bee gees classic "I started a joke" on the footy show GF extravaganza.

[Teflon]

Tks BFUSA genuine insight with no emotion is great

Fancy a radio spot ???

[markp]

Good work BFUSA!

[dragit]

Rather than believe I investigated

Thanks for sharing BFUSA. It really does make a difference to hear some genuine accounts of the situation, not just the radio program of a mate of the guy that just got the sack...

None of us know if SW is going to make a good coach, but not much good can come of sacking him now. It would just be another huge knee-jerk reaction in our history of many.

[HitTheBoundary]

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed.

It will be interesting to see how this works (and whether it works) long term.

Thanks for the post and the info.

[Teflon]

1 things for sure - Pelchen is opinionated and likes control. It happened at Hawks too.

I'm ok with that as long as results come with it. If not he's just another in a conga line of messiahs who fall by the wayside

[gringo]

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.

We don't need people with facts when we could get some highish profile tool supporters white anting the club in public. There is nothing to gain from being positive. Next you will be telling us that the whole dwarf saga wasn't a hate crime of the same magnitude as the holocaust.

[joffaboy]

1 things for sure - Pelchen is opinionated and likes control. It happened at Hawks too.

I'm ok with that as long as results come with it.

How have the Hawks travelled over the past 5 years or so?

Hope he replicates that at the Saints.

Oh and good post BFUSA, nice to get another view.

Seems like Watters hit a nerve with some of the St.Kilda old school of celebrating the close enough is good enough ethos we have endured since 1966.

Sounds like Mark Fine may be one of them.

[savatage]

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.

We don't need people with facts when we could get some highish profile tool supporters white anting the club in public. There is nothing to gain from being positive. Next you will be telling us that the whole dwarf saga wasn't a hate crime of the same magnitude as the holocaust.

+1. You've got some nerve!!

[Dr Spaceman]

Whatever the reality of the situation may be, I say thank you BackFromUSA. Thank you.

[SaintPav]

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed.

So was Pelchin wanting Martin?

[Moods]

Heard the same rumours as Finey before the B&F.

Rather than believe I investigated - something I would expect the media would do ...

- older players understand their role to guide next generation but wish they were being asked to be MORE involved rather than being told that the development staff will do it (so they feel a little disrespected and under valued) but wanting to contribute

- mix aged players are determined to succeed under Scott and excited by the generation under them and believe they can play finals again within a few years with some added recruiting / drafting cream

- younger players ummm love the ummm club and ummm all their teammates and ummm really love the ummm old blokes and Scotty is ummm like amazing to work with

- Tom Ledger blames himself for lack of games - has struggled to add the necessary fitness required to sustain 7-8 minutes of continuous offensive and defensive running that the coach demands to take a place in the midfield and only recently regained his line breaking attack with the ball and his composure with the ball in tight situations

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed. There is great belief in Elshaugh for drafting but this year will be a heavy trade period.

All of this from speaking directly to sober players and tipsy staff members at the b&f.

The rumour is IMHO the interpretation of an ex insider (not player or coaching staff) who feels we could do better than Scott as coach and has spun some dissatisfaction amongst older players and some vigorous but healthy debate between Pelchin and Watters into a rumour about Scott tearing the fabric of the club apart purely to suit their own sack Watters agenda.

This is exactly how St Kilda has failed in the past.

Thank goodness this trouble maker is no longer in a position of authority and thank goodness we have a quality board now - they are smart enough to get to the bottom of these type of rumours AND will sack Scott based on his KPIs when the time comes which will probably be in the post 2016 (if we have not made finals) or 2019 if we have not made a Grand Final.

Unless of course I have exposed myself to a cover up and the original rumour is correct and the club is being torn apart by Watters.

Either way - I wish Mr. Fine had investigated AND either way kept it in-house as this is the sort of rumour that causes more harm than good.

Most sensible post yet on this thread.

[mullet]

TOT and Backfrom usa should get together.

They seem to have the brains to ask the right questions, and find the right person to ask the right questions too.

Chuck in Eastern, and I'd listen to your radio show, or read your paper.

Bring back saints radio I reckon with you three

I am a groupie though, it has been pointed out before

[SainterK]

Thanks BFTUSA

That's the way to do it.

Ask.

Still I choose to remain Switzerland here, too early to call either way.

I challenge finey to come on here, even if it's a one off post, and justify how his outbursts remotely help even if there is an element of truth.

Destabilising, reckless and one sided.

