Anyone hear Ross Lyon on Grandstand ABC?

[joffaboy]

Despite trolls like freebird (who only ever posts to try to start flame wars) I stand by what I said.

I almost alone on this forum was against the howling mob and their asasine baying for blood of the Butters Admin.

The same admin that gave us multiple profits and a very good football team through canny recruiting and drafting.

I got abusive PM's because I wouldn't toe the line of the irrational lemmings who wanted Westaway without any scrutiny.

So we fast forward to 2013, te club is once again broke, and the Westaway administration appointed recruiters who destroy our list.

And freebird I critisised Bigmart who bagged out Howard the second he was recruited. I said give the kid a chance, but then again you are just a BigMart groupie who thinks he is the SS equilivent of the cult of James Hird

Maybe you are BigMart considering you slavishly follow every word he has ever muttered.
Go away troll, grown ups are talking.

[Trev from the Bush]

I would suggest that posters on this tread have another read of the subject before posting more rabid drivel on the pros and cons of Ross Lyon. It has been done to death; get over it and move on.

Now, for some real interest - WHAT DID ROSS LYON HAVE TO SAY ON SEN???????

[Trev from the Bush]

WHAT DID ROSS LYON HAVE TO SAY ON SEN???????

Correction, I git sidetracked like everybody else. Ross Lyon was on the ABC, was he?

[stinger]

Point is 2004-2010 our recruiting/development was the worst in the League.

The whole club culture should be blamed rather than pointing the finger at individuals.

As mad saint guy said - As soon as we got some on-field success everyone took the eye off the future.

Finally seeing the writing on the wall and Hiring Pelchen was acknowledgement of that.

And now we are paying the piper for 2004-2010.

have to agree 100% with you there...

[Freebird]

You idiot Jb and you still have no idea why we critsized the drafting....

We all hoped he would be a good player you tool

[Animal Enclosure]

Loved Ross & still think he's just about the best in the business.

Disappointed that he didn't back himself to rebuild & reinvent himself as a great developer of young footballers.

[bobmurray]

I believe it's a fact that Grant Thomas had a big hand in developing the core of the list that Lyin took to failed Grand Finals.

I also believe it's fact that Mark Harvey developed a lot of the players that augment the senior players on Freo's list that Lyin is now relying on to get him a flag.

Lyin is not a developer of junior talent, he is a moulder of proven talent, it's what he's good at, no shame in that, it just means he has to move on when the goose is cooked, which is what he did,
disguised as a personal financial predicament....

[saintbrat]

He just said some +ve things about SW and the Saints.
Said if we do everything right then its a 3 year turn around etc etc
Said the old group took us a long way and its only natural to go down etc etc
Said it happens but we are on the right track etc etc

was he on during this program
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-08-17/a ... tion=sport

[joffaboy]

I believe it's a fact that Grant Thomas had a big hand in developing the core of the list that Lyin took to failed Grand Finals.

I also believe it's fact that Mark Harvey developed a lot of the players that augment the senior players on Freo's list that Lyin is now relying on to get him a flag.

Lyin is not a developer of junior talent, he is a moulder of proven talent, it's what he's good at, no shame in that, it just means he has to move on when the goose is cooked, which is what he did,
disguised as a personal financial predicament....

This is spot on re Lyon.

[spert]

I believe it's a fact that Grant Thomas had a big hand in developing the core of the list that Lyin took to failed Grand Finals.

I also believe it's fact that Mark Harvey developed a lot of the players that augment the senior players on Freo's list that Lyin is now relying on to get him a flag.

Lyin is not a developer of junior talent, he is a moulder of proven talent, it's what he's good at, no shame in that, it just means he has to move on when the goose is cooked, which is what he did,
disguised as a personal financial predicament....

This is spot on re Lyon.

Pretty much agree, though everyone has their price and Freo found Lyon's. He is good at getting the most our of what he has, but he doesn't think outside the box and will probably coach a lot of teams into finals and never get a premiership.

