Who the HELL????

[gringo]

It is if he's a dwarf.

Im not only a dwarf but my last name is Duthie.

[markp]

Im not only a dwarf but my last name is Duthie.

Plugger Duthie?

I always thought there was a bit of you in her.

[plugger66]

[quote="plugger66quote="gringo"]

I hate myself for agreeing with plugger for a change.

Its not a crime to hate plugger (sorry plugger)[/quote]

It is if he's a dwarf.[/quote]


Im not only a dwarf but my last name is Duthie.[/quote]

How are the twins[/quote]


You mean Sam and David? yes going well. Just had their 2nd birthday. Their godfather is Ricky.

[gringo]

Kickit,

Regarding the rate of violence against disabled people - there is a litany of evidence. It is such a big problem that Women With Disabilities Australia has been calling for a Royal Commission or Official Public Inquiry into Violence Against People with Disabilities in Australia for over a year now.
http://www.wwda.org.au/Summary_and_Recommendations.pdf

It depends on the type of disability. e.g. "People with an intellectual disability are almost three times more likely than those without a disability to be victims of physical assault, sexual assault and robbery" http://www.aic.gov.au/documents/F/6/A/% ... 7Dti60.pdf

The numbers are remarkably consistent cross-nationally.
An American study found "Depending on the type of violent crime (rape/sexual assault, robbery, assault, and their subcategories), prevalence was 6 to 23 times greater among persons with SMI than among the general population. "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1389236/

It is an international problem. In 2007, the European Parliament commissioned research taht found that almost 80 per cent of women with disabilities are victims of violence. It's cited in this resolution
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 60:EN:HTML

With the utmost respect, just because it exists doesn't make it the case in this scenario. It's no different to someone saying that the drug culture in the USA is an african american problem and the incarceration rate of black americans means that they should incarcerate an individual with a small bag of marijuana because it will stop the bigger problem. It's taking an extreme point of view that does little to make your point of view seem reasonable.

[gringo]

[quote="plugger66quote="gringo"]

I hate myself for agreeing with plugger for a change.

Its not a crime to hate plugger (sorry plugger)

It is if he's a dwarf.[/quote]


Im not only a dwarf but my last name is Duthie.[/quote]

How are the twins[/quote]


You mean Sam and David? yes going well. Just had their 2nd birthday. Their godfather is Ricky.[/quote]


You're lucky that it's not triplets -one would have a blonde surf mop, one a Richard Simmons perm and one a vanilla Ice retro coif.

[stinger]

Pretty Stingy from Montagna imho.
Just pay the dwarf, apologise and move on.
You dont play hard ball against a dwarf.

you could once....

[Dis Believer]

I use the term 'hate crime' because that is the disability movement's preferred language; I could have simply "bias crime" (and that might have appealed more to a nondisabled audience, but that was never the point).

And therein lies the rub. There is a hell of a big difference between bias (or discrimnation) and htred. Yet I note you r refer to the "disability movement's preferred language". It is, as with so many political movements these days, the objective to pigeonhole people and infer an automatic "villain status" by the modification of the use of language.

We witmessed it with the former PM , no longer cutting through by labelling the Opposition Leader sexist, they took it up to "misogynist". Why? Becuase it infers a more evil character, one who is no longer simply ingorant or insensitive and unelightened, but one who actually HATES women. Does anyone imagine a long time married man with 3 daughters actually hates women? Doubtul, but it plays better in the press. It forces him to go to great lengthts to clear his name of the mud. It shifts the power in the interaction.

Same thing at play here. We politically elevate from people being ignorant, insensitive or thoughtless, to being "haters". The first is a passive state, where there is no bad guy, but move it to "hatred" and that's an active and concious position that infers a bad guy.

