Ross Lyon will win the flag 2013

[samoht]

That's debatable, dragit.

Not really, it's clear that you are so bitter & twisted that you can't accept that Ross is a good coach.

RL is a reasonable coach given a good team.

How many wins did RL have in his final year with us - and how many wins did Watters have in his first year with us, despite us losing Dawson and with an injury racked defence?

I'm happy with Watters, that's all - call that twisted and bitter if you like.

[stinger]

i hope the hawks smash the absolute shite out of them on gf day

RL has the stronger player list - it remains to be seen whether that will be enough against a better coached team in Hawthorn.

Strongest list? rubbish.

Hawthorn & Geelong have stronger lists available, comfortably.

have to agree with you there...freo are a good even side ...but no champion players..imho....

[dragit]

That's debatable, dragit.

Not really, it's clear that you are so bitter & twisted that you can't accept that Ross is a good coach.

RL is a reasonable coach given a good team.

How many wins did RL have in his final year with us - and how many wins did Watters have in his first year with us, despite us losing Dawson and with an injury racked defence?

I'm happy with Watters, that's all - call that twisted and bitter if you like.

Not sure how cherry picking 2 average seasons says anything about Watters or Lyon.

If we play in another grand final any time soon I will be rapt in Watters.

You must really rate - Sheridan, Dawson, Suban, De Boer, Crowley, Neale, Sutcliffe & Spurr

[samoht]

Guerra became a player under the Hawks. Lake was on his last legs, Spangher, Bailey, Puopolo are far from champion players .. the Hawks certainly have a good coach.

[gringo]

Not sure how cherry picking 2 average seasons says anything about Watters or Lyon.

If we play in another grand final any time soon I will be rapt in Watters.

You must really rate - Sheridan, Dawson, Suban, De Boer, Crowley, Neale, Sutcliffe & Spurr

I think a bit like the Saints under Ross you don't notice how good some of the individuals are because of the team game. Dawson has been maligned but is very capable, Spurr, De Boer, Suban and Crowley all go alright.

Ross is a good coach but there are no guarantees when it comes to GFs. Unfortunately Ross will have learnt from the mistakes he made with us. Freo probably runs deeper than we did too. The year they had with injuries forced them to put games into a huge amount of kids who are now paying dividends.

[Johnny Member]

That's debatable, dragit. Don't know about comfortably.

I agree it's debatable.


I see duds running around at Hawthorn, and scratch my head at how they can be so dominant.

Dudes like Puopolo shouldn't even be playing AFL footy, let alone playing in the no. 1 team.


Fremantle have the best list I reckon.


Barlow. Mundy. Pavlich. Sandilands. McPharlin. Fyfe. Pearce. Crowley. Hill. These guys were always A-graders. Before Lyon arrived. That's 9 deadset top shelfers in your starting 18.

Lyon has managed to improve Ballantyne, Suban, Mizungo, Mayne, DeBoer, Johnson, Clarke, Duffield and a few others to be very good. They were always good, but with the assistance of a very strong team around them they've become genuinely good players.

Their bottom 6 has the likes of Zac Dawson (a near back to back premiership FB!)!

So Lyon has some very, very good cattle. They're well coached, but I have their pure list ahead of Geelong and Hawthorn.



It's underrated how badly they were hit with injury in Harvey's last year.

[saintdooley]

He is a very smart coach. It only took him 2 years to get us playing his brand of footy and looks to be the same with Freo. I got on them at $18 in Feb so looking good at the moment.

[desertsaint]

I think Ross learned a lot in his time with us. Took a couple of years to work out a workable game plan, but installed one a lot quicker with Freo.
Will have learned from his three finals as well.
Reckon Freo are going to go very, very close.
Hawks need to bring their best game.
If Geelong make it, then I'd back Freo.

[dragit]

Barlow. Mundy. Pavlich. Sandilands. McPharlin. Fyfe. Pearce. Crowley. Hill. These guys were always A-graders. Before Lyon arrived. That's 9 deadset top shelfers in your starting 18.

