Finey on SEN

[maverick]

See that bothers me even more that he went and used such a public mouthpiece.
Why isn't SW well liked, what are some examples, is it just circumstances, is it the right approach, whose right?
How can anyone tell these things without understanding the facts.

If any of the senior players are unhappy with the way Steve Milne has been handled then I will be very annoyed for example.

The sooner the players realise that their behaviour affects revenue streams and ultimately our success the better.
We need strong admin more than good players right now.

I dont think it has anything to do with Milne. Just a personality clash with some guys. The funny thing is many on here have RL pegged as the guy who ran the show completely with no player imput and SW nearly 180 degrees the other way. i reckon those people are 180 degrees wrong.

Fair enough on Milne, good.
With RL, I always thought he engaged the senior players only and left the young and developing ones to others, hence the unapproachable thing.

Could it be the senior players are less involved than they were because their influence needs to be pegged bag and others brought on?

I do agree with you though, no need for a contract extension nor to sack him.....

[Con Gorozidis]

We've been living off 1966 for 47 years. And call 97 09 and 2010 successes.

Guess what ....since 1966 we've achieved sweet FA

Things need to change.

+ 1.
We all rub ourselves over 09 and 10.
Its ancient history.

[Dave McNamara]

- playing group is very unhappy with Scott. Main gripe is that he has multiple game-plans, and tries to switch between them too often within a quarter, let alone a game. This annoys the older players and confuses the younger ones. Older players therefore concerned for development of younger group.

Thanks for the post Darth. It's great to actually hear something tangible.

If that's the case, like Con, I'm actually pretty cool with it.

So it's not just gonna' be...
Plan A: Kick it sideways, kick it backwards, whatever... till you can kick it to Roo and his opponents.
Plan B: Make that 'tempo' sign... just kick it backwards.

Multiple game plans, changing even several times in the one quarter....?

As in, we can adapt what we are doing according to how the game is going, who the opposition are, how they are setting up...?

Nah... too radical... that'll never catch on.

The players had no clue about Lyons game.plan in the first two years. Now it's considered the best in the business. Maybe our players are slow learners.

Correct Con. Once they did cotton on...

I think it was worth the 'teething pains'.

And just think... multiple and inter-changeable game plans which can be implemented as required.

I'd once again be happy to wear another 'teething pains' phase to get this right. And this is the time, whilst we are rebuilding, so there's plenty of time for the guys to come to grips with it all.

And maybe it won't take so long?

I know it was only against the Puke's junior team, but it was still the Ro$$y game plan (that beat the Dawks in 2009), and I really liked how we refused to bomb it long when they flooded back, and instead switched the ball around till we eventually found a way through.

Also, their speed, and the run and spread was quite something to behold.

Anyone else notice these things?

[dragit]

We've been living off 1966 for 47 years. And call 97 09 and 2010 successes.

Guess what ....since 1966 we've achieved sweet FA

Things need to change.

+ 1.
We all rub ourselves over 09 and 10.
Its ancient history.

I'm still rubbing myself over the 2004 Ansett Cup… ohh yeah…

[fingers]

We've been living off 1966 for 47 years. And call 97 09 and 2010 successes.

Guess what ....since 1966 we've achieved sweet FA

Things need to change.

But will they change with the person in charge not being popular with the older guys and more importantly some younger guys? All i know is we shouldnt sack SW now and we also shouldnt give him extra time now. And I also know Finey has no more insight into the club than some on here. I may even know where he heard what he said this week and it hasnt come directly from players but through a third person so does it even carry to much weight? Who knows.

Absolutely.

As far as Finey goes....who the hell knows.

[MCG-Unit]

I understand it would be a terrible time to change coaches but for the life of me I cant see what people or the club saw in Watters to give him the job........He has shown absolutely zero in his match day coaching, he has poor communication with the team and other persons at the club...... Apparently the junior development for which he is heralded for is the work of other coaches not himself.

What has he done that deserves the club to persist with him after next year? I don't think he should be sacked now but give him the remainder of his current contract period to prove himself and in that time find a suitable replacement.

Regarding your bolded part, an asst coach from another club, told me that Watters (as Defense coach) inherited the defensive structure/game plan at Coll, and really didn't have to do much develop it. The asst coach was not slamming Watters - it was someone I know and was in response to me asking what he thought of Watters appointment pre-season 2 years ago....
Now that's not to say he can't coach or develop youth or game plans, just interesting to hear.

Not buying into the sacking Watters push, but why the need to extend his contract now - why not wait until next year?

With Alan Richardson, I think he was in the final 3-4 applicants for the Saints job won by Watters. One of best assistant coaches out there IMO.

Darth Vader, you should post more often.

[Con Gorozidis]

Out of interest - for those who want to sack the coach - how do you rate/rank our current list compared with the other 17 sides and give reasons for your ranking.

[WinnersOnly]

Some comments from a person who was very highly placed at the club until recently but is no longer there, but still has involvement with many of the players:
- playing group is very unhappy with Scott. Main gripe is that he has multiple game-plans, and tries to switch between them too often within a quarter, let alone a game. This annoys the older players and confuses the younger ones. Older players therefore concernced for development of younger group.
- Main factor in Scott's appointment was media skills. Club was getting feedback from members and sponsors that the Ross-era (ie the bubble) was too insular and shut key stakeholders out. Led to club wanting a more open coach.
- At time of appointment, Scott's view was that rebuild was not required and we could challenge for top-four again in short-term - ie underestimated extent of decline post 2010 and didn't address it initially.
Also made scathing comments about CEO, but not relevant here.

Main concern for me is the development of the younger players - we all know that, assuming it takes a long while to get good again, Scott won't be around as coach to get the benefit of that because clubs are too impatient. Therefore his prime responsibility in that time is to develop the kids - ie good habits (training, diet, behaviour etc) and learning what to do on field (positioning, structures, drills etc). I worry if this is not getting done properly because younger group being confused. The fact is, like any rookie coach, Scott is getting his on the job training at our expense. Hopefully he gets good quickly enough to help rather than hinder our young players.

Darth this basically confirms what Finey was saying - there is obviously some issues between Watters and Nettlefold which spells disaster. If the players are unsure of the multiple game plans and unhappy with him well he has failed as a coach. Where there is smoke there is fire and I don't believe Watters is as well received as people would like to think he is. I think the club were sold on his media persona and forgot about the other qualities they need as a senior AFL coach, which is now coming back to bite them!

[plugger66]

Out of interest - for those who want to sack the coach - how do you rate/rank our current list compared with the other 17 sides and give reasons for your ranking.

Probably about 12th to 14th during the year. Still had many AA who are obviously getting older and to balance that out young players who i think we may be overating and some good to very good mid aged players.

[Con Gorozidis]

Out of interest - for those who want to sack the coach - how do you rate/rank our current list compared with the other 17 sides and give reasons for your ranking.

Probably about 12th to 14th during the year. Still had many AA who are obviously getting older and to balance that out young players who i think we may be overating and some good to very good mid aged players.

Pluggs I didnt think you were in the sack the coach brigade? I thought you were in the 'chill out and wait and see brigade'.

Who are our good to very good mid aged players? Apart from Jack, Armo and Gears? That makes 3. Most clubs have 8-10 in that category.

Did you go to the Monders on the weekend?

[spert]

Well there's 1966 and that's it..all our coaches since Jeans couldn't pull off a premiership, and I for one couldn't give stuff about the coulda-been scenarios of 2009-2010, they were grand final failures as far as the club's history goes and it doesn't matter who the coach was. From the start of the 2014 season, the cycle starts again for us and all the other clubs..bugger rebuilding excuses or whatever else is a convenient reason for failure. If Watters doesn't get us into the finals the after three years he should be moved on!

[plugger66]

Out of interest - for those who want to sack the coach - how do you rate/rank our current list compared with the other 17 sides and give reasons for your ranking.

Probably about 12th to 14th during the year. Still had many AA who are obviously getting older and to balance that out young players who i think we may be overating and some good to very good mid aged players.

Pluggs I didnt think you were in the sack the coach brigade? I thought you were in the 'chill out and wait and see brigade'.

Who are our good to very good mid aged players? Apart from Jack, Armo and Gears? That makes 3. Most clubs have 8-10 in that category.

Did you go to the Monders on the weekend?

Who said i wanted SW sacked. Never said that ever. We also have Gilbert and ben in that catagory. Yes i went to the Monders. Not good enough and by a fair margin.

[Con Gorozidis]

Did you go to the Monders on the weekend?

Who said i wanted SW sacked. Never said that ever. We also have Gilbert and ben in that catagory. Yes i went to the Monders. Not good enough and by a fair margin.[/quote]

Yeah I know you didn't say that.
I was just interested in hearing from people that ARE in the sack the coach brigade how they rate the list.
Fair enough on Gilbo and Macca and we didnt get as much from this year as wed anticipated.
I think my old man was at the Monders.

[Con Gorozidis]

Well there's 1966 and that's it..all our coaches since Jeans couldn't pull off a premiership, and I for one couldn't give stuff about the coulda-been scenarios of 2009-2010, they were grand final failures as far as the club's history goes and it doesn't matter who the coach was. From the start of the 2014 season, the cycle starts again for us and all the other clubs..bugger rebuilding excuses or whatever else is a convenient reason for failure. If Watters doesn't get us into the finals the after three years he should be moved on!

Agree on 99.9% of that.

So finals in 2014 or 2015? Cos we are no chance in 2014. (We definitely should have 100% started the rebuild and tanked in 2012 imho).

[stinger]

Where there's smoke there's fire

And possibly a dwarf

pure gold mate...

[stinger]

https://soundcloud.com/sen1116/fineys-t ... tt-watters

interesting...

[SainterK]

I don't mean this harshly, but could they be having daddy issues since Ross left?

[stinger]

Is there any saints fans honestly convinced either way on Scott yet?

I have issues with much of what he does, but also like a lot of what he's done as well.

Too early to be decisive.

+1

[Cairnsman]

Pluggs I didnt think you were in the sack the coach brigade? I thought you were in the 'chill out and wait and see brigade'.

Who are our good to very good mid aged players? Apart from Jack, Armo and Gears? That makes 3. Most clubs have 8-10 in that category.

Did you go to the Monders on the weekend?

Who said i wanted SW sacked. Never said that ever. We also have Gilbert and ben in that catagory. Yes i went to the Monders. Not good enough and by a fair margin.

Of coarse you didn't say it but you are hiding behind snide back biting remarks that you have been seeding on here fairly consistently ever since your third cousin heard from an ex player from the Tony Jewell era that said something to your Dads neighbour regarding there being some unhappy players.

[plugger66]

Who said i wanted SW sacked. Never said that ever. We also have Gilbert and ben in that catagory. Yes i went to the Monders. Not good enough and by a fair margin.

Of coarse you didn't say it but you are hiding behind snide back biting remarks that you have been seeding on here fairly consistently ever since your third cousin heard from an ex player from the Tony Jewell era that said something to your Dads neighbour.

That have basically been found to be corrrect.

[joffaboy]

Just listened to Finey's rant.

Can I ask, what evidence he gave apart from not wanting to get Dustin Martin?

He quotes Geelong's Scott like we were in the same position as Geelong when Watters was appointed? Finey, have a look at Geelongs list and where they currently are and where the Saints list was and is.

Seems like Fine is accepting two successive Grand Finals losses as some sort of success?

Unless Mark Fine comes out with concrete proof, I am not sold on his rant.

Is he really saying every other coach has had everyone on board? There were more than one senior player who loathed Thomas, and accusations he wanted to run everythign.

Lyon went through assistant coaches like a dose of the salts. Dont tell me he was well loved.

But what did they have in common? Winning teams.

Would be interesting to hear some actual fact that Watters is NOT developing the young players. Not saying this is untrue, but everythign is unsubstantiated allegations from no source, and seemingly because Hinkley said Richardson is a good development coach.

Petty dissapointed, especially the "evidence" Watters didn't want Martin. FFS. We bang schoolgirls, get charged with rape, get nude photos published on the interwebs, set dwarfs of fire and Watters doesn't want a complete and utter d**khead at the club.

Jesus Christ.

[SainterK]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

[Kickit]

Watters was a unanimous decision by the selection committee, so If we need to sack Watters we also need to sack the people who selected the selection Committee.

If there is a rift between the management and Watters, where does Pelchen fit in?

[Life Long Saint]

https://soundcloud.com/sen1116/fineys-t ... tt-watters

interesting...

If by interesting you mean that's four and-a-half minutes of my life I'll never get back, then I agree.

[plugger66]

What's more concerning JB...

Is that players are obviously showing discontent, resentment, whinging, and showing kids that the tail wags the dog.

If Scott is crap, that will be evident in time.

For now, quit complaining, work hard, buy in...and our younger group will learn that anything else gets you nowhere.

Do you really think older players not being happy makes the younger players also unhappy?