It's all bulls***. It's manipulation of the language for no benefit. If you had said Jones was a dumb ass insensitive flog that needed some education to get the perspective of the dwarf, pretty much everyone on here would have agreed with you. Instead you had to rail against all and sundry about "hate crimes" and try and force everyone to engage in this using the language that you think they should use. Why? Because your language automatically defaults theose involved into certain positions, and distributes power accordingly.

[stinger]

Great news.
While all of you have spent your time criticizing me, and making out as if I am the only one who could possibly see this as a disability hate crime, disability organizations across the country are now responding to it and framing it this way.
I'll quote from a magazine written by and for people with disabilities, that came out today.
-----
What is a disability hate crime?

If someone commits a crime against a person with a
disability because they do not like disabled people, that is a disability hate crime.

This week, everyone is talking about Blake Johnston. Blake Johnston is an entertainer who was set on fire by
football players at the St Kilda Football Club.

Blake Johnston wasn’t hurt, and it was supposed to be a joke. But Blake didn’t think it was funny.

Blake has a disability - he is a short statured person. Some people are asking if the same thing would have happened if the entertainer at the club didn’t have a disability.

Some famous Australian entertainers with a disability are comedians Stella Young, Adam Hills and Tim Ferguson.

We all have rights to:
keep safe and feel safe
use the Law
speak up and for people to listen to us
be treated well and with respect
be who we are
make our own choices
keep our things safe

It is wrong for anyone to
hurt you or make you feel unsafe.
It is wrong for anyone to take or harm your things.
It is wrong for anyone to treat you badly for who you are.

You should tell someone if anything makes you feel bad.

What can you do if you think you have been a victim of hate crime?
You have a right to
Tell someone if
anything makes you feel bad
Report it if something is wrong
Tell the police if anyone does something against the law
------

So, the campaign to pressure the AFL to respond more appropriately to disability in a more appropriate manner is well under way. Thanks in no small part to the crime committed by Saints players.

So we are planning to run the world according to how people feel - excellent - that should work well... A magazine by disabled peopel, for disabled people. Well that should be nice and impartial. Congratulations. Attitudes like this do more harm than good in the wider community to the cause they "support". You should try reading a childrens story "The boy who cried wolf", or in your world, "The boy who cried hate crime"!

i thought Tim Ferguson's only disability was being born with out a sense of humour.

I was assaulted by Arthur the other dwarf and ridiculed because of the way I look. Is that a hate crime- I said nothing to him and didn't even interact when he started insulting me. He spat a drink in the face of a girl i was with, hit me in the groin repeatedly and smashed me over the head with a pool cue from behind while goading me to fight him. Is that a hate crime or is that okay because he is disabled. i couldn't do anything back with out looking like a coward so just let him keep going and he knew the bouncers so they wouldn't kick him out.

Is that a hate crime? He said he hated me when I asked him what his problem was. Apparently I thought I was good. So probably fair enough, but as a vacuous, egotistical man who was targeted because of his physical attributes I'm not afforded the same protection because if I wanted to I could have punched him out. Blake johnson could equally go and get a baseball bat and level the playing field with Clint.

I'm a lefty and against bullying of minorities myself but he was targeted no more than anyone else there.

that's a horrible story mate...why didn't you go to the cops...???

[markinUSA]

Gringo
I am very sorry that this happened to you.
I absolutely condemn his actions.
I condemn violence in all its forms.
I hope you went to the police. And I hope he was charged.
People who commit violent crimes should be in jail.

[Johnny Member]

It's not horrible if you put the Benny Hill music over the top of it.

[Kickit]

Fair enough.

After reading some of the report, it seems to be a stab in the dark to suggest that the crimes are due to "hate". In fact it seems to be more the "soft target" approach by the cowardly bunch that comprise these sorts of criminals. The same types who commit crime against the Elderly
I think it says more about the way the disabled are cared for and where they are forced to live than anything else.

I still don't see that you are supporting your "violent hate crime" argument in the incident we are discussing.