How many cones have you smoked today?

Pavlich Sandilands & McPharlin are into their 30's - past their best.

Pearce & Hill have been flashy, silky front runners… I wouldn't call them A grade.

Crowley has never been A grade.

3 out of that 9 are AA. It's definitely a good list, but I don't think many people would rate it as the best in the comp.

It was always going to happen though I guess, even if Ross does win a flag, the haters will change from "he'll never win a flag" to "it's only because he has the best list"

[thejiggingsaint]

Nevertheless they took it right up to Geelong in a way that Geelong have rarely had it served up to them on their own midden and in the end beat them soundly! They will win the flag.

[bigcarl]

Personally I think Hawthorn will win it, but Lyin' is never to be underestimated. A master of psychology in the way he prepared his team for Geelong at the cattery in a final.

If they get in, and I reckon thry will, anything could happen. It's a final.

[Teflon]

i hope the hawks smash the absolute shite out of them on gf day

Same.

I want to read "Big question marks on whether Lyons game plan can stand up on the biggest day..."

[Scollop]

Frankly tjs you're deluded

I reckon the fact that the AFL threw a curve ball and gave the arrogant Catters MORE reasons to be arrogant may have played some strange games on the minds of the CATS coaches and especially the CATS players. Sure - RL sides are damn hard to play against and there now exists that extra element that plays on the oppositions minds when they come up against Ross Lyon...but seriously...do you think they are better than Hawthorn?

Everyone knows Rossy has a good reputution, he is a workaholic and that he leaves no stone unturned. That doesn't change the fact that RL was an apprentice senior coach in 2009. His coaching improved in 2010 and he was respected for his gameday nouse, his defensive pressure and his ability to focus his players on the job at hand. BUT...he failed to get the job done at St Kilda.

Time heals for me as a fan and I can appreciate that as professionals the players and Ross will always have a bond for being on the journey together for more than 5 whole years. BUT the buck always stops with the head coach.

Was it the players who had failed or was it the coaches weaknesses that had been the main reason we failed?

In the 5 whole years that RL was at St Kilda he did not blood any NEW forwards. He did not have a plan B. Ultimately when it came to the big dance the other teams knew what to expect with our forward structure. RL had Jack Steven, Jarryn Geary and David Armitage available to him but he opted not to give any of these guys a guernsey in the big dances. He opted not to try out a Luke Miles or other options or an unknown quantity to surprise the opposition.

I'm sure he has learned and he has become a better coach but I never forgave Ross for the way he blamed bad kicking in one quarter of football or his continued penchant for finding excuses for his sides losses that deflected from his inadequacies and mistakes.

This was a price to pay for the focus being on a defensive mindset and unless you can put scoreboard pressure on your opponent IN THE LAST QUARTER you may as well put up a sign and say 'come and get it' your FLAG is ready. In '09 we failed to kick a solitary goal in the last quarter and this was not an accident. Let's not also forget a few other issues that some of us non-RL-devotees and non 'in ross we trust' disciples had with his decision to sit Luke Ball on the pine for half of the last quarter in 2009. In 2010 GF1 we chased the filth on the scoreboard for most of the match.

RL has great 'spin skills' and imo there was not enough analysis and criticism of Ross's methods and team selection and ultimate failure. It seemed everyone including Saints fans gobbled up the spin that Ross couldn't have done any better. Everyone was so forgiving.
That was probably due to some the sycopahants in the media like Paul Roos and Robert Walls (as well as the credits and accolades to the oppositions in both a team aspect and the head coaches that Lyon was up against in 09/10)

RL owes a great debt to the St Kilda football club for his professional career - not the other way around

[plugger66]

Frankly tjs you're deluded

I reckon the fact that the AFL threw a curve ball and gave the arrogant Catters MORE reasons to be arrogant may have played some strange games on the minds of the CATS coaches and especially the CATS players. Sure - RL sides are damn hard to play against and there now exists that extra element that plays on the oppositions minds when they come up against Ross Lyon...but seriously...do you think they are better than Hawthorn?

