Finey on SEN

[thejiggingsaint]

I've just finished watching the replay of Footy Classified and I thought personally that Caroline Wilson (and the rest of the panel) were reasonable concerning the Saints and the Richmond footy club re Dustin Martin. I wouldn't have a bar of him at the saints myself.

[stinger]

One thing sticks out for me. If Watters was disrespecting the guys who put in so much under Ross Lyon so heavily, then why has Lenny Hayes signed on to play again next year? Sounds to me like Lenny (and Rooey for that matter) are on board with Watters.

makes sense to me...

[Con Gorozidis]

Is there any saints fans honestly convinced either way on Scott yet?

I have issues with much of what he does, but also like a lot of what he's done as well.

Too early to be decisive.

+1

+1
Impossible to tell with our hollow list. Needs time and and some decent young players to work with. Not a bunch of jaded old guys with big but fragile egos looking for big retirement funds.

But if we are sacking him because of some semantics in a speech that hurt some older players 'feelings' we are a joke of a club and a bunch of soft-c*cks.

[joffaboy]

Is there any saints fans honestly convinced either way on Scott yet?

I have issues with much of what he does, but also like a lot of what he's done as well.

Too early to be decisive.

+1

+1
Impossible to tell with our hollow list. Needs time and and some decent young players to work with. Not a bunch of jaded old guys with big but fragile egos looking for big retirement funds.

But if we are sacking him because of some semantics in a speech that hurt some older players 'feelings' we are a joke of a club and a bunch of soft-c*cks.

I agree with both of the above quotes.

Would like some more evidence before I cast my vote. I feel like I am voting above the line on the Senate voting sheet and about to get the Motor Enthusiast in charge

Really Mark Fine has made a huge call. Unless he want to lack ALL credibility, he needs to pony up with names and evidence, not fanboi heresay from a few disgruntled ex employees.

Id he mates with greg Hutchinson by any chance?

[Moods]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

+1

[SainterK]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

Do you really think older players not being happy makes the younger players also unhappy?

Yes?

Every workplace I've been at that's the case.

Impressionable.

[Kickit]

Which side of the alleged rift does Pelchen sit.

Last I heard the playing group didn't like Pelchen much ( which is OK , it makes it easier to live with hard decisions if the guy they work with daily is not directly to blame ).

[Cairnsman]

Of coarse you didn't say it but you are hiding behind snide back biting remarks that you have been seeding on here fairly consistently ever since your third cousin heard from an ex player from the Tony Jewell era that said something to your Dads neighbour.

That have basically been found to be corrrect.

If I said that I know someone that burnt a dwarf I'd be found to be correct too. Just because somebody spreads bitchy comments doesn't give them any credibility.

[plugger66]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

Do you really think older players not being happy makes the younger players also unhappy?

Yes?

Every workplace I've been at that's the case.

Impressionable.

Footy is completely different to most work places. Players dont usually talk about any issues with the club except to their best mates at the club so Im doubtful the younger players would even know about anything unless its in the media. And my guess is the younger players not happy are the ones not getting a game as per any club and coach and has nothing to do with certain older players being unhappy.

[Dr Spaceman]

Aren't there drugs that make you happy? Maybe they could try those ones?

[saintspremiers]

Is all this kerfuffle the exact reason why Lyon created the bubble?

Clearly it was his only way of controlling the crazy elements that is our club's DNA

[Cairnsman]

Garry Ayres is your perfect example of what Ross Lyon could become. Ross Lyon is lauded as the super coach but there are 5 coaches that are in the current system that are better than him based on the fact that they have won a flag since he become a senior AFL coach.

So to answer the earlier question by SainterK, "is anyone convinced either way on SW"? is exactly the same question that should be asked of RL if we are going to boil the debate down to that simplicity. (not having a crack SainterK)...just making a point.

P66 says a similar thing in a different way when he says I will wait until until next year to make a judgement...well DERRRRR!...(now I'm having a crack but only at P66).

[plugger66]

Garry Ayres is your perfect example of what Ross Lyon could become. Ross Lyon is lauded as the super coach but there are 5 coaches that are in the current system that are better than him based on the fact that they have won a flag since he become a senior AFL coach.

So to answer the earlier question by SainterK, "is anyone convinced either way on SW"? is exactly the same question that should be asked of RL if we are going to boil the debate down to that simplicity. (not having a crack SainterK)...just making a point.

P66 says a similar thing in a different way when he says I will wait until until next year to make a judgement...well DERRRRR!...(now I'm having a crack but only at P66).

Well Derrr what ever that means why are you then telling us how good SW is now if its obvious we need to wait until next year. You are the one though who did say Rooy and BJ were cancers of the club.

[SainterK]

It ended in 2010.

2010.

It will be 2014 next time the players run out in the RWB.

[Con Gorozidis]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

+1

Hear hear
If you give the youngens and 'out' or some external excuse they will take that to their own detriment .
We need to re-build brick by brick and young players need to work hard. Look at Jack Steven.

[Cairnsman]

Garry Ayres is your perfect example of what Ross Lyon could become. Ross Lyon is lauded as the super coach but there are 5 coaches that are in the current system that are better than him based on the fact that they have won a flag since he become a senior AFL coach.

So to answer the earlier question by SainterK, "is anyone convinced either way on SW"? is exactly the same question that should be asked of RL if we are going to boil the debate down to that simplicity. (not having a crack SainterK)...just making a point.

P66 says a similar thing in a different way when he says I will wait until until next year to make a judgement...well DERRRRR!...(now I'm having a crack but only at P66).