[stinger]

Forget what these people say because they dont have all the facts. Can you tell us why it is a hate crime when it happened to many other people at the venue. Im sure everyone here thinks it was stupid but i reckon you are out on your own saying its a hate crime. it makes no sense at all IMO. If you could explain instead of giving us one eyed articles.

I hate myself for agreeing with plugger for a change.

Its not a crime to hate plugger (sorry plugger)[/quote]

you got that one right...

[Devilhead]

Gringo
I am very sorry that this happened to you.
I absolutely condemn his actions.
I condemn violence in all its forms.
I hope you went to the police. And I hope he was charged.
People who commit violent crimes should be in jail.

Hey Mark what is your take regarding the statement on the Little People of America website that many little people would prefer NOT to wear the label as being "disabled"?

[gringo]

i thought Tim Ferguson's only disability was being born with out a sense of humour.

I was assaulted by Arthur the other dwarf and ridiculed because of the way I look. Is that a hate crime- I said nothing to him and didn't even interact when he started insulting me. He spat a drink in the face of a girl i was with, hit me in the groin repeatedly and smashed me over the head with a pool cue from behind while goading me to fight him. Is that a hate crime or is that okay because he is disabled. i couldn't do anything back with out looking like a coward so just let him keep going and he knew the bouncers so they wouldn't kick him out.

Is that a hate crime? He said he hated me when I asked him what his problem was. Apparently I thought I was good. So probably fair enough, but as a vacuous, egotistical man who was targeted because of his physical attributes I'm not afforded the same protection because if I wanted to I could have punched him out. Blake johnson could equally go and get a baseball bat and level the playing field with Clint.

I'm a lefty and against bullying of minorities myself but he was targeted no more than anyone else there.

that's a horrible story mate...why didn't you go to the cops...???

It was a bit embarrassing -I was bashed by a midget -doesn't sound too much like a crime. My mates gave me enough grief about it I wasn't going to go to get the cops laughing at me too. I'm tough enough to deal with anyway. I guess I felt he's probably copped s*** so he's just getting it back on someone else.

[Dr Spaceman]

Its not a crime to hate plugger (sorry plugger)

That's incorrect mullet. It is a crime; a serious crime! And quite hateful!









However if you care to jump over to the Animal Enclosure Forum, well there it's quite acceptable and, to be frank, expected

[stinger]

you know the saying..."wouldn't know if his arse was on fire.......well...i think cj may just have been testing ........

[markinUSA]

Devilhead

Think of all the stereotypes associated with being disabled... being devalued, being less than, (I don't need to rehash the stereotypes and prejudices... many of them are reflected here) ... few people choose to be disabled, and most struggle with disability identity at some stage or another. And many struggle with the devalued identity even if they are members of disability groups, receiving a disability pension, and are usually identified by others and themselves as 'disabled'.

Disabled people face a cultural background of prejudice, social marginalization, inaccessible environments, and enormous attitudinal barriers. So, most disabled people struggle with their identities.

That doesn't mean that collectively, legally, or politically, the identity of 'disability' should be abandoned. It does mean that a lot of people have internalized oppression, and it also means that people struggle with accepting an identity which has so much prejudice directed towards it.

Many people struggle with their sexual identities. That doesn't mean that we say there shoudl be no movement for GLBTQIQ people. It just means that social inequalities play out on an individual's psyche in complex ways.

[stinger]

i thought Tim Ferguson's only disability was being born with out a sense of humour.

I was assaulted by Arthur the other dwarf and ridiculed because of the way I look. Is that a hate crime- I said nothing to him and didn't even interact when he started insulting me. He spat a drink in the face of a girl i was with, hit me in the groin repeatedly and smashed me over the head with a pool cue from behind while goading me to fight him. Is that a hate crime or is that okay because he is disabled. i couldn't do anything back with out looking like a coward so just let him keep going and he knew the bouncers so they wouldn't kick him out.