Everyone knows Rossy has a good reputution, he is a workaholic and that he leaves no stone unturned. That doesn't change the fact that RL was an apprentice senior coach in 2009. His coaching improved in 2010 and he was respected for his gameday nouse, his defensive pressure and his ability to focus his players on the job at hand. BUT...he failed to get the job done at St Kilda.

Time heals for me as a fan and I can appreciate that as professionals the players and Ross will always have a bond for being on the journey together for more than 5 whole years. BUT the buck always stops with the head coach.

Was it the players who had failed or was it the coaches weaknesses that had been the main reason we failed?

In the 5 whole years that RL was at St Kilda he did not blood any NEW forwards. He did not have a plan B. Ultimately when it came to the big dance the other teams knew what to expect with our forward structure. RL had Jack Steven, Jarryn Geary and David Armitage available to him but he opted not to give any of these guys a guernsey in the big dances. He opted not to try out a Luke Miles or other options or an unknown quantity to surprise the opposition.

I'm sure he has learned and he has become a better coach but I never forgave Ross for the way he blamed bad kicking in one quarter of football or his continued penchant for finding excuses for his sides losses that deflected from his inadequacies and mistakes.

This was a price to pay for the focus being on a defensive mindset and unless you can put scoreboard pressure on your opponent IN THE LAST QUARTER you may as well put up a sign and say 'come and get it' your FLAG is ready. In '09 we failed to kick a solitary goal in the last quarter and this was not an accident. Let's not also forget a few other issues that some of us non-RL-devotees and non 'in ross we trust' disciples had with his decision to sit Luke Ball on the pine for half of the last quarter in 2009. In 2010 GF1 we chased the filth on the scoreboard for most of the match.

RL has great 'spin skills' and imo there was not enough analysis and criticism of Ross's methods and team selection and ultimate failure. It seemed everyone including Saints fans gobbled up the spin that Ross couldn't have done any better. Everyone was so forgiving.
That was probably due to some the sycopahants in the media like Paul Roos and Robert Walls (as well as the credits and accolades to the oppositions in both a team aspect and the head coaches that Lyon was up against in 09/10)

RL owes a great debt to the St Kilda football club for his professional career - not the other way around

It must really be hurting you.

[saintspremiers]

RL can go get stuffed.

Hawks will knock them off in the granny.

Or 30,000 Saints members may try and knock off Clarko lol!

[plugger66]

RL can go get stuffed.

Hawks will knock them off in the granny.

Or 30,000 Saints members may try and knock off Clarko lol!

Why? Im guessing a fair few would be hoping freo win. Im guessing most saints players would be hoping freo win.

[Scollop]

I couldn't give a rats tossbag whether he wins for Freo or not you silly man. I am like you...I hardly watched much footy. Whats the point when our team isn't there?! You only read what's in the hun and you - like most sheep - do not think for yourself. Why did Ross stuff up with our team??

I know you didn't bother reading what I wrote because you are incapable of understanding anything with more than 3 phrases...LOL If I was a RL disciple I wouldn't bother either. I understand it's hard to say to someone who has faith in Ross that they shouldn't!!!

[Waltzing St Kilda]

With scores level and 90 seconds to go in the GF the ball will bounce into Hayden Ballantine's hands in the goal square and he'll slam it through for an historic victory.

[saintkellerm]

Have to agree with Scollop..good points.

I don't think it is about hurt...more about how he is continuing to evolve and learn as a coach. The question will be - will he do better then what he had accomplished at St Kilda. Time will tell and if he does reach the ultimate then he willl be known as a great coach, but if he doesn't, then he will be known as a very good coach.

Still think he is a very good coach and I enjoyed watching the Dockers beating the Cats in Geelong.

However, the question will be for myself personally, will I be happy to see them win a flag...part of me says yes and part of me says no.

Its just the same as I don't want to see Hawthorn, Sydney, Carlton or Port win the premiership but someone has to and sometimes it all depends who they play (ie. last year no way did I want Hawthorn to win, and the year before no way did I want Collingwood to win, but dont like Geelong either...and then couple of years ago, did not want to see Sydney win).

[plugger66]

I couldn't give a rats tossbag whether he wins for Freo or not you silly man. I am like you...I hardly watched much footy. Whats the point when our team isn't there?! You only read what's in the hun and you - like most sheep - do not think for yourself. Why did Ross stuff up with our team??

I know you didn't bother reading any of that because you are incapable of understanding anything with more than 3 phrases...LOL If I was a RL disciple I wouldn't bother either. I understand it's hard to say to someone who has faith in Ross that they shouldn't!!!

I read it all. I didnt think much of it at all. I have no idea why you think I hardly watched much footy. Saw 3 out of 4 games. just happened to miss the Freo game. How do you only read whats in the HS? you are making things up to try and improve your arguement. No I made up my mind about RL from watching him coach but more importantly hearing players say how good he was. Hope you trust their opinion afterall they saw him nearly every day.

Maybe I shouldnt underestimate your opinion. You to could have played under RL at the Saints. If thats true I apologise as you certainly would have more knowledge tha me.

[Scollop]

Most people have more brains than you. You do know your footy but you are a bit stubborn...and you don't like to agree with anything any of your adversaries have to say on this forum!!!!!

I'll repeat 1 sentence; "I'm sure he has learned and he has become a better coach but I never forgave Ross for the way he blamed bad kicking in one quarter of football or his continued penchant for finding excuses for his sides losses that deflected from his inadequacies and mistakes."

What do you have to say to that, without asking for an opinion from Gilbo or Joey or Lenny

[plugger66]

Most people have more brains than you. You do know your footy but you are a bit stubborn...and you don't like to agree with anything any of your adversaries have to say on this forum!!!!!

I'll repeat 1 sentence; "I'm sure he has learned and he has become a better coach but I never forgave Ross for the way he blamed bad kicking in one quarter of football or his continued penchant for finding excuses for his sides losses that deflected from his inadequacies and mistakes."

What do you have to say to that, without asking for an opinion from Gilbo or Joey or Lenny

Most people have more brains than me but I know my footy. Thats an interesting assessment. cant think iv much else we discuss here but footy but go with it if you like. And I dont agree with anything my adveraries say. Im pretty sure a few on here think RL can coach so im agreeing with them but again go for it if its helps your arguement.

As for your statement I dont know what to say. isnt that your opinion? And I have no idea why you would mention those names either. Again you really just make up things that somehow think improve your arguements. To me they just weaken it as its all made up stuff.

[Con Gorozidis]

Freo are up to their absolute eyeballs for this flag. If they dont win they will go very close.
I cant see them getting blown away now.

[Scollop]

deflect, divert, distract...You sound like Ross Lyon

"Round and round you go, clutching at irrelevance, asserting your rights to miss the point and hacking at anyone who might bother to think beyond your flatulent prognosticating." Who was that directed to I wonder

[Spinner]

I couldn't give a rats tossbag whether he wins for Freo or not you silly man. I am like you...I hardly watched much footy. Whats the point when our team isn't there?! You only read what's in the hun and you - like most sheep - do not think for yourself. Why did Ross stuff up with our team??

I know you didn't bother reading what I wrote because you are incapable of understanding anything with more than 3 phrases...LOL If I was a RL disciple I wouldn't bother either. I understand it's hard to say to someone who has faith in Ross that they shouldn't!!!

Since though you have hardly watched any footy I'll buy you a ticket to the Geelong game this Friday night at the.....MCG.

You should count yourself lucky there is football in Melbourne this week.

What a better way to spend 2.5 hours - Let's see if you realize why you are there.