List management conundrums...

[kp83]

1. Clint Jones - what do people think will happen with this bloke come end of year? He is in that age bracket of experienced players and he can find the footy in the clinches, which can help our developing young midfield when Lenny goes. On the flip side he really is terrible with disposal (even simple handballs today missed targets). It felt today that the Sydney opponents were really happy for him to get the pill because they knew he'd cough it up.

2. The ruck situation. At the end of last season they obviously made it a priority to strengthen this position. Now we have 4 guys on the list who can play the spot (I'm counting Stanley) and to be honest, with all fit I see Hickey and Stanley being the best combination. Benny tries and has that leadership aspect but he is so un-athletic and it seems the modern ruckman can no longer be this way. To be fair though he may be injured at the moment and perhaps what he is dishing out isn't his true game.

If it was at all possible to package these 2 guys up with pick 3 and maybe another player (eg Gwilt, Chips) for pick 1 and guarantee we get the boy Boyd, would people be interested? Personally, I'm leaning towards a yes. People may think that this is paying overs just to move up 2 spots in the draft but GWS won't just hand it to us and if this kid is as good as they are saying...

Go Saints!!

[plugger66]

CJ is worth exactly zero as is Jimmy and Chips maybe worth a fourth rounder. Not sure of bens value but giving lots of ordinary players away doesnt give you better picks. 3 out of those 4 arent really tradable at all.

By the way pick 3 or 4 suits me. i wouldnt be doing anything to change that pick. Another high pick would be good though.

[Little Dozer]

Gwilt will be much better when we get a quality big key defender, setting up play from deep in the back line. Fisher too can return to being a running back where he has previously been excellent. The priority must be to find a key defender via free agency with all the cap room we now have.

[kp83]

CJ is worth exactly zero as is Jimmy and Chips maybe worth a fourth rounder. Not sure of bens value but giving lots of ordinary players away doesnt give you better picks. 3 out of those 4 arent really tradable at all.

By the way pick 3 or 4 suits me. i wouldnt be doing anything to change that pick. Another high pick would be good though.

Fair enough, I agree that CJ has no value in the above hypothetical trade but I reckon Gwilt gives GWS a bigger body that they need and he has good skills too, so I reckon they would see some value in him. You're probably right re Chips.

What are your thoughts on CJ? At the club next year or not?

[plugger66]

CJ is worth exactly zero as is Jimmy and Chips maybe worth a fourth rounder. Not sure of bens value but giving lots of ordinary players away doesnt give you better picks. 3 out of those 4 arent really tradable at all.

By the way pick 3 or 4 suits me. i wouldnt be doing anything to change that pick. Another high pick would be good though.

Fair enough, I agree that CJ has no value in the above hypothetical trade but I reckon Gwilt gives GWS a bigger body that they need and he has good skills too, so I reckon they would see some value in him. You're probably right re Chips.

What are your thoughts on CJ? At the club next year or not?

If Lenny retires then yes and if he doesnt then no.

[Bluthy]

I don't think we will do any deal to get the no 1 pick. I can't see Watters betting the farm on any one player like that particularly if it means losing Ben (unless he really wanted to go to GWS I guess). I think no. 3 will be used for the best mid available. Can't make up my mind about Jonesy. He's relied on his fitness and workrate but the reality is he's going to keep going down hill with age.

[whiskers3614]

I don't think we will do any deal to get the no 1 pick. I can't see Watters betting the farm on any one player like that particularly if it means losing Ben (unless he really wanted to go to GWS I guess). I think no. 3 will be used for the best mid available. Can't make up my mind about Jonesy. He's relied on his fitness and workrate but the reality is he's going to keep going down hill with age.

keep for depth
and to set example for young guys

[Goose is king]

I'm happy to keep Jones because he has a crack.
For the developing, players playing next to jones is important and good for the clubs culture.

[Zed]

I'm happy to keep Jones because he has a crack.
For the developing, players playing next to jones is important and good for the clubs culture.

Agreed

[class of 2010]

I was saying a few weeks ago that it would be crazy to get rid of benny mac but the last few weeks have begun to change my mind a little. This season has shown that Stanley plays his best football forward of centre and the second half of todays game shows Hickey thrives on being the bloke at the majority of stoppages. I really rate ben as a footballer and the second half of this year may well have been soured by injury but if we could get a Taylor Adams and pick 1 or the pick 1 and 10 combo for ben and pick 3 I reckon in a few years we'd be calling the pelican a genius. Ben is also such a country lad that you get the feeling he'll hang up the boots earlier than most in pursuit of a simpler, more relaxed lifestyle. A trade like that, although controversial would help set up the club for years to come. At pick 10 one of Salem, Dunstan, Sheed, Crouch, Billings, Bontempelli or Taylor will be around and we can pick up Boyd with pick 1. If one of those turns out to be a star, and the other plays 150 games we've net gained on the trade. Although Ben is the best of the 4 ruckman (Ben, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce) at the moment, the loss we take as a result of him not being in the team is relatively small.