Is that a hate crime? He said he hated me when I asked him what his problem was. Apparently I thought I was good. So probably fair enough, but as a vacuous, egotistical man who was targeted because of his physical attributes I'm not afforded the same protection because if I wanted to I could have punched him out. Blake johnson could equally go and get a baseball bat and level the playing field with Clint.

I'm a lefty and against bullying of minorities myself but he was targeted no more than anyone else there.

that's a horrible story mate...why didn't you go to the cops...???

It was a bit embarrassing -I was bashed by a midget -doesn't sound too much like a crime. My mates gave me enough grief about it I wasn't going to go to get the cops laughing at me too. I'm tough enough to deal with anyway. I guess I felt he's probably copped s*** so he's just getting it back on someone else.

you're a better man than most...and certainly better than arthur......

[Johnny Member]

Twice the man Arthur is.

[Devilhead]

Devilhead

Think of all the stereotypes associated with being disabled... being devalued, being less than, (I don't need to rehash the stereotypes and prejudices... many of them are reflected here) ... few people choose to be disabled, and most struggle with disability identity at some stage or another. And many struggle with the devalued identity even if they are members of disability groups, receiving a disability pension, and are usually identified by others and themselves as 'disabled'.

Disabled people face a cultural background of prejudice, social marginalization, inaccessible environments, and enormous attitudinal barriers. So, most disabled people struggle with their identities.

That doesn't mean that collectively, legally, or politically, the identity of 'disability' should be abandoned. It does mean that a lot of people have internalized oppression, and it also means that people struggle with accepting an identity which has so much prejudice directed towards it.

Many people struggle with their sexual identities. That doesn't mean that we say there shoudl be no movement for GLBTQIQ people. It just means that social inequalities play out on an individual's psyche in complex ways.

So in short you make it your mission to go out of your way and make these "confused internally oppressed" people accept that they are in fact "disabled" even if they don't feel like they are.

That's a pretty good way to go about "devaluing" someone.

Quite easy to see why they struggle with their identities

[Kickit]

It was a bit embarrassing -I was bashed by a midget -doesn't sound too much like a crime. My mates gave me enough grief about it I wasn't going to go to get the cops laughing at me too. I'm tough enough to deal with anyway. I guess I felt he's probably copped s*** so he's just getting it back on someone else.

A lefty too, so disabled at that.

[Kickit]

Obviously Oscar Pistorius was innocent because its only possible for the disabled to be victims.

[SaintPav]

And therein lies the rub.

What does that mean? Is it even proper English?

[satchmo]

And therein lies the rub.

What does that mean? Is it even proper English?

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/The ... es+the+rub

[ozrulestrace]

Ok I've read 25 pages of discussion about the possiblity this should be labelled as a hate crime.

For a start, do we even have within the Crimes Act something that identifies particular acts against the person as a "hate crime"? I'm sure there will be someone out there that confirm or deny whether "hate crime" exist in this country. So if hate crimes aren't on the books, then we're wasting our time even discussing it, and MarkintheUSA is expecting our legal system to come up with something that quite frankly would get past the magistrates court let alone any higher up.

But in the words of Andy Dimwit "having said that" you could possibly argue that there has been a violation of Blake's Human Rights under the Human Rights Act (don't blame me I didn't introduce this legislation) but any matter reported to the police has to be assessed along the lines of whether or not the victims rights have been violated under this particular act.

The one thing I would say to MarkinthUsa if you want to get stuck into anyone, take aim at Sam Newman every time he trots Arthur out for some gag or joke. I just cringe and feel ashamed that awful man needs to exploit the Little Person in order to raise some laughs on an infantile football show. It's embarassing.

That's where you should aim you anger, not at some really stupid stupid football end of season turn, where we should be more concerned about the use of gas lighters in an enclosed room and probably not manned by fire marshals to put out such fires. It could have turned really ugly really quickly and that's more of a concern to me.