Okay Mr Watters show us you can coach?

[gringo]

If history has any to go by he will spend three or four years rebuilding this playing group into a competitive outfit then when they are on the cusp the board will decide he is from the loser past or a highly credentialed senior coach who has never done any hard yards will be put in over the top of him. They will get the list into finals and everyone will bag Watters out saying what a loser coach he is.

Never take over a bottomed out list. It's like forward planning and big infrastructure projects are in government. The next regime take over and take all the credit. Paul Keating is remembered as the recession man but the following regime took the credit for his super schemes and floating the dollar internationally and claimed it was there lack of any kind of reforms and dour lack of spending that made us rich? Small thinkers just want simple answers in politics and footy.

Kick him out and bring in a Malthouse type. Roos is a one trick pony that has no real currency other than one scrounged GF win but the idiots think he will be a messiah. If he takes over Brissie it will be the list he inherited that takes them any further. I would look at Chocko or Eade before Roos any day.

Where is the logic in Eade being better than Roos. Roos is an excellent coach with excellent record. And if Roos trick is winning low scoring GF then I would take it. Roos will not take the current side to a GF but players are smart and they know a great coach. it will be easier to recruit players with Roos there than with any other coach.

Eade hasn't won a GF but has coached multiple teams to prelims and is tarnished for having also stayed when the going got tough. Roos came in to a rebuilt list ran them out and then left. Roos was one mark from being an average coach. Choco the same as Eade except he won a GF with Port Roos has been off Blighting around in the media and is hot property on past glory.

[plugger66]

If history has any to go by he will spend three or four years rebuilding this playing group into a competitive outfit then when they are on the cusp the board will decide he is from the loser past or a highly credentialed senior coach who has never done any hard yards will be put in over the top of him. They will get the list into finals and everyone will bag Watters out saying what a loser coach he is.

Never take over a bottomed out list. It's like forward planning and big infrastructure projects are in government. The next regime take over and take all the credit. Paul Keating is remembered as the recession man but the following regime took the credit for his super schemes and floating the dollar internationally and claimed it was there lack of any kind of reforms and dour lack of spending that made us rich? Small thinkers just want simple answers in politics and footy.

Kick him out and bring in a Malthouse type. Roos is a one trick pony that has no real currency other than one scrounged GF win but the idiots think he will be a messiah. If he takes over Brissie it will be the list he inherited that takes them any further. I would look at Chocko or Eade before Roos any day.

Where is the logic in Eade being better than Roos. Roos is an excellent coach with excellent record. And if Roos trick is winning low scoring GF then I would take it. Roos will not take the current side to a GF but players are smart and they know a great coach. it will be easier to recruit players with Roos there than with any other coach.

Eade hasn't won a GF but has coached multiple teams to prelims and is tarnished for having also stayed when the going got tough. Roos came in to a rebuilt list ran them out and then left. Roos was one mark from being an average coach. Choco the same as Eade except he won a GF with Port Roos has been off Blighting around in the media and is hot property on past glory.

He was also one kick off winning 2 GF's. he one won however he won it. And Im not knocking Eade at all but IMO he isnt as good as Roos and more importantly wouldnt get players to the club. And a funny comment by you about Roos coming in at a rebuilt list and ran them out and left. Just words but factually 100% wrong but go with it. Sometimes you need to look at facts when discussing things.

[gringo]

The question is - what makes a good coach?

Comments please

I think for where we are we have the perfect coach, Media friendly, good communicator, development credibility, strong systems being put in place and well regarded by the playing group from what I have heard.

On the qualities of a good coach I guess they all have strengths and weaknesses. Ross was a great tactician but pretty poor at development and planning from the outside looking in. Watters questions are the opposite, has great qualities outside the tactical stuff but until he wins finals there will be question marks.

After Ross' first couple of years I wasn't convinced he had any idea but he proved a master at grinding out wins with a chess like game plan. Watters will have a harder time proving his credentials as in all likely hood the idiots will bay for his blood before he ever gets a chance to do it with a decent list at his disposal.

