Who the HELL????

[BigMart]

Devil head... Instead of a head up your arse defense.... Provide us with insight into why you think the players hired them?? Strippers are hired for one reason, and it's not their dancing skills.....

If you can't admit it was a ridiculous idea... Those reasons are your own....

Ill bet, next year they won't hire anyone......

Agreed Jones had a brain explosion... Using the term brain loosely...not sure he has one?!

[Devilhead]

Devil head... Instead of a head up your arse defense.... Provide us with insight into why you think the players hired them?? Strippers are hired for one reason, and it's not their dancing skills.....

If you can't admit it was a ridiculous idea... Those reasons are your own....

Ill bet, next year they won't hire anyone......

Agreed Jones had a brain explosion... Using the term brain loosely...not sure he has one?!

LM hired them to act as doormen and to entertain ...... is there a problem with that?? Do you have a problem with that??

Because it seems you do ...... mature adults trying to carve an honest living and you discriminate by saying that they should not have hired them ... why?? .... because they are dwarfs??

According to LM the hired entertainers sat most of the time on chairs drinking tea but by the way you are carrying on it seems that the St Kilda players hired them in order to ridicule and make fun of them for their own sick selfish purposes.

If it wasn't for CJ's lone act of stupidity there would not have been a problem .... even if they didn't hire dwarfs and hired other doormen / entertainers for the afternoon CJ's brain explosion most likely still would have featured in the media.

and you're the one telling me to get my head out of my arse ..... please give my regards to your colon!!

[Devilhead]

Strippers are hired for one reason, and it's not their dancing skills.....

and while I'm at it your insinuation that little people are hired solely for people to make fun of them due to their appearance just reveals in my opinion your true mindset and your discriminatory perception of them.

You see I view them as people where you see them as dwarves that the footy club shouldn't hire

Pathetic indeed!!

[markinUSA]

When we talk about issues of discrimination... for instance, when we talk about homophobic slurs... we often see someone self-identify as gay, and others saying they believe in gay rights. Note that hasn't happened here. We haven't seen a single person self-identify as disabled, and we haven't seen anyone else self-identify as strong advocates for the rights of disabled people. But we have seen a lot of disability hate speech... every time the word "midget" has been used here, that's a word that harms, and most disability rights advocates would see it as hate So... the lesson is that this isn't a safe place for disabled people.

Just like the footballers' get together wasn't a safe space for Blake Johnston.

Almost all of you will say the decision was unwise - but that is far from accepting a disability rights perspective. Far from adopting a policy of inclusion. Far from saying we need to break down disablist attitudes, including in the language used here.

So, far from baiting people... I think I've been remarkably open in addressing people's issues and answering people's questions (and some people are still complaining that I haven't answered their points). Given that I experience this as such a hostile anti-disability environment, I'd say that the baiting has been done by others, rather than me.

[Dr Spaceman]

It would seem that the only way the Dwarfs can ensure this type of situation is avoided is to abandon the idea of employing themselves in this type of field.

So the footballers' get together wasn't a safe space for Blake Johnston? But this is what these entertainers do; they hire themselves out to entertain at functions. They would know there would be AFL footy players there and that the footy players would be drinking. They would know there would be hi jinks involved. They probably wouldn't have known that there'd be a "Happy Birthday Clothes Lighting" mission planned, but then again probably most of those attending wouldn't have been aware that was planned either.

This is all about Silliness, Immaturity and Alcohol. It is not about Dwarfism or Disability, unless you want to make it so.

[saintbrat]

Mark are really just wanting people to 'hate' others be they shortstatured , gay, disabled, female, male, left handed or cross eyed...

