I love Ross Lyon

[Johnny Member]

Think he made significant mistakes at the Saints that may well have cost us at least I've flag.

But, he also was the reason we came so close.

He left, in my opinion, at the right time.


But right now, I love him as a coach. Wouldn't be any good for us now, but is fantastic for Freo.


I actually really like him.



Anyway, just wanted to share that.

[SainterK]

Hearing him talk about Kosi on game day was the warmest I'd felt towards him for awhile.

Then he had to emulate Malthouse in a presser and annoy me again.

[mohannair]

He deserves a flag & will get it sooner than latter.

[dragit]

you've changed rog.

[Johnny Member]

Not sure he 'deserves' anything. The concept of people 'deserving' flags is fantasy. It's actually the reason they're so important and elusive - whether you deserve it or not, whether you earn it or not, whether everyone wants you to get one or not - is utterly irrelevant! And that's a good thing. That's what makes them what they are.

Anyway, I don't wish him well or anything. I just think I really like him. Funnily enough, probably more than I did when he was our coach!

[Harvey To Hayes]

Had no team success whatsoever as a player - hardly even tasted finals, in his AFL career at any rate - and seems hellbent on rectifying this as a coach, with scant regard for any others involved in his quest (ie St Kilda FC, evidenced by the weaselly way he exited our club via a legal loophole despite good faith negotiations with his manager being already completed more than a year before his contract expired, and the myriad flaws he left riddling our list on his departure).

I hope that Freo makes the GF, it's a draw, then the replay is a draw as well, then they lose GF3 after a dodgy free kick on the siren and a 50m penalty from the resultant ire hand their opponent (whoever) an undeserved one point victory.

Screw Ross Lyon.

[dragit]

Not sure he 'deserves' anything. The concept of people 'deserving' flags is fantasy. It's actually the reason they're so important and elusive - whether you deserve it or not, whether you earn it or not, whether everyone wants you to get one or not - is utterly irrelevant! And that's a good thing. That's what makes them what they are.

Anyway, I don't wish him well or anything. I just think I really like him. Funnily enough, probably more than I did when he was our coach!

Don't you wish well for people you like?

[whiskers3614]

Can we go at least one day without mentioning that person?
He's not Fred Hollows or Mother Theresa, he's just a highly paid performer.

[Johnny Member]

Generally yes, but in footy - no.

[Megamaguire]

With Hawks; Swans and Cats still postering for another flag i'll be hoping
the heave hos win a premiership 4 Freeo.

G O S A I N T S !

[Kickit]

I don't begrudge the way he left the club. Given that he wanted to leave, he probably chose the best means.
Announce it prior to finals - sorry that would have been crazy and destructive.
I don't think its fair to assume that coaches must coach until sacked.

However I often consider a measure of one's performance can be , "did you leave your organisation in better nick than you got it ". Lyon did not.
I am assuming that he had some measure of control over the drafting. ( maybe it was someone else's fault ), and his development of young players was not good enough. Others ( Collingwood ) were able to be competitive AND develop young players.

[Moods]

I don't begrudge the way he left the club. Given that he wanted to leave, he probably chose the best means.
Announce it prior to finals - sorry that would have been crazy and destructive.
I don't think its fair to assume that coaches must coach until sacked.

However I often consider a measure of one's performance can be , "did you leave your organisation in better nick than you got it ". Lyon did not.
I am assuming that he had some measure of control over the drafting. ( maybe it was someone else's fault ), and his development of young players was not good enough. Others ( Collingwood ) were able to be competitive AND develop young players.

What coach gets sacked and it can be said that they have left the organisation better than when they arrived? That's why they get the boot isn't it? I would argue that in certain terms he definitely left us in better shape.

Yes our development/recruitment was poor during his era - but gee whiz ppl have short memories. Like the fact he took us to two GF's and gave us every chance of winning them. I mean in the history of the club we had only played in 6 and won one in over 100 years. BUT he's still a dud coach. Absolutely laughable this notion that we had some sort of super list just waiting for ANY coach to take the reins and deliver us some sort of golden era of flags. Yes we had some superstars on our list - but also plenty of (for want of a better term) GOPS. He converted Dawson from a nobody into a somebody - he recruited Schneider and Dempster and King and Gardiner for pretty much nothing. He got Farren Ray, who played his best footy of his career. He was the only coach to get anything out of McQualter. We had players like Peake and Eddy in the team as well, which in the final analysis probably cost us the flag. neither team we played off against had anything like these type of players (peake, Eddy, McQualter)

Ppl can hate the way he left all they like, but the more ppl claim he failed at the saints, the more they look silly. AFAIC we had no business playing off for the flags in 09 or 10. People forget that most wrote us off after 2008 after we were thrashed by the top two teams in the finals that year (08)

[dragit]

Well put Moods…

[Greg T]

I don't begrudge the way he left the club. Given that he wanted to leave, he probably chose the best means.
Announce it prior to finals - sorry that would have been crazy and destructive.
I don't think its fair to assume that coaches must coach until sacked.