[Con Gorozidis]

Id keep Jones.. just... although maybe Shenton can play as a tagger? We need to find out quick smart.

I dont think we need both Gwilt and Dempster. Happy to lose one of them.

Also I think Stanley and Hickey would be a great ruck duo going fwd. Keep a kid like Pierce and then an old warrior who plays as a back up for Sandy.

If GWS want Ben Id take a top 20 pick for him.

[maverick]

I reckon Jones will get cut.
I thought today he was very ordinary and let us down with our ball movement.
I know he works hard and does have something to offer, but I reckon he will hold us back denying a spot to a younger player.

[Wayne42]

I think the GWS recruiters will be watching all the teams play, they will have seen the Big Mac play, they'll know and probably think the same about him as a lot of posters on here do, why would
they then offer up their No.1 pick for him..

We'd laugh at them and so would the other 17 clubs if they took Big Mac for a round 1 pick, it won't happen..

[skeptic]

If you could get something decent for Big Mac, I'd take it and live in fear of having egg on my face... he's just getting beaten too often. Possibly needs to bulk up +++ and become a marking machine rather than play as a roaming giant

[spot on]

What bout pick 10 for macca?

[St Ick]

I think the GWS recruiters will be watching all the teams play, they will have seen the Big Mac play, they'll know and probably think the same about him as a lot of posters on here do, why would
they then offer up their No.1 pick for him..

We'd laugh at them and so would the other 17 clubs if they took Big Mac for a round 1 pick, it won't happen..

Ben is what, 24? Clubs overpay for mature rucks all the time. Ben is absolutely worth a first round pick, not pick one but if its genuinely on the table then I'm not against adding something to it.

Remember White isn't a guarantee to be anything even remotely similar to a consistant AFL footballer, let alone an elite one.

[WinnersOnly]

I would trade McEvoy tomorrow if GWS offered a reasonable deal eg McEvoy Pick 3 for Pick 1 & 10.

The two standout draft choices are Boyd and Aish, but after that the remainder of the top 10 appear very even so would be happy to give up Pick 3 if we got Pick 10 and Boyd in return.

[Bluthy]

Although Ben is the best of the 4 ruckman (Ben, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce) at the moment, the loss we take as a result of him not being in the team is relatively small.

So we trade Ben. What happens if Hickey gets injured? So Stanley now has to learn the full time ruck position as well? Or throw Pierce in when not ready and he gets physically and mentally destroyed? Or Lee does it when he's not a ruckman? Or Blake!!! You've got to have back ups and a back up to your backup because murphys law says the unexepected will happen when you can least afford it. Plus you want serious competition for spots. You look at the premiership teams and they always have at least 3 quality ruckman trying to get 1 or 2 ruck spots.

[PADDLEPOP1001]

Although Ben is the best of the 4 ruckman (Ben, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce) at the moment, the loss we take as a result of him not being in the team is relatively small.

So we trade Ben. What happens if Hickey gets injured? So Stanley now has to learn the full time ruck position as well? Or throw Pierce in when not ready and he gets physically and mentally destroyed? Or Lee does it when he's not a ruckman? Or Blake!!! You've got to have back ups and a back up to your backup because murphys law says the unexepected will happen when you can least afford it. Plus you want serious competition for spots. You look at the premiership teams and they always have at least 3 quality ruckman trying to get 1 or 2 ruck spots.

At the moment Mcevoy is not a quality ruck man!

[Life Long Saint]

Although Ben is the best of the 4 ruckman (Ben, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce) at the moment, the loss we take as a result of him not being in the team is relatively small.

So we trade Ben. What happens if Hickey gets injured? So Stanley now has to learn the full time ruck position as well? Or throw Pierce in when not ready and he gets physically and mentally destroyed? Or Lee does it when he's not a ruckman? Or Blake!!! You've got to have back ups and a back up to your backup because murphys law says the unexepected will happen when you can least afford it. Plus you want serious competition for spots. You look at the premiership teams and they always have at least 3 quality ruckman trying to get 1 or 2 ruck spots.

So what if you trade out McEvoy and trade in one of the Carlton ruckmen for a low pick.
Hampson could be acquired for a relatively cheap pick. Maybe even for nothing if the Blues delist him.

[class of 2010]

Although Ben is the best of the 4 ruckman (Ben, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce) at the moment, the loss we take as a result of him not being in the team is relatively small.

So we trade Ben. What happens if Hickey gets injured? So Stanley now has to learn the full time ruck position as well? Or throw Pierce in when not ready and he gets physically and mentally destroyed? Or Lee does it when he's not a ruckman? Or Blake!!! You've got to have back ups and a back up to your backup because murphys law says the unexepected will happen when you can least afford it. Plus you want serious competition for spots. You look at the premiership teams and they always have at least 3 quality ruckman trying to get 1 or 2 ruck spots.

So what if you trade out McEvoy and trade in one of the Carlton ruckmen for a low pick.
Hampson could be acquired for a relatively cheap pick. Maybe even for nothing if the Blues delist him.

I agree that you need more ruckmen on the list than can play at the 1 time for competition and back-up but looking at the age profile of our rucks and the fact that Hickey and ben both only play the 1 position (even mummy and Pyke play forward serviceably) one of Hickey and Mac will be out of the side or relegated to sub for the rest of their careers all things going well which I see as being an in-efficient use of the value they represent.

I want us to pick up a Hamish Sheppard (Sandy) or Joel Tippet as a rookie or even a state league ruckman as a rookie should we trade one out. The two I mentioned are back up rucks in the blake mould (back and ruck) who could form a partnership with stanley or whoever it may be that is in the side rucking part time.

[kp83]

Although Ben is the best of the 4 ruckman (Ben, Hickey, Stanley, Pierce) at the moment, the loss we take as a result of him not being in the team is relatively small.

So we trade Ben. What happens if Hickey gets injured? So Stanley now has to learn the full time ruck position as well? Or throw Pierce in when not ready and he gets physically and mentally destroyed? Or Lee does it when he's not a ruckman? Or Blake!!! You've got to have back ups and a back up to your backup because murphys law says the unexepected will happen when you can least afford it. Plus you want serious competition for spots. You look at the premiership teams and they always have at least 3 quality ruckman trying to get 1 or 2 ruck spots.

We aren't going to win a premiership in the next few years, so that gives us time to draft in more support in the ruck department. Perhaps draft in a mature age VFL ruckman for example (? Sheppard). That way we are still covered in your Murphy's Law scenario.

[dragit]

I'm happy to keep Jones because he has a crack.
For the developing, players playing next to jones is important and good for the clubs culture.

Agreed

Disagree, I reckon seeing a bloke who is 30 years old, still not confident enough to kick the ball… sets a bad culture.

As Watters said earlier in the year…

We need blokes who can set an example for skill and effort, trying hard is simply not enough.

We have Roo, Joey, Dal, Lenny, Dempster, Gilbert, Geary etc to set examples of effort… enough of a bloke with the worst skills in the AFL.

[joffaboy]

Ludicrious to be talking about McEvoy as a trade.

We have one of the few key areas with future potential as a long term settled problem in Mac and Hickey (who despite bleating by some on here shows he will be a ruckman who can play AFL) for seasons to come.

Look what happened last season with only Mac as ruckman. We were majorly exposed.

All year we have been exposed by tall forwards. Gumbleton, Riewoldt, Henderson, etc every single week. Yesterday it was Pike and Tippett.

Many on here were happy to see Dawson go. Many were happy we didn't get Brown. Well we have a gaping hole being exposed every single week because we dont have a back man.

So how do you stop it getting down back while we develop a fullback over the next couple of seasons? You develop your ruck and clearance work so the ball is going in the opposite direction and pressure is on the opposition midfield.

Well you cant do that by trading a bloody ruckman that has been good all year and has dropped off in the latter part probably because he either is carrying an injury or has run out of juice.

We will be flogged mercilessly next season if we got rid of our main ruckman.

Please think of the consequence of panicking and getting rid of the only seasoned ruckman we have.

[dragit]

You develop your ruck and clearance work so the ball is going in the opposite direction and pressure is on the opposition midfield.

We will be flogged mercilessly next season if we got rid of our main ruckman.

We will be flogged mercilessly next year anyway.

McEvoy doesn't win hitouts, I can't remember him winning them in a match ever… so that doesn't help our clearance work much.

I hear what you're saying though, we have developed him for 5 or so years… here's hoping he still has heaps of improvement, unfortunately right now he has stagnated.

Trade only if it's a super deal.