[stinger]

i don't know if scott is a good coach or a bad coach......the decisions not to play ledger and curren earlier in the season appear to have been bad ones judging by their form when they eventually got a game.....can't think of anything else he's done wrong though and even the ones mentioned might have had sound reasoning behind them....but...i'm prepared to give him a go.......can't see what all the fuss is about exactly...he's certainly done nothing that he should be sacked for for goodness sake....

[stinger]

f*** the Fireman too

No need to be flamed by the Fireman.....you're already on fire Scollop......

Too much fire at the Saints these days....

and not enough dwarfs to go round??????

[stinger]

[quote="WellardSaint"]Years ago, the Crows got rid of some crowd favourites -McGuinness; the guy with the boxer's nose, and one other. They said it may disenfranchise supporters but was necessary.
[quote]


jarman

[gringo]

i don't know if scott is a good coach or a bad coach......the decisions not to play ledger and curren earlier in the season appear to have been bad ones judging by their form when they eventually got a game.....can't think of anything else he's done wrong though and even the ones mentioned might have had sound reasoning behind them....but...i'm prepared to give him a go.......can't see what all the fuss is about exactly...he's certainly done nothing that he should be sacked for for goodness sake....

but he said something about mediocrity or something. Back in my day that was enough to take him out the back and shoot him. Once you accept statements about mediocrity it's all over. Has anyone noticed we haven't won a single premiership since he's been there. Disgraceful- and he's quite short which I find an unattractive quality.

Finey should be our coach because he's never disrespected any of our players- well not much, just Raph and Gilbert oh and Mini and said we weren't that good in 2010 and then said we were at the other end of the scale to teams like Richmond who are on the up and stuff. But other than that and a couple of other disrespectful things he's been pretty good.

go finey we need your wisdom now. He will get them to a prelim in his first year using his special brand of respectful disrespect.

[Cairnsman]

Thanks BFTUSA

That's the way to do it.

Ask.

Still I choose to remain Switzerland here, too early to call either way.

I challenge finey to come on here, even if it's a one off post, and justify how his outbursts remotely help even if there is an element of truth.

Destabilising, reckless and one sided.

Finey may have commercial reasons/restrictions for not coming on here as "Mark Fine" as he and/or his employer may not want to promote other media outlets or divert an audience away from SEN.

Having said that I agree totally about "asking"...even if it is your third cousin.

[st_Trav_ofWA]

- Pelchin and Watters do argue but it is healthy debate about the future and what it should look like - both have different jobs and objectives - but the bottom line is that Pelchin wins out and Scotty has to live with the list he is handed.

So was Pelchin wanting Martin?

Pelchen's job is to get the strongest playing list for Scotty to coach - Pelch himself says he distances himself from the players as ultimatly its his job to hire and fire them so he cant develop a pesonal relationship with them , the same could be said about Pelch and Scotty they dont have to be buddy buddies but they do have to respect eachother (and i honestly think they do)...

Pelchen may want dusty , it stands to reason Dusty is a great player and on playing ability alone will improve our team but Scotty is the one ultimatly who has to control him he is the one who has to put his name on the line for Dusty (the media dont care about Pelchen in the back ground its the coaches fault the coach is the face of the club he cops the heat he is the one who has to explain it on tv and in the press conferance). Understandably Scotty isnt as keen on doing that as Dusty is a big risk so i can see where there may be a butting of heads between Pelch and Scotty over this

all in all i think this kind of thing happens at all clubs so im not sure why this gets blown up for our club to me the fact that Pelch and Scotty have differing views is a good thing as we have had many "yes men" run our club and its got us the list situation we have now i would like to think all decisions are looked and debated over means we are takeing the time to make the right choice not just going off halfcocked

[st_Trav_ofWA]

i don't know if scott is a good coach or a bad coach......the decisions not to play ledger and curren earlier in the season appear to have been bad ones judging by their form when they eventually got a game.....can't think of anything else he's done wrong though and even the ones mentioned might have had sound reasoning behind them....but...i'm prepared to give him a go.......can't see what all the fuss is about exactly...he's certainly done nothing that he should be sacked for for goodness sake....

from that point it can be argued that the reason Curren and Ledger made the impact they did was because they were held back early on ... Ledger i know had fitness issues that were a concern from the outside it might look like Ledger is getting overlooked for no good reason but from the inside it might be that he had been set a target to reach and he would not get given an AFL game until he hit that target ... the fact he got those targets meant when he got his go he was effective where if he got his go before then he may have been non effective

there are always two way to look at things i tend to put the faith in the guys who have all the information on the players KPI's