[BigMart]

Strategic/tactical nous.... And management skills



Rest I couldn't care less about....

There is a footy dept to deal with other crap.

[gringo]

He was also one kick off winning 2 GF's. he one won however he won it. And Im not knocking Eade at all but IMO he isnt as good as Roos and more importantly wouldnt get players to the club. And a funny comment by you about Roos coming in at a rebuilt list and ran them out and left. Just words but factually 100% wrong but go with it. Sometimes you need to look at facts when discussing things.

Well the fact are he took over from a very good list who had unexpectedly fallen away after being up in the finals most years. Roos took over and they won all their games but he still inherited a finals capable list that was building up. Eade may have lost the players but it was still Eade getting the boot because they unexpectedly started to fall away. It's my opinion he inherited a good list.

If he and Ross Lyon are so good that playing lists don't matter, why did either the Saints or Swans ever need to stop playing in GFs? A poor coach can be disastrous liability but they are not alchemists.

[plugger66]

He was also one kick off winning 2 GF's. he one won however he won it. And Im not knocking Eade at all but IMO he isnt as good as Roos and more importantly wouldnt get players to the club. And a funny comment by you about Roos coming in at a rebuilt list and ran them out and left. Just words but factually 100% wrong but go with it. Sometimes you need to look at facts when discussing things.

Well the fact are he took over from a very good list who had unexpectedly fallen away after being up in the finals most years. Roos took over and they won all their games but he still inherited a finals capable list that was building up. Eade may have lost the players but it was still Eade getting the boot because they unexpectedly started to fall away. It's my opinion he inherited a good list.

If he and Ross Lyon are so good that playing lists don't matter, why did either the Saints or Swans ever need to stop playing in GFs? A poor coach can be disastrous liability but they are not alchemists.

Why do you always mention things that have never been said or why do you say things that are pure guess work and facts suggest you are wrong.

Who has ever said playing lists dont matter? If anyone says that Gringo I suggest you ignore then because its clearly rubbish.

As for other point about Roos inheriting a rebuilt list and then running out on them that again is all just pure speculation. The facts though is he improved the win loss record straight away and then left when the side was still in the 8 and staying in the 8 the following year. Then one year later won a flag. Them the facts. All the other stuff is just an opinion with no facts what so ever to back them up.

[Greg T]

As the last lot of our better players disappear ,
I don't think until we get another Key forward, backs etc will we see whether he can
Really coach or not.
He's had no choice to play the younger ones anyhow.
Our results under him have been a lot worse since he's been there and I certainly don't
Think ill judge him till the end of next year.
Pretty disappointed about the massive fall from grace TBH,
Agree with some of WO comments.

[Greg T]

Plugger 66 wrote
Im more worried about SW ability to develop players in the 3rd or more year. Apart from jack and Armo nearly every player in the 3rd or more year has gone backwards. Some through age and some through injury but that is the main reason we have gone backwards this year. maybe its out of his hands. Who knows.

Good comments ,sums it up really

[prwilkinson]

The acid will be on him next season no doubt about that.

Why? It's pretty obvious that we'll be worse next season than we are this year, so what would be the logic behind having a go at the coach when the inevitable happens?

Because that's what happens in a fishbowl sport like AFL. Doesn't matter if it's logical or not, the footy media will be talking about him.

[kp83]

The question is - what makes a good coach?

Comments please

As I said before, getting the players to buy into your message and do what you want them to do is the first part I would think. Sounds simple but I reckon Neeld at Melbourne didn't have that from the whole list and thus he failed miserably. I reckon Scotty has all on our list following his message and so at the moment I am happy with the way he is going.

Whether that means he will be our next premiership coach, how could anyone possibly know?

[BigMart]

Explain our playing style?

[Eastern]

Explain our playing style?

Geezus !!

We have played 38 or 39 players this year, with 8 or 9 debutants. Near enough to impossible to get a playing style/game plan working in those circumstances. Next year could possibly see more of the same (except injuries, I hope) so I believe that you would really need to be in the inner sanctum to get a handle on where we are at and where we are going.

I think I'll leave it to Chris Pelchen, Nathan Burke & Andrew Thompson to decide !!

[3rd generation saint]

He had a better team last season, and normally would have ended up 8 7 or 6th with the win loss ratio, but due to an exceptional season, finished 9th.
We also had an outstanding percentage last year.
For me, he showed what he's capable of with some half decent cattle.

[Cairnsman]

Gold Coast have us well and trully covered. Obviously I hope we beat them...but anyone that thinks a win or loss agianst the Gold Coast will somehow define SW coaching ability is clearly clueless.

[Cairnsman]

Gold Coast have us well and trully covered. Obviously I hope we beat them...but anyone that thinks a win or loss agianst the Gold Coast will somehow define SW coaching ability is clearly clueless.

[bergholt]

The acid will be on him next season no doubt about that.

Why? It's pretty obvious that we'll be worse next season than we are this year, so what would be the logic behind having a go at the coach when the inevitable happens?

Because that's what happens in a fishbowl sport like AFL. Doesn't matter if it's logical or not, the footy media will be talking about him.

You're probably right, but his actual fate will be decided by the board, based predominantly on how much noise supporters make. If the players are behind him and the supporters accept that we have to go down to come up, then he should be perfectly safe.

Anyway, if we're lucky Carlton will implode and then the Malthouse story will be a much more juicy one.

[Teflon]

lets just stay the course..........pick 3 please.

[Kickit]

Lets pay big bucks to lure a coach out of retirement even though he sais he's not that interested any more.
Oh!... we already did that.

Or we could have someone who is likely to give a rats tossbag.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

A good team!On and off the field!

[Mackaysaint]

sorry if i came off over negative or offensive

just over the constant criticism of a coach who inherited the worst list in the AFL and has actually addressed the issues we had in 2011

we are not going to be any better next year, in fact worse

the issue is the younger players are growing and developing. they are going to have injuries, they are going to have backwards years. our win/loss will suffer because of it, especially as the likes of lenny retire

sorry again, just so god damn frustrated with the constant criticism

Don't apologise - you represent the reasonable majority who accept that losing many of our star players has a consequence on team performance.
The coach has the next generation players doing all the right things - chasing, tackling, one percenters, contested possessions etc.
Those that have been played are showing us why they were selected.
There have been very few blowouts - showing that the coach has been able to keep spirits up and motivate the players.
Our players are quick to re-sign and are comfortable with the payment levels offered.
They want a part of the future that this club is in the process of building.

Posters who are critical of the coach should indicate how St Kilda are going to rebuild a premiership class squad without playing and developing kids.

[AP Erebus]

sorry if i came off over negative or offensive

just over the constant criticism of a coach who inherited the worst list in the AFL and has actually addressed the issues we had in 2011

we are not going to be any better next year, in fact worse

the issue is the younger players are growing and developing. they are going to have injuries, they are going to have backwards years. our win/loss will suffer because of it, especially as the likes of lenny retire

sorry again, just so god damn frustrated with the constant criticism

Don't apologise - you represent the reasonable majority who accept that losing many of our star players has a consequence on team performance.
The coach has the next generation players doing all the right things - chasing, tackling, one percenters, contested possessions etc.
Those that have been played are showing us why they were selected.
There have been very few blowouts - showing that the coach has been able to keep spirits up and motivate the players.
Our players are quick to re-sign and are comfortable with the payment levels offered.
They want a part of the future that this club is in the process of building.

Posters who are critical of the coach should indicate how St Kilda are going to rebuild a premiership class squad without playing and developing kids.

I agree with everything above, I also don't understand what these people want from the young players.

They just don't have the fitness base required to run out a game completely. SW said recently Minchington was cramping at half time in his first game. Kids take time and I find it incongruous to suggest SW is the reason we have one 3 games this year.

I absolutely think they should gift 200 to Kosi because that man's been a stalwart of the club and deserves the recognition and honour.

[FQF]

I'm not sure why people are so certain that next year will be worse than this year.

I am not claiming that I know it will be better, but seeing as our list is very young, it stands to reason that a year forward will be a year of improvement and not decline.

Port Adelaide 2013, Adelaide 2012 and West Coast 2012 proved that it is not so easy to predict how much improvement a team can make in just one season.

Or is everyone just lowering their expectations so that they can't be disappointed?

[gringo]

North melbourne were building a list, every time we played them we beat them up. Scott Thompson would get beat up by Roo and they would put Hansen on him to get beat up too. Eventually they got to a point that they can beat us up because they kept playing them. Really you just have to keep on taking the hits until you are at a point to hit back. If we get some luck with drafting and development happening quicker than average we might be hitting quicker. Doesn't matter if it's Ron Barassi coaching us or the under 9s coach from Sandringham FC. Patience is going to make life easier for everyone.

[Bluthy]

I'm not sure why people are so certain that next year will be worse than this year.

I am not claiming that I know it will be better, but seeing as our list is very young, it stands to reason that a year forward will be a year of improvement and not decline.

Port Adelaide 2013, Adelaide 2012 and West Coast 2012 proved that it is not so easy to predict how much improvement a team can make in just one season.

Or is everyone just lowering their expectations so that they can't be disappointed?

I think we MAY go worse next year because:

1) Hayes, Rooey, Milne, Fisher, Gilbo are all going to either retire or keep declining - that's a hell of a lot of class and leadership disappearing rapidly
2) Up until 50 games under their belt players don't tend to be able to turn their improvement at AFL level into games won - its sort of like building a base you can then push off from to start getting somewhere
3) GWS, GC, Melbourne etc are all way ahead in terms of rebuilding with young players - we will be getting a lot more new recruit babies in this year and next - I would think more than any other club

If we finished 3rd last next year I think that's a win for SW footy style.

[Mackaysaint]

sorry if i came off over negative or offensive

just over the constant criticism of a coach who inherited the worst list in the AFL and has actually addressed the issues we had in 2011

we are not going to be any better next year, in fact worse

the issue is the younger players are growing and developing. they are going to have injuries, they are going to have backwards years. our win/loss will suffer because of it, especially as the likes of lenny retire

sorry again, just so god damn frustrated with the constant criticism

Don't apologise - you represent the reasonable majority who accept that losing many of our star players has a consequence on team performance.
The coach has the next generation players doing all the right things - chasing, tackling, one percenters, contested possessions etc.
Those that have been played are showing us why they were selected.
There have been very few blowouts - showing that the coach has been able to keep spirits up and motivate the players.
Our players are quick to re-sign and are comfortable with the payment levels offered.
They want a part of the future that this club is in the process of building.

Posters who are critical of the coach should indicate how St Kilda are going to rebuild a premiership class squad without playing and developing kids.

I agree with everything above, I also don't understand what these people want from the young players.

They just don't have the fitness base required to run out a game completely. SW said recently Minchington was cramping at half time in his first game. Kids take time and I find it incongruous to suggest SW is the reason we have one 3 games this year.

I absolutely think they should gift 200 to Kosi because that man's been a stalwart of the club and deserves the recognition and honour.

Good post - I agree that Kosi has earned the good will credits to be gifted a final match bringing his total to 200 played for the club.
I personally don't consider it a gift - but I concede the club are honouring the loyalty Kosi has shown. He has worked hard to regain the fitness to put himself up for selection in that final match of 2013 if he is selected - he is will be representing the club as a player and that is exactly what he has been for us already for 199 matches - so why is it a gift?