Giants move ON Sam Fisher

[PJ]

Heard Chad Cornes in a radio interview comment on how they would use Fisher. The GWS coaching staff have clearly had positive discussions about acquiring him.

[gringo]

Why would anyone want Bruce for Fisher when we could get him anyway as he could walk? I just don't get it. Fisher is probably our most important player when he's going. We either have short memories or are just not very smart. If Bains and Elshaugh did that deal they should be sacked on the spot. Let's give them Roo and Dal as well in case they don't want him to walk quick enough. If they don't smile in the negotiations see if they want Jack Steven and Montagna. This guy is a fringe player who has played a handful of games and really offers about the same as Joel Tippett who would be free.

[PJ]

We don't know what the deal/offer is for Fisher. It may not even involve Bruce. It's all just speculation. I'd be eyeing that number 9 or 10 draft pick they have.

[bergholt]

We don't know what the deal/offer is for Fisher. It may not even involve Bruce. It's all just speculation. I'd be eyeing that number 9 or 10 draft pick they have.

Fisher's not worth pick 9. The best we could hope for is Fisher and 20 for 9, but even that feels unlikely. It'd be a great deal for us though.

[PJ]

Correct it may end up being bundled into a few exchanges but in all seriousness we don't need draft picks below 20 for champions of the club that still have playing value. That's just poor speculation that will rob us of quality and a future.

[saintsRrising]

. Fisher is probably our most important player when he's going. We either have short memories or are just not very smart. If Bains and Elshaugh did that deal they should be sacked on the spot. .

We all know that he is is good. Very good, and indeed that is why he has trade currency.

However Fisher is:

CONS:
* over 31
* the last two seasons has played only 9 & 15 games
* is rumoured to ave some "colourful" issues that may distract other players off-field ( we do not know, but if true the club will)

PROS:
* GWS have lots of young stars....however their lack of good older players is seriously hurting their chances to ever reap that benefit
* GWS have a hard task to win a fan-base. After a dreadful season they need to start gaining some momentum. Getting Buddy & Fish would boost their ability to attract crowds and onfield it will make them a lot more competitive.
* Fisher & SOS get on very well = GWS would be confident of extracting max value from him.

ADD:
* Saints are most unlikely to be a premiership threat in 2014/15
* We are clearly rebuilding
* We desperately need a tall key defender or two
* Bruce is such a player, with the potential to play many years.
* GWS will not value 3rd & 4th round picks that much, but such picks can be great for the saints to help fast track our rebuild. This may enable such picks to be thrown in as sweeteners for us = "steak knives"

What this all adds up to is an arbitrage opportunity for the Saints, where we can extract "overs' for Fisher, but where both GWS and the Saints will be happy with the deal.

That is why Pelchen is looking at the deal.

Let's not kid ourselves. Right here and now we are way off the pace, and are in danger of falling even further behind unless we are very very clever with our picks and then develop them well. This deal provides an opportunity for us to take a step up for our future

Our future is currently in Pelchen's hands. He may fail, or he may succeed. But status quo is not an attractive option. Let's have a crack at getting better.

[gringo]

. Fisher is probably our most important player when he's going. We either have short memories or are just not very smart. If Bains and Elshaugh did that deal they should be sacked on the spot. .

We all know that he is is good. Very good, and indeed that is why he has trade currency.

However Fisher is:

CONS:
* over 31
* the last two seasons has played only 9 & 15 games
* is rumoured to ave some "colourful" issues that may distract other players off-field ( we do not know, but if true the club will)

PROS:
* GWS have lots of young stars....however their lack of good older players is seriously hurting their chances to ever reap that benefit
* GWS have a hard task to win a fan-base. After a dreadful season they need to start gaining some momentum. Getting Buddy & Fish would boost their ability to attract crowds and onfield it will make them a lot more competitive.
* Fisher & SOS get on very well = GWS would be confident of extracting max value from him.

ADD:
* Saints are most unlikely to be a premiership threat in 2014/15
* We are clearly rebuilding
* We desperately need a tall key defender or two
* Bruce is such a player, with the potential to play many years.
* GWS will not value 3rd & 4th round picks that much, but such picks can be great for the saints to help fast track our rebuild. This may enable such picks to be thrown in as sweeteners for us = "steak knives"

What this all adds up to is an arbitrage opportunity for the Saints, where we can extract "overs' for Fisher, but where both GWS and the Saints will be happy with the deal.

That is why Pelchen is looking at the deal.

Let's not kid ourselves. Right here and now we are way off the pace, and are in danger of falling even further behind unless we are very very clever with our picks and then develop them well. This deal provides an opportunity for us to take a step up for our future

Our future is currently in Pelchen's hands. He may fail, or he may succeed. But status quo is not an attractive option. Let's have a crack at getting better.

I have no problem with swapping him for pick 9 or even pick 20 and Fisher for 9 but if we were to trade him in a direct swap which people are saying in this thread we would probably be certifiably retarded.

[skeptic]

. Fisher is probably our most important player when he's going. We either have short memories or are just not very smart. If Bains and Elshaugh did that deal they should be sacked on the spot. .

We all know that he is is good. Very good, and indeed that is why he has trade currency.

However Fisher is:

CONS:
* over 31
* the last two seasons has played only 9 & 15 games
* is rumoured to ave some "colourful" issues that may distract other players off-field ( we do not know, but if true the club will)

* Even in his prime he wasn't really a KPP

His ideal position is as a HBF quarterback type role. Something we have an abundance of.

[Royston]

. Fisher is probably our most important player when he's going. We either have short memories or are just not very smart. If Bains and Elshaugh did that deal they should be sacked on the spot. .

We all know that he is is good. Very good, and indeed that is why he has trade currency.

However Fisher is:

CONS:
* over 31
* the last two seasons has played only 9 & 15 games
* is rumoured to ave some "colourful" issues that may distract other players off-field ( we do not know, but if true the club will)

* Even in his prime he wasn't really a KPP

His ideal position is as a HBF quarterback type role. Something we have an abundance of.

Game has changed and we also have a different game plan with Watters compared to the Lyon years.
Fisher & Goddard benefitted by Ross having them as the extra or the loose man, using their smarts, kicking ability and
run to exit the ball out of the defence.....we have moved on from this style/tactic.
With his injuries, age (not getting quicker, if anything will be slower) and size (not KP) the time may be right to move
him on IF the deal is in our favour....

As mentioned above we have others who can play that role who are younger and have greater speed, although maybe not as strong overhead.

[Kickit]

I'd be happy if we could trade Fisher + 3rd round pick for pick 19.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree game has changed.
No need for fisher gwilt dempster and Gilbert. We need two of those guys only.
You need two proper talls that can punch in marking contests and then crumbing rebounders. The idea of the mid sized all rounder that was once in vogue now isn't. Now ur either a tall or a short with only a couple of mid sized all rounders.

[Spinner]

Fisher has been out with injury but how quickly people forget his talent and ability.

Yes over 30 - but talk of 'we don't need him' just shows how quickly people forget what's to in front of their eyes daily.

[SainterK]

Agree with that...

However IF he is influencing young guys, I'm happy with him potentially going.

[busso mick]

Fisher has been out with injury but how quickly people forget his talent and ability.

Yes over 30 - but talk of 'we don't need him' just shows how quickly people forget what's to in front of their eyes daily.

He won 2 B&F's when we were very strong, so he has been a gun for us. He was lame for most of last year which might cloud some judgement. The fact he that he was a gun is the reason that he does have some value to other teams, what is quite depressing is a lot of our team is valueless at the moment in terms of tradeability.

[Kickit]

I agree game has changed.
No need for fisher gwilt dempster and Gilbert. We need two of those guys only.
You need two proper talls that can punch in marking contests and then crumbing rebounders. The idea of the mid sized all rounder that was once in vogue now isn't. Now ur either a tall or a short with only a couple of mid sized all rounders.

I don't agree with that.
The forward crush has ensured that no-one is running out of the backline like they used to. ( Just have a look at the way dream team points for defenders are trending ).
Fisher and Gilbert are probably our best mark's in the backline, with Fisher's kicking much better.
All of Gwilt, Fisher, and Gilbert are reasonably good at breaking out of the forward line.

[Con Gorozidis]

I agree game has changed.
No need for fisher gwilt dempster and Gilbert. We need two of those guys only.
You need two proper talls that can punch in marking contests and then crumbing rebounders. The idea of the mid sized all rounder that was once in vogue now isn't. Now ur either a tall or a short with only a couple of mid sized all rounders.

I don't agree with that.
The forward crush has ensured that no-one is running out of the backline like they used to. ( Just have a look at the way dream team points for defenders are trending ).
Fisher and Gilbert are probably our best mark's in the backline, with Fisher's kicking much better.
All of Gwilt, Fisher, and Gilbert are reasonably good at breaking out of the forward line.

I think Dempster is easily our best contested mark in defence. Gwilt was good at breaking out of the fwd line 3 years ago - ill give you that.
If you watch the swans, hawks, freo - they often punch the ball 20 metres from marking contests and have crumbers there ready to run it out - the first possession is almost always a handball backwards.
So what youre saying is our defence is ok as it stands because we can only have 6 blokes down there and youve just told me 4 of them are guns.

[St Chris]

Need to involve Chips in a trade for Adams and Bruce.

Perhaps Chips and 2nd rounder?? I think that would be a win for us, given Fisher's body issues in the last couple of years.

[Kickit]

I don't agree with that.
The forward crush has ensured that no-one is running out of the backline like they used to. ( Just have a look at the way dream team points for defenders are trending ).
Fisher and Gilbert are probably our best mark's in the backline, with Fisher's kicking much better.
All of Gwilt, Fisher, and Gilbert are reasonably good at breaking out of the forward line.

I think Dempster is easily our best contested mark in defence. Gwilt was good at breaking out of the fwd line 3 years ago - ill give you that.
If you watch the swans, hawks, freo - they often punch the ball 20 metres from marking contests and have crumbers there ready to run it out - the first possession is almost always a handball backwards.
So what youre saying is our defence is ok as it stands because we can only have 6 blokes down there and youve just told me 4 of them are guns.

No I agree we can trade someone out, Roberton especially makes that possible.
We could play:
Dempster , Full Back, Roberton
Gwilt , Fisher , Geary
Gilbert in the midfield. Or Dempster could tag a mid. ( both Dempster and Gilbert can play pretty small as required ).

But yeah its a bit much.
I'd hold onto Simpkin for depth. ( and I think he'll improve as he gets older ).

If we can get something for Fisher its better than holding onto him for the hell of it for a couple of years.
Gilbert could be worth a bit as well.

Gwilt still seems to be able to shrug off tackles and get a kick away, but his kicks don't seem as damaging since his knee.

[dragit]

Dempster , Full Back, Roberton
Gwilt , Fisher , Geary

That's the thing, we have to get games into Wright, Webster, Markworth, Siposs, Dunell etc next year… so in reality we probably only need 3 or 4 of Fisher/Dempster/Gwilt/Ray/Gilbert/Simpkin… I think Roberton & Geary are locks from an age/quality perspective. Gwilt & Ray are probably not worth anything in a trade… unless a team like GWS were interested in their experience.

[WinnersOnly]

You can judge people by the quality of their friends and if Armo and Fisher are both friends with Dustin Martin it says a lot about their character! The club must have reservations about both hence I would have no difficulties in getting rid of (trading) both players. The Saints must enforce the 'no d**khead policy' to the letter and if it means cutting ties with current players then so be it...

[gringo]

I love how a bit of bad publicity and all of a sudden our champions are a write off. He might be the occasional bad boy and his reputation is over blown. Fisher is one of the best of his era and should get more respect. He started late and should go until he is mid 30s. GWS luckily understand how good he is unlike some of our short memory fans.

[Con Gorozidis]

You can judge people by the quality of their friends and if Armo and Fisher are both friends with Dustin Martin it says a lot about their character! The club must have reservations about both hence I would have no difficulties in getting rid of (trading) both players. The Saints must enforce the 'no d**khead policy' to the letter and if it means cutting ties with current players then so be it...

I take all this with a grain of salt or ten.

A team of choirboys never won a a flag last time I looked.

I think Id need to know some more details about what Dusty really gets up to before making a decision.

But I think in general we should be building a squad from the ground up. Short cuts dont work.

[Devilhead]

Bye Bye Fish - Hello Future.

Fish is 31yo - has only played a handful of games in the last 2 years due to injury - has had off field issues in the last 2 years - won't be around for our next Premiership tilt

Better to get something for him now than nothing next year when he misses half the season ..... reckon his body is shot and his head just isn't right to recapture his glory days ----- just an opinion but I reckon it is not that far from the truth.

Thanks Fish for the memories but we need to move forward and secure our future.

[dragit]

You can judge people by the quality of their friends and if Armo and Fisher are both friends with Dustin Martin it says a lot about their character! The club must have reservations about both hence I would have no difficulties in getting rid of (trading) both players. The Saints must enforce the 'no d**khead policy' to the letter and if it means cutting ties with current players then so be it...

I take all this with a grain of salt or ten.

A team of choirboys never won a a flag last time I looked.

I think Id need to know some more details about what Dusty really gets up to before making a decision.

But I think in general we should be building a squad from the ground up. Short cuts dont work.

Exactly - "No dickheads" in a football club is an oxymoron.

[Con Gorozidis]

Bye Bye Fish - Hello Future.

Fish is 31yo - has only played a handful of games in the last 2 years due to injury - has had off field issues in the last 2 years - won't be around for our next Premiership tilt

Better to get something for him now than nothing next year when he misses half the season ..... reckon his body is shot and his head just isn't right to recapture his glory days ----- just an opinion but I reckon it is not that far from the truth.

Thanks Fish for the memories but we need to move forward and secure our future.

+1
Although some people think we are going to flick a switch, turn back the clock - all jump in a time machine and Fisher is going to dominate and him, Dempster and Gwilt and going to be a defensive force.

Its very frustrating. 2009/10 is all over red rover! We need to build a new defensive unit from the ground up starting with Geary, Roberton and Webster.