Anyone hear Ross Lyon on Grandstand ABC?

[Con Gorozidis]

He just said some +ve things about SW and the Saints.
Said if we do everything right then its a 3 year turn around etc etc
Said the old group took us a long way and its only natural to go down etc etc
Said it happens but we are on the right track etc etc

[Munga]

It's certainly a better way to go about things and endear himself a little to his old supporters.

[SainterK]

Yes better than whinging about the facilities

[saintspremiers]

Tosser

[BakesFan]

Brown-nