Nettlefold on SEN

[ozrulestrace]

From the Oxford Pocket Dictionary-

"trained, & refined state of the understanding & manners & tastes, phase of this prevalent at a time or place"

See therein lies our problem- it's a football club playing AustralianRules Football.

At one point do you think the players and or supporters would even understand what that means?

[fingers]

I give up.

[Johnny Member]

Different clubs have different ways of doing things, and different standards in regards to certain areas of the sport.

Is that a 'culture'? Probably, by definition. I won't argue against that.

My point is two fold.

1) it doesn't matter in regards to success.

West Coast, North, Brisbane, Collingwood have all had horrendous 'off-field' setups in place in regards to players' acceptable behaviour. It never matters, and no one flinches when they're winning. The word 'culture' never gets mentioned in regards to it being a problem for them when they're winning.

There is no correlation between being a good footy team, and not lighting dwarfs on fire, kicking drinks in the head in fights at pubs or riding in cars with murderers.

You can do both. And for 150 years clubs have been doing both.


2) how can the standards set by the guys in charge now, have any link to those set by the leaders 10, 50, 100 years ago? The days of a club being incestuous in the sense that a club is made up of 'club people' are well and truly over.

There's barely a 'Hawthorn person' at Hawthorn. Barely a 'Geelong person' at Geelong, and barely a 'Saints person' at the Saints. So anything happening at clubs now, is a direct result of decisions made by people at the club now. Not some 100 year 'culture' that no one at the club has any memory or even link to!? Most of the time, the people in charge of clubs now, were the opposition if the club when this apparent 'culture' was dictating things.

Is the current Richmond 'culture' anything to do with Richmond? Or is it Port? Or Essendon?

And is Port's current culture Geelong's doing? Or St Kilda's? Or Gold Coast's?

[Johnny Member]

Is our current 'culture' a St Kilda thing? Ross Lyon, Leigh Tudor, John Barker, Scott Watters, Dempster, Schneider, and about 100 other non-St Kilda guys have built and put in place the current 'culture'. And unless they're pathetic and as weak as piss as leaders and managers - I'd highly doubt they've allowed some 'culture' that was apparently at the place 50 years before they were even born, dictate the standards they put in place.

It's utterly illogical. It's the sporting equivalent of believing in god.

[SainterK]

You're missing the point.

This is player driven.

They all feel crap about what happened.

That's their prerogative.

[mullet]

You're missing the point.

This is player driven.

They all feel crap about what happened.

That's their prerogative.

Hey K

That is what I said. Concentrate on what they can control, and not what others think of you or perceive as being the "culture" of the club.

Good on em, this is the start, but do it for themselves not just to be seen as doing the right thing.

I hope their are not players bitching that their trip has been cancelled or their was no after party otherwise it is useless.

[Johnny Member]

Based on Joey's response to the burnt dwarf - I highly doubt they feel bad about what happened. I'd suggest they feel bad about the public response to what was a massive overreaction to a minor 'incident'.

[SainterK]

Based on Joey's response to the burnt dwarf - I highly doubt they feel bad about what happened. I'd suggest they feel bad about the public response to what was a massive overreaction to a minor 'incident'.

That's not what they were saying.

Some of the emerging guys are honestly embarrassed by the immature nature of it all.

[Johnny Member]

Please.

They didn't do anything bad.

The public wet their dacks because the media told them to.

So the club acts on the stupidity of the public, shoots out a big 'we're so sorry, please forgive us' and hey presto! The 'culture' is now fine!

It's very basic PR.

[SainterK]

Please.

They didn't do anything bad.

The public wet their dacks because the media told them to.

So the club acts on the stupidity of the public, shoots out a big 'we're so sorry, please forgive us' and hey presto! The 'culture' is now fine!

It's very basic PR.

Have you spoken to any of them?

[Johnny Member]

No.

[Stillwaiting]

Please.

They didn't do anything bad.

The public wet their dacks because the media told them to.

So the club acts on the stupidity of the public, shoots out a big 'we're so sorry, please forgive us' and hey presto! The 'culture' is now fine!

It's very basic PR.

Have you spoken to any of them?

Yes the media had a great time with it, but again the stupidity of a player gave them ammunition to do that, and to say taking a lighter to someone shirt is a shyte thing to do. The club did the right thing and apologised for the indecent behaviour of some of the clubs players.

SainterK. Good to hear some of the young blokes were genuinely embarrassed, they should be

[saintly]

Based on Joey's response to the burnt dwarf - I highly doubt they feel bad about what happened. I'd suggest they feel bad about the public response to what was a massive overreaction to a minor 'incident'.

That's not what they were saying.

Some of the emerging guys are honestly embarrassed by the immature nature of it all.[/quote]

I bet on mad monday they were all there. and i bet they werent embarressed at the time. Its only that it got out, and it got to the media that is why they are embarressed, anyway thats what i think.

[Moorabbin Man]

I'm not sure that bagging netters has got anything to do with it. I'd actually put it to you that he and others at the club have helped save st.kilda by orchestrating the rebuild and getting sw there.

He & others at the club lost Lyon.

[fingers]

You're missing the point.

This is player driven.

They all feel crap about what happened.

That's their prerogative.

Hey K

That is what I said. Concentrate on what they can control, and not what others think of you or perceive as being the "culture" of the club.

Good on em, this is the start, but do it for themselves not just to be seen as doing the right thing.

I hope their are not players bitching that their trip has been cancelled or their was no after party otherwise it is useless.

You realise that if the players decide that this is the end of that kind of nonsense then they are creating a new culture. You get that don't you?

[Johnny Member]

As opposed to when they the same thing nearly 10 years ago and played finals for a decade and played in 2 GFs?

[mullet]

You're missing the point.

This is player driven.

They all feel crap about what happened.

That's their prerogative.

Hey K

That is what I said. Concentrate on what they can control, and not what others think of you or perceive as being the "culture" of the club.

Good on em, this is the start, but do it for themselves not just to be seen as doing the right thing.

I hope their are not players bitching that their trip has been cancelled or their was no after party otherwise it is useless.

You realise that if the players decide that this is the end of that kind of nonsense then they are creating a new culture. You get that don't you?

Depends upon how it is perceived by people on the outside.
As I said earlier, control what you can, work hard, but do it for yourself and the club and the team.
They could do this for 99.9 percent of the time and then someone stuffs up, and yep its our "culture" again.
So going by your theory fingers, they are working hard and creating a new "culture", but do you reckon that will get a mention if someone stuffs up. NO.
Did any of the press say didnt Stkilda do a great job of sending off their champions, looks like they are changing their "culture" NO.
We got laughed at for the "bubble", the press didnt think that we were changing the "culture".
You do get the fact that the Press use "culture" in a derogatory manner when referring to us dont you.

Lenny Hayes hasnt done anything wrong the whole time he has been at the club, however he is part of our "culture".

Culture smalture

[mullet]

As opposed to when they the same thing nearly 10 years ago and played finals for a decade and played in 2 GFs?

Exactly Johnny, none of the good stuff ever gets mentioned. Some how the good work disappears. This is what I originally said, the media want us to have a bad "culture".
But sydney have a great "culture" according to the media. The media perceives the "culture" so I reckon just concentrate on being better players, and not trying to change peoples perception of you, especially those who dont want to change.

[8856brother]

Was someone murdered?

[fingers]

You realise that if the players decide that this is the end of that kind of nonsense then they are creating a new culture. You get that don't you?

Depends upon how it is perceived by people on the outside.
As I said earlier, control what you can, work hard, but do it for yourself and the club and the team.
They could do this for 99.9 percent of the time and then someone stuffs up, and yep its our "culture" again.
So going by your theory fingers, they are working hard and creating a new "culture", but do you reckon that will get a mention if someone stuffs up. NO.
Did any of the press say didnt Stkilda do a great job of sending off their champions, looks like they are changing their "culture" NO.
We got laughed at for the "bubble", the press didnt think that we were changing the "culture".
You do get the fact that the Press use "culture" in a derogatory manner when referring to us dont you.

Lenny Hayes hasnt done anything wrong the whole time he has been at the club, however he is part of our "culture".

Culture smalture

Exacty - it matters for 0 on the outside. It only matters on the inside. Nobody needs to mention it of nobody stuffs up - IT ONLY MATTERS TO THE PEOPLE ON THE INSIDE.

The press use it because clubs talk about it and spend a lot of time money and effort building it.

[fingers]

As opposed to when they the same thing nearly 10 years ago and played finals for a decade and played in 2 GFs?

Exactly Johnny, none of the good stuff ever gets mentioned. Some how the good work disappears. This is what I originally said, the media want us to have a bad "culture".
But sydney have a great "culture" according to the media. The media perceives the "culture" so I reckon just concentrate on being better players, and not trying to change peoples perception of you, especially those who dont want to change.

It does get mentioned. The talk of our culture and the team ethos in 2009 and 2010 was very positive. Not withstanding we had some slip ups.

[Johnny Member]

It was positive because we were winning.

The actual off-field incidents were no different.

[BigMart]

Every workplace, club, school, street, suburb, city, country, religion.... Has a culture...

They way things are done and why...

I think you'd find the practises at most AFL clubs are similar.... But the culture of performance varies greatly...

Ask Aaron Hamill about what he noticed when he first came to StK, or Fraser.... Or Barry Hall kor Plugga visa versa

Our onfield culture improved greatly under GT, and went north again under Ross... Our Off Field culture has always been in the bottom few in the AFL! Not sure why? I suppose you learn from mentors, so culture is passed on??

If you think culture is not important at footy clubs, you making excuses for a poor culture

[Johnny Member]

'Culture' may be important - but a 'choirboy' culture certainly isn't.

History categorically proves that.

Hence the hysteria over the Saints' apparent off-field issues is so misguided.

[Johnny Member]

Every workplace, club, school, street, suburb, city, country, religion.... Has a culture...

They way things are done and why...

I think you'd find the practises at most AFL clubs are similar.... But the culture of performance varies greatly...

Ask Aaron Hamill about what he noticed when he first came to StK, or Fraser.... Or Barry Hall kor Plugga visa versa

Our onfield culture improved greatly under GT, and went north again under Ross... Our Off Field culture has always been in the bottom few in the AFL! Not sure why? I suppose you learn from mentors, so culture is passed on??

If you think culture is not important at footy clubs, you making excuses for a poor culture

Did you ever notice that everyone commented on how much a change Barry Hall had made when he went to Sydney - until he got reported. Then he'd be referred to as an ex-Saint.