( hate [heyt] Show IPA verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun verb (used with object)
1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest:)

there is no need for anyone to ' come out' as you suggest -
and has has been stated someone was abused by a short statured person in the past- and did not take it further because the reverse bias would have been as string,

the fact remains there was no HATE in the act perpetrated by CJ-
there was no INTENT to harm

yes there was there was some hurt, some embarresment, apparently humiliation- although that has dissipated with one TV interview,
and on the Saints players side there is regret and recompense for a mistake in judgment

whether or not it is criminal would be for the law and at this point and since agreement between the two parties some 48 hours ago there is no legal issue then it has not been deemed illegal so not criminal.

as most agree the team made a misjudgment,
the community ' outrage' too me is too strong, but is / should be about the act not about the condition of the person it was enacted upon- if it had come out that a fellow teammate was 'burnt' then I'm fairly certain it was have been only labelled a 'Dumb' act. or if the entertainer was from a differant profession.

it is your right to take your angst about the situation to the club- and I assume you will not be rejoining next year given your disgust for the current team or one member there of.

it saddens me that you could not wait for their response to your concerns before dragging the club further along the social media hysteria that these events bring.
the club acted with in 24 hours yet for many it would seem that the saints must pay forever and a day.

you will say that the club bought the hysteria on itself-- no it didn't media and forums and 26 pages of waffle here and elswhere and wild headlines did that-- the Club did not instruct a player to flick a gas lighter near clothes/ costumes it was a spur of the moment decison.

i guess as with the fact we bemoan the general sporting populous of 'lumping' all issues together- there are many saints fans who do the same.

[kosifantutti]

I'm not sure why we just can't say it was pathetic, a ridiculous decision to hire Dwarfes and even more stupid by Jones!

How that cannot be agreed upon, I'm staggered ...... Only conclusion IMO

They would have been rightly reemed by the bosses

It was pathetic, a ridiculous decision to hire Dwarfes and even more stupid by Jones!

Thanks for setting me straight BM.

[Dr Spaceman]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

[Eastern]

Apart from the act of complete STUPIDITY in this matter, there is another aspect that really DISAPPOINTS me;

As a club and a supporter base we were really building momentum over the past few weeks (not bad for a team finishing 16th). We had the FAN DAY & LOYALTY MARCH that allowed the club and the fans/members to "CONNECT" a little bit more. Then we had the CARNIVAL ATMOSPHERE around the last game and the retirements of three great warriors for OUR club as well as WINNING the last two games. All of that EVAPORATED through ONE ACT OF STUPIDITY, and it will take a long time and a lot of work to regain that CREDIBILITY.

My wish is that the players (ALL OF THEM) come out and make A REAL STATEMENT that this sort of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED at OUR club. They could start by making a statement at tonight's B&F on exactly how they intend to undo the damage that was done to the REPUTATION & PERCEIVED REPUTATION of OUR club through this act of COMPLETE STUPIDITY !!

[joffaboy]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

HATE CRIME, HATE CRIME, HATE CRIME

[SainterK]

Certainly is if true.

Media on the prowl.

Brissy don't exactly have the admin to be diligent right now, the are a rabble.

[joffaboy]

Apart from the act of complete STUPIDITY in this matter, there is another aspect that really DISAPPOINTS me;

As a club and a supporter base we were really building momentum over the past few weeks (not bad for a team finishing 16th). We had the FAN DAY & LOYALTY MARCH that allowed the club and the fans/members to "CONNECT" a little bit more. Then we had the CARNIVAL ATMOSPHERE around the last game and the retirements of three great warriors for OUR club as well as WINNING the last two games. All of that EVAPORATED through ONE ACT OF STUPIDITY, and it will take a long time and a lot of work to regain that CREDIBILITY.

My wish is that the players (ALL OF THEM) come out and make A REAL STATEMENT that this sort of behaviour WILL NOT BE TOLERATED at OUR club. They could start by making a statement at tonight's B&F on exactly how they intend to undo the damage that was done to the REPUTATION & PERCEIVED REPUTATION of OUR club through this act of COMPLETE STUPIDITY !!

Settle petal.

Really it was just a dumb act by a bunch of testosterone filled boof head footballers, blown out of all proportion by the entertainment company looking for publicity, the entertainer, looking for a payout, and the media looking for a story.

Only ones going OTT are a couple of hysterics on here.

Nothing story. Doesn't effact momentum, or the club in any way.

Dont sweat it.

[SunburySaint]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

Now that is something to be appauled about, way worse than what we have done..... My question though is if it happened on the eve of Mad Monday, why has it only come out now?

[The Fireman]

I find it interesting that when the side is going poorly or there has been an indiscretion Saint supporters seem to enjoy setting upon on each other , I guess it happens on other forums..but an interesting phenomena none the less.

[Kickit]

When we talk about issues of discrimination... for instance, when we talk about homophobic slurs... we often see someone self-identify as gay, and others saying they believe in gay rights. Note that hasn't happened here. We haven't seen a single person self-identify as disabled, and we haven't seen anyone else self-identify as strong advocates for the rights of disabled people. But we have seen a lot of disability hate speech... every time the word "midget" has been used here, that's a word that harms, and most disability rights advocates would see it as hate So... the lesson is that this isn't a safe place for disabled people.

Just like the footballers' get together wasn't a safe space for Blake Johnston.

Almost all of you will say the decision was unwise - but that is far from accepting a disability rights perspective. Far from adopting a policy of inclusion. Far from saying we need to break down disablist attitudes, including in the language used here.

So, far from baiting people... I think I've been remarkably open in addressing people's issues and answering people's questions (and some people are still complaining that I haven't answered their points). Given that I experience this as such a hostile anti-disability environment, I'd say that the baiting has been done by others, rather than me.

Correct its not a safe place for disabled people.
Similarly this is not a safe place for anyone.
Why not try a padded cell.

There is no evidence at all that he was victimised due to his stature.
Would you be up in arms if it had been an exotic dancer, a clown, a gorillagram?
Why was the dwarf victimised, because the dwarf was there. The other people who were there were also victimised.
If it had been a massive food fight and the only one in the place that didn't cop a pie in the face was a dwarf , you d be crying discrimination.

Meanwhile, I observe that many people in the world are arsholes. Since I don't discriminate, It is only logical that some of the "little people " are arsholes too.


Meanwhile a Brisbane player has been reported to have tipped a disabled guy out of his wheelchair. So of course we will keep hearing about the StKilda thing like its some sort of trend.

[Kickit]

It would seem that the only way the Dwarfs can ensure this type of situation is avoided is to abandon the idea of employing themselves in this type of field.

So the footballers' get together wasn't a safe space for Blake Johnston? But this is what these entertainers do; they hire themselves out to entertain at functions. They would know there would be AFL footy players there and that the footy players would be drinking. They would know there would be hi jinks involved. They probably wouldn't have known that there'd be a "Happy Birthday Clothes Lighting" mission planned, but then again probably most of those attending wouldn't have been aware that was planned either.

This is all about Silliness, Immaturity and Alcohol. It is not about Dwarfism or Disability, unless you want to make it so.

If they attend private bucks nights they have experienced much much much worse.

[kosifantutti]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

I just hope the goose is not The Goose or he'll quickly become "former Saint"

[Eastern]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

I just hope the goose is not The Goose or he'll quickly become "former Saint"

The article did say HIGH PROFILE Brisbane player. I can only think of ONE High Profile Brisbane player and it ain't Goose !!

[gringo]

I did bar work when I was at uni and mad mondays were an eye opener as was the police corruption and other unsavoury things you see when people are intoxicated. You get a pack of pissed men together and they go feral wolf pack. they are surrounded by a wall of other pissed tools and their ability to self regulate their behaviour disappears. You don't take it personally you just try not to do anything that is going to bring unwanted attention to you. might be hard as a dwarf but you need to keep your head down and have a thick skin ideally.