[plugger66]

I believe it's a fact that Grant Thomas had a big hand in developing the core of the list that Lyin took to failed Grand Finals.

I also believe it's fact that Mark Harvey developed a lot of the players that augment the senior players on Freo's list that Lyin is now relying on to get him a flag.

Lyin is not a developer of junior talent, he is a moulder of proven talent, it's what he's good at, no shame in that, it just means he has to move on when the goose is cooked, which is what he did,
disguised as a personal financial predicament....

This is spot on re Lyon.

Pretty much agree, though everyone has their price and Freo found Lyon's. He is good at getting the most our of what he has, but he doesn't think outside the box and will probably coach a lot of teams into finals and never get a premiership.

I would have thought the saints game plan in 2009 was completely out of the box and even though we lost 2 GF's in a row im struggling to work out why he wont win one apart from them being very hard to win. I believe he improves good sides enough to get close to the last Saturday in September and with luck will win one. As saints supporters we know a little luck is needed to win a GF as well as great players and a great coach.

[gringo]

I would have thought the saints game plan in 2009 was completely out of the box and even though we lost 2 GF's in a row im struggling to work out why he wont win one apart from them being very hard to win. I believe he improves good sides enough to get close to the last Saturday in September and with luck will win one. As saints supporters we know a little luck is needed to win a GF as well as great players and a great coach.

I think you are right. Unfortunately i think he's probably got plenty of experience from his time with us and probably has at least 5 to 6 better bottom end players at Freo. They run really deep and the AFL seem happy to gift them a fixture that should get them every chance of winning one.

They could pinch one this year even as I think there is no clear standout in the top 4 like there usually is. Sydney, Geelong and Hawthorn don't look a mile in front of them ATM and with his grinding game plan they are always in it.

[The Redeemer]

Despite trolls like freebird (who only ever posts to try to start flame wars) I stand by what I said.

I almost alone on this forum was against the howling mob and their asasine baying for blood of the Butters Admin.

The same admin that gave us multiple profits and a very good football team through canny recruiting and drafting.

I got abusive PM's because I wouldn't toe the line of the irrational lemmings who wanted Westaway without any scrutiny.

So we fast forward to 2013, te club is once again broke, and the Westaway administration appointed recruiters who destroy our list.

And freebird I critisised Bigmart who bagged out Howard the second he was recruited. I said give the kid a chance, but then again you are just a BigMart groupie who thinks he is the SS equilivent of the cult of James Hird

Maybe you are BigMart considering you slavishly follow every word he has ever muttered.
Go away troll, grown ups are talking.

God you go hard. You remind me of me when I was Zac Attack and SP2008.

Keep up the good work.

We were in the premiership hunt thus developing youngens was not high on the list of 'to dos'.

We came within a bees dick of being back-to-back premiers. That sucks.

The Butters admin was a usual Coalition govt post-Labor financial mismanagement. The quickest way to get back into the black is cut and cut hard. They did a wonderful job making us relevant again despite the bitter fall-out between GT and RB

So in a nutshell. s*** happens.

We did not win and thus out development of players lacked. I was certainly content not developing Brad Howard whilst we were winning 70 per cent of our games.

Suck it up peeps and lets support the next batch of good'uns!

[stevie]

I would have thought the saints game plan in 2009 was completely out of the box and even though we lost 2 GF's in a row im struggling to work out why he wont win one apart from them being very hard to win. I believe he improves good sides enough to get close to the last Saturday in September and with luck will win one. As saints supporters we know a little luck is needed to win a GF as well as great players and a great coach.

I think you are right. Unfortunately i think he's probably got plenty of experience from his time with us and probably has at least 5 to 6 better bottom end players at Freo. They run really deep and the AFL seem happy to gift them a fixture that should get them every chance of winning one.

They could pinch one this year even as I think there is no clear standout in the top 4 like there usually is. Sydney, Geelong and Hawthorn don't look a mile in front of them ATM and with his grinding game plan they are always in it.