However I often consider a measure of one's performance can be , "did you leave your organisation in better nick than you got it ". Lyon did not.
I am assuming that he had some measure of control over the drafting. ( maybe it was someone else's fault ), and his development of young players was not good enough. Others ( Collingwood ) were able to be competitive AND develop young players.

What coach gets sacked and it can be said that they have left the organisation better than when they arrived? That's why they get the boot isn't it? I would argue that in certain terms he definitely left us in better shape.

Yes our development/recruitment was poor during his era - but gee whiz ppl have short memories. Like the fact he took us to two GF's and gave us every chance of winning them. I mean in the history of the club we had only played in 6 and won one in over 100 years. BUT he's still a dud coach. Absolutely laughable this notion that we had some sort of super list just waiting for ANY coach to take the reins and deliver us some sort of golden era of flags. Yes we had some superstars on our list - but also plenty of (for want of a better term) GOPS. He converted Dawson from a nobody into a somebody - he recruited Schneider and Dempster and King and Gardiner for pretty much nothing. He got Farren Ray, who played his best footy of his career. He was the only coach to get anything out of McQualter. We had players like Peake and Eddy in the team as well, which in the final analysis probably cost us the flag. neither team we played off against had anything like these type of players (peake, Eddy, McQualter)

Ppl can hate the way he left all they like, but the more ppl claim he failed at the saints, the more they look silly. AFAIC we had no business playing off for the flags in 09 or 10. People forget that most wrote us off after 2008 after we were thrashed by the top two teams in the finals that year (08)

Fantastic, well said .
Credit where credits due.

[plugger66]

Why the hell would any Saints supporter love RL? Nearly as confusing as people hating him.

[Megamaguire]

Moods i think your argument makes a lot of sense. Like many i felt the frustration in learning that St.Kilda really didn't have what both the cats n pies had a serious investment in youth development programs. Amazing that St.Kilda played themselves into a position which with a bit of good fortune (a favorable bounce and at least one umpire who noticed that Geelong had been given 5 extra points which they didn't earn to help them along the way to nudging out St.Kilda).

I still think this was more the fault of the club than the coach. The club should have been able to get their goal across to the coach reg building and investing in a geelong and pies development model that was edging them closer and closer towards 'sustained' development and success.

I always liked Lyon and still believe the club let him slip through their fingers due to 2nd. rate strategies that they let themselves get caught up in.
Ilike the way Watters is going about things and now we are seeing the inclusion of younger players who will need some time to adjust to afl footy.
Lyon knew how to mould a team and get them into a finals position ( I mean top 4) and win their first game positioning them beautifully with one game to go to reach the grand final. What moods said about some of the ordinary players he developed cannot be simply dismissed or taken for granted. Freeo beating geelong at geewrong makes my point better.

Youth Development should have been a major focus of the club administration that could have been clearly and consistently worked at WITHOUT having to alienate the coach. We can always do better and i firmly believe the club could have done better in this regard.

G O S A I N T S!

[Kickit]

I don't begrudge the way he left the club. Given that he wanted to leave, he probably chose the best means.
Announce it prior to finals - sorry that would have been crazy and destructive.
I don't think its fair to assume that coaches must coach until sacked.

However I often consider a measure of one's performance can be , "did you leave your organisation in better nick than you got it ". Lyon did not.
I am assuming that he had some measure of control over the drafting. ( maybe it was someone else's fault ), and his development of young players was not good enough. Others ( Collingwood ) were able to be competitive AND develop young players.

What coach gets sacked and it can be said that they have left the organisation better than when they arrived? That's why they get the boot isn't it? I would argue that in certain terms he definitely left us in better shape.

Yes our development/recruitment was poor during his era - but gee whiz ppl have short memories. Like the fact he took us to two GF's and gave us every chance of winning them. I mean in the history of the club we had only played in 6 and won one in over 100 years. BUT he's still a dud coach. Absolutely laughable this notion that we had some sort of super list just waiting for ANY coach to take the reins and deliver us some sort of golden era of flags. Yes we had some superstars on our list - but also plenty of (for want of a better term) GOPS. He converted Dawson from a nobody into a somebody - he recruited Schneider and Dempster and King and Gardiner for pretty much nothing. He got Farren Ray, who played his best footy of his career. He was the only coach to get anything out of McQualter. We had players like Peake and Eddy in the team as well, which in the final analysis probably cost us the flag. neither team we played off against had anything like these type of players (peake, Eddy, McQualter)

Ppl can hate the way he left all they like, but the more ppl claim he failed at the saints, the more they look silly. AFAIC we had no business playing off for the flags in 09 or 10. People forget that most wrote us off after 2008 after we were thrashed by the top two teams in the finals that year (08)

If your company got a new CEO , and he didn't invest anything in the company, but he pushed the staff and their unions to maximise output like never before, got the share price and the profit through the roof, and then bailed out before the equipment broke down and the staff went on strike. What would you be saying about him?

[samoht]

If your company got a new CEO , and he didn't invest anything in the company, but he pushed the staff and their unions to maximise output like never before, got the share price and the profit through the roof, and then bailed out before the equipment broke down and the staff went on strike. What would you be saying about him?

Well said.

I've noticed a pattern on this forum:
As soon as someone leaves our club (say Tom Lynch, RL, whoever) they're suddenly seen as champions and woe is us for not realising it and how did we let them go etc..

The fact is (and I'll say it again) -
SW in his first year, in 2012, without Dawson and with Gwilt and Fisher injured at various stages, so with an unsettled backline, not only equalled RL's 12 wins in 2011 but he managed to arrest our rapid decline (down from 20 wins to 15 wins to 12 wins in successive years) - and we had a percentage of 123% in 2012 + we could have won another 3 close games, could have easily finished up with 15 wins!!

So how good was RL, I ask myself?

[saint75]

Hearing him talk about Kosi on game day was the warmest I'd felt towards him for awhile.

Then he had to emulate Malthouse in a presser and annoy me again.

Agree with most of what you said, but I loved his reaction to the journo in the presser. Backed his player in 100%. Sick of hearing the old 'I didn't see the footage so i can't comment' line. He saw it and backed Dawson. Thought it was fantastic. Malthouse is just plain rude and arrogant 99% of the time with no reason or cause for it. In my opinion (which is exactly that, an opinion), you cannot compare them.

Was secretly hoping Dawson would miss the rest of the finals as I want Freo to win the flag, but would hate to see Dawson with a premiership medal.

[plugger66]

If your company got a new CEO , and he didn't invest anything in the company, but he pushed the staff and their unions to maximise output like never before, got the share price and the profit through the roof, and then bailed out before the equipment broke down and the staff went on strike. What would you be saying about him?

Well said.

I've noticed a pattern on this forum:
As soon as someone leaves our club (say Tom Lynch, RL, whoever) they're suddenly seen as champions and woe is us for not realising it and how did we let them go etc..

The fact is (and I'll say it again) -
SW in his first year, in 2012, without Dawson and with Gwilt and Fisher injured at various stages, so with an unsettled backline, not only equalled RL's 12 wins in 2011 but he managed to arrest our rapid decline (down from 20 wins to 15 wins to 12 wins in successive years) - and we had a percentage of 123% in 2012 + we could have won another 3 close games, could have easily finished up with 15 wins!!

So how good was RL, I ask myself?

So RL ans SW are as good as each other because of the performance of 2 seasons. Chris Scott was better than MT because he won a flag in his first season. If footy was that simple.

[Con Gorozidis]

Why the hell would any Saints supporter love RL? Nearly as confusing as people hating him.

+1
I dont love him - I don't hate him.
Hes just another opposition coach.
Hes got a good list and is doing a godo job
He had a good list at the Saints and did a good job after a few years.
Its all ancient history to me and last time I checked the records it said 1 flag - 1966.

[dragit]

Plugger - 123% it's that simple

Sure we missed the finals, but 123% that's all you need to know.

[samoht]

So RL ans SW are as good as each other because of the performance of 2 seasons. Chris Scott was better than MT because he won a flag in his first season. If footy was that simple.

Why not make the comparison -
it's the same list which was in decline with a weakened backline (minus Dawson, an injured Fisher and Gwilt out with the knee injury etc..) etc.. - yet despite all this, SW managed to deliver and stop the decline.

so SW => RL (equal to or greater than).

I'd sooner draw that conclusion than have regrets over RL - who wasn't delivering.

[plugger66]

So RL ans SW are as good as each other because of the performance of 2 seasons. Chris Scott was better than MT because he won a flag in his first season. If footy was that simple.

Why not make the comparison -
it's the same list which was in decline with a weakened backline (minus Dawson, an injured Fisher and Gwilt out with the knee injury etc..) etc.. - yet despite all this, SW managed to deliver and stop the decline.

so SW => RL (equal to or greater than).

Yep and the footy media who rate RL top 2 or 3 coaches in the AFL are wrong then. SW better than RL. Laughable. Will he be better, who knows.

[samoht]

Yeah, the media = Roos etc..

RL could not deliver - we were in decline!