Dwarves have some kind of novelty factor in society- the role models are the guy off Jack ass or other jester type roles. People in society see them as good natured fools that will take ridicule for their entertainment. I don't believe it's necessarily deliberately cruel but a kind of way they are viewed which is contributed to by people like Arthur and Blake who play the jester role.

[kosifantutti]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

I just hope the goose is not The Goose or he'll quickly become "former Saint"

The article did say HIGH PROFILE Brisbane player. I can only think of ONE High Profile Brisbane player and it ain't Goose !!

Media speak: High Profile = anyone who has ever played a game

[maverick]

I find it interesting that when the side is going poorly or there has been an indiscretion Saint supporters seem to enjoy setting upon on each other , I guess it happens on other forums..but an interesting phenomena none the less.

That's many supporters problem, many Saints supporters need to blame someone, easier to blame the organisation and club, than the individual. Individuals are heroes.

Keeping tossing out admin, because we must keep the heroes.

It feels like many supporters prefer being down the bottom so there is something to complain about.

[SinCitySainter]

And therein lies the rub.

More likely Shakespeare.

Actually it is a misquote from Shakespeare's Hamlet.
The actual quote is "To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub: For in that sleep of death what dreams may come"

[satchmo]

Mark, is right that you believe any crime committed against a person with a disability is inherently a "hate crime"?

[Bluthy]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

Now that is something to be appauled about, way worse than what we have done..... My question though is if it happened on the eve of Mad Monday, why has it only come out now?

[GOES INTO SAINTSATIONAL DENIAL MODE]

Oh for gods sake drop the faux outrage. Where you there? No, so maybe shut up until you know anything. It was just a stupid prank or an accident or "inadvertent". They shouldn't have done it but the guy doesn't sound hurt. Probably just drumming up business for his wheelchair/kebab company. There were probably just passing him a kebab because he couldn't reach the counter and he accidently fell out. What a beat up. I'm sure we'll see him on ACA cashing in. Sponsors don't care about drunk players assaulting wheelchair bound people. Jeez, you've lived a sheltered life. Have you been to Mad Mondays? We once set fire to a wheelchair bound man and toasted marshmallows on him. Bit of fun and we felt good because we being INCLUSIVE in our activities. Now THAT is affirmative action. Apparently the players emailed him telling him they wouldn't pay for his kebab because he wasn't much fun that night. Fair enough too. Sometimes clubs need to make a stand so they don't get pushed around by these moochers on society. Its his own fault for being a figure of fun by rolling around in a wheelchair all the time. Get some dignity mate and then maybe we'll treat you right. Fair Dinkum! Lets move on already.

[satchmo]

Looks like the focus is about to switch to another AFL club 



http://couriermail.com.au/news/queensla ... 6712968889

Now that is something to be appauled about, way worse than what we have done..... My question though is if it happened on the eve of Mad Monday, why has it only come out now?

[GOES INTO SAINTSATIONAL DENIAL MODE]

Oh for gods sake drop the faux outrage. Where you there? No, so maybe shut up until you know anything. It was just a stupid prank or an accident or "inadvertent". They shouldn't have done it but the guy doesn't sound hurt. Probably just drumming up business for his wheelchair/kebab company. There were probably just passing him a kebab because he couldn't reach the counter and he accidently fell out. What a beat up. I'm sure we'll see him on ACA cashing in. Sponsors don't care about drunk players assaulting wheelchair bound people. Jeez, you've lived a sheltered life. Have you been to Mad Mondays? We once set fire to a wheelchair bound man and toasted marshmallows on him. Bit of fun and we felt good because we being INCLUSIVE in our activities. Now THAT is affirmative action. Apparently the players emailed him telling him they wouldn't pay for his kebab because he wasn't much fun that night. Fair enough too. Sometimes clubs need to make a stand so they don't get pushed around by these moochers on society. Its his own fault for being a figure of fun by rolling around in a wheelchair all the time. Get some dignity mate and then maybe we'll treat you right. Fair Dinkum! Lets move on already.

I think that you are grasping at something other than a concept.