True. Freo don't have to beat a team of the calibre of Geelong from 09 like we had to. Then again, the Cats had to beat a team as good as we were then (if that makes sense). And the Flilth team of 2010 is better then current top 4.

[gringo]

Despite trolls like freebird (who only ever posts to try to start flame wars) I stand by what I said.

I almost alone on this forum was against the howling mob and their asasine baying for blood of the Butters Admin.

The same admin that gave us multiple profits and a very good football team through canny recruiting and drafting.

I got abusive PM's because I wouldn't toe the line of the irrational lemmings who wanted Westaway without any scrutiny.

So we fast forward to 2013, te club is once again broke, and the Westaway administration appointed recruiters who destroy our list.

And freebird I critisised Bigmart who bagged out Howard the second he was recruited. I said give the kid a chance, but then again you are just a BigMart groupie who thinks he is the SS equilivent of the cult of James Hird

Maybe you are BigMart considering you slavishly follow every word he has ever muttered.
Go away troll, grown ups are talking.

God you go hard. You remind me of me when I was Zac Attack and SP2008.

Keep up the good work.

We were in the premiership hunt thus developing youngens was not high on the list of 'to dos'.

We came within a bees dick of being back-to-back premiers. That sucks.

The Butters admin was a usual Coalition govt post-Labor financial mismanagement. The quickest way to get back into the black is cut and cut hard. They did a wonderful job making us relevant again despite the bitter fall-out between GT and RB

So in a nutshell. s*** happens.

We did not win and thus out development of players lacked. I was certainly content not developing Brad Howard whilst we were winning 70 per cent of our games.

Suck it up peeps and lets support the next batch of good'uns!

I tend to agree- you just have to learn from the past but you can't live in it. The future kids are getting chances and we need to watch them develop and hope they become stars. That's all you can do now.

Were you really Zac Attack- I might need a tire iron to take your knee caps off. Sheesh he was annoying.

[Sainter93]

Tosser

Sums him up really.

[Megamaguire]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

Just thought i'd echo the Saints guy who rang into SEN last week pointing out how Westaway could have sunk the Saints unknowingly when he insisted against the fans and coach that we wouldn't get Cousins into our top 4 challenging team.
I agree.

I thought Cousins was worth the roll of the dice - if he stuffed up he simply wouldn't get picked. I hated it that we weren't a big enough club 'In our own heads ' to wear the sponsor angst.
watching the GF draw on free 2 air (Sun) and thinking what might have ben !
Lyon wanted him in the team and that was good enough 4 me.
Maybe Westway was good in other aspects but Cousins was a gift we turned our backs on .

This should not happen again!!!

G O SAINTS!

[stinger]

God you go hard. You remind me of me when I was Zac Attack and SP2008.

!

..there's a couple of other nicks i could mention too.....

[Playon]

Brown-nosing?...wants to come back when Freo have run out of chances and he destroys the Dockers list?

Agreed. Lyon is a good coach but a parasite. Took a team developed by Thomas and topped up with role players and a great defensive gameplan almost got us there.

Took the Dockers developed by Harvey and with top up players and a great defensive plan has them top four and challenging.

Once they have had their go he will look to move on to someone like Gold Coast or North melbourne, where all the hard development work has been done.

Yeah and Thomas took a team developed by Watson. With the picks that Thomas had lets not even go down THAT path.

[The Fireman]

where is B4E ?

[ShanghaiSaint]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

Just thought i'd echo the Saints guy who rang into SEN last week pointing out how Westaway could have sunk the Saints unknowingly when he insisted against the fans and coach that we wouldn't get Cousins into our top 4 challenging team.
I agree.

I thought Cousins was worth the roll of the dice - if he stuffed up he simply wouldn't get picked. I hated it that we weren't a big enough club 'In our own heads ' to wear the sponsor angst.
watching the GF draw on free 2 air (Sun) and thinking what might have ben !
Lyon wanted him in the team and that was good enough 4 me.
Maybe Westway was good in other aspects but Cousins was a gift we turned our backs on .

This should not happen again!!!