Well Derrr what ever that means why are you then telling us how good SW is now if its obvious we need to wait until next year. You are the one though who did say Rooy and BJ were cancers of the club.

hehe!...what a cracker...I always know you've got a weak argument when you pull out that hoary old chestnut.

[Con Gorozidis]

Garry Ayres is your perfect example of what Ross Lyon could become. Ross Lyon is lauded as the super coach but there are 5 coaches that are in the current system that are better than him based on the fact that they have won a flag since he become a senior AFL coach.

So to answer the earlier question by SainterK, "is anyone convinced either way on SW"? is exactly the same question that should be asked of RL if we are going to boil the debate down to that simplicity. (not having a crack SainterK)...just making a point.

P66 says a similar thing in a different way when he says I will wait until until next year to make a judgement...well DERRRRR!...(now I'm having a crack but only at P66).

Well Derrr what ever that means why are you then telling us how good SW is now if its obvious we need to wait until next year. You are the one though who did say Rooy and BJ were cancers of the club.

hehe!...what a cracker...I always know you've got a weak argument when you pull out that hoary old chestnut.

I think people are getting mixed up with Shane Watson now?

[fingers]

Is there any saints fans honestly convinced either way on Scott yet?

I have issues with much of what he does, but also like a lot of what he's done as well.

Too early to be decisive.

+1

[plugger66]

Garry Ayres is your perfect example of what Ross Lyon could become. Ross Lyon is lauded as the super coach but there are 5 coaches that are in the current system that are better than him based on the fact that they have won a flag since he become a senior AFL coach.

So to answer the earlier question by SainterK, "is anyone convinced either way on SW"? is exactly the same question that should be asked of RL if we are going to boil the debate down to that simplicity. (not having a crack SainterK)...just making a point.

P66 says a similar thing in a different way when he says I will wait until until next year to make a judgement...well DERRRRR!...(now I'm having a crack but only at P66).

Well Derrr what ever that means why are you then telling us how good SW is now if its obvious we need to wait until next year. You are the one though who did say Rooy and BJ were cancers of the club.

hehe!...what a cracker...I always know you've got a weak argument when you pull out that hoary old chestnut.

As opposed to say its obvious we need to wait until next year but then in the same breath tell us how good SW is going.

[joffaboy]

It ended in 2010.

2010.

It will be 2014 next time the players run out in the RWB.

Correct.

I dont know if Watters is the man to take us to the next flag. I dont know if he is out of his depth currently.

I dont know if the players are not happy.

What I do know is that it seems that every outside person who comes in, is at the Saints for a while and then critisises its santified "culture" is hounded and there are immediate calls for sacking them.

[stinger]

interesting thread....with a few un-notable exceptions...there are some very wise supporters on this forum...

[Harvey To Hayes]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

Do you really think older players not being happy makes the younger players also unhappy?

Yes?

Every workplace I've been at that's the case.

Impressionable.

You really have to learn to make the distinction between the dynamics in a footy club and the dynamics in a workplace (yes, even if that footy club is also a workplace). They are literally worlds apart, trust me...

[st_Trav_ofWA]

my take on it .... footy clubs are a lot like some offices they work in a area of comfort and routine once that changes then there is a settling in period .. some take to the change easily, some fight the change (and usually get moved on), others go with the change but resent the fact the change is happening and be against it until they get used to it ... we have seen this over and over again.... in our most recent history GT is loved by all the players (except Milne), GT gets the arse and we have a fall out (to the point Roo is quoted as looking at options away from st kilda), in comes Lyon word trickles out the players hate him his game plan makes no sence he shuns some guys from the team (Leigh Fisher Goose) eventually Lyon gets buy in we win games the players learn to love him , he walks ... in comes Scotty ...

Chris Pelchen has said when he got to St Kilda his first task was to sort out the SC mess , he mentions that the way the pay scale was set out at St Kilda we had 6 blokes who consumed over 40% of the cap yeah we kept players but we were over paying them to keep them ... his job was then to bring that down , that in its self would make for grumpy players - we also have the issue of rebuilding the list so in the tune guys who under the Ross Lyon rule were "safe" guys who were pretty much walk up starts are suddenly finding themselves playing more VFL finding their names pushed around at trade time and find their roles changing - again makes for grumpy players

in the end Scott was employed to do a job and that was to build the next st kilda premiership team , the club have a long term veiw to this they dont expect a quick climb they know that he and pelch are tasked with replacing once in a generation players- no easy task - to me everyone needs to lower the expectation and just give it time ....

do i think Scotty will coach us to a flag ? prob not history will say he is more likely to be the stepping stone to build the team that someone will take the next step with , but i dont think sacking him will do anything but distable the club and make us look like a joke of a club

[zebraman]

Which side of the alleged rift does Pelchen sit.

Last I heard the playing group didn't like Pelchen much ( which is OK , it makes it easier to live with hard decisions if the guy they work with daily is not directly to blame ).

In the St Kilda hierarchy setup , doesn't Watters report to Pelchen?..maybe that's part of the alleged problem

[Con Gorozidis]

Well said st trav
I think the issue is people have unrealistic expectations based on a very simplistic view of footy .
they see some familiar names that they got used to seeing up the top and wonder why with these same names we arent still at the top.
The next point of logic is 'it must be the coach' . Its quite child like.

If there is any criticism for Scott from me is he should have communicated very clearly and so it was easy to understand from day 1 that we were rebuilding and that it will take 3-4 years. He has over-estimated the fans and players ability to work it out for themselves. In reality he should have treated them like babies and gently but clearly lowered their expectations.