G O SAINTS!

well they rolled the dice on Lovett and that screwed up... not that Ben was anything like him.. shows when so no to one risky play and take the next the gamble can come very much unstuck.

I will be pissed with Lovett for a long time... his pace was just what we needed in 2010 and he imo could have been a deciding factor in GF1 just like Ben could have been plus in GF 2009.

[SaintPav]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

Just thought i'd echo the Saints guy who rang into SEN last week pointing out how Westaway could have sunk the Saints unknowingly when he insisted against the fans and coach that we wouldn't get Cousins into our top 4 challenging team.
I agree.

I thought Cousins was worth the roll of the dice - if he stuffed up he simply wouldn't get picked. I hated it that we weren't a big enough club 'In our own heads ' to wear the sponsor angst.
watching the GF draw on free 2 air (Sun) and thinking what might have ben !
Lyon wanted him in the team and that was good enough 4 me.
Maybe Westway was good in other aspects but Cousins was a gift we turned our backs on .

This should not happen again!!!

G O SAINTS!

I can't agree on this at all. Cousins was a huge risk and at that stage was probably only an above average player. He was supposed to go to Collingwood before us but they passed as he was seen as too much of a risk.

The club has made a number of errors but they made the right choice on Cousins and given what transpired in he following two years, thank god they did.

[averypr]

Ross Lyon has a very good game plan that will get his sides into finals. However he does not develop players with imagination & awareness to cope with just as talented sides that make unusual plays or target Ross's main play maker. He makes sure everyone sticks to his game plan which stacks up against the majority of sides but plays with a high risk against the quality sides because teh scores will always be close.

All clubs succeed because they have a Board with a high knowledge of how to run all the aspects of a business & a sports organisation. They also ask the right questions to ensure the people running the club (CEO, Head Coach, Football Mgr) are heading in the right direction and making the right calls on spending, playing list - short & long term, marketing, members. The Board must have robust discussion on ways forward and be willing to look for newer ways to improve. i.e. go overseas because they do it better than here and are more likely to learn more overseas than here.

When you get all this right you have a chance to succeed in September.

Personally I believe SW is doing a very good job with developing our current players plus his game plans have won us a few games even when our talent is not as good as the opposition. How he goes over the trade/draft period will be a big test & determine how long we will struggle. They are great opportunities for those prepared to put in the effort. Lets hope our clubs resources are not a deterent to being successful at trade/draft time.

[Bluthy]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

Just thought i'd echo the Saints guy who rang into SEN last week pointing out how Westaway could have sunk the Saints unknowingly when he insisted against the fans and coach that we wouldn't get Cousins into our top 4 challenging team.
I agree.

I thought Cousins was worth the roll of the dice - if he stuffed up he simply wouldn't get picked. I hated it that we weren't a big enough club 'In our own heads ' to wear the sponsor angst.
watching the GF draw on free 2 air (Sun) and thinking what might have ben !
Lyon wanted him in the team and that was good enough 4 me.
Maybe Westway was good in other aspects but Cousins was a gift we turned our backs on .

This should not happen again!!!

G O SAINTS!

I can't agree on this at all. Cousins was a huge risk and at that stage was probably only an above average player. He was supposed to go to Collingwood before us but they passed as he was seen as too much of a risk.

The club has made a number of errors but they made the right choice on Cousins and given what transpired in he following two years, thank god they did.

I just finished reading Cousins book and its a fascinating read - a brutally honest account of his drug addiction and fall from grace. It definitely humanises him from the smirking arrogant dick that he came across as. He has a lot of heart which we could have used as he was a great team man. He was a huge risk though and that media circus that came with him would have been very distracting. Maybe could have been a handy pinch hitter off the bench but that's all hindsight isn't it. At the time I thought they made the right call.

[QuestionOfAccuracy]

I still reckon the abysmal recruitment record from 2006-10 wasnt his fault.

Where was the Board? Where was the CEO? Where was the Footy Mgr? Where was the Recruiting Mgr?

Totally agree. Said management structures are put in place to identify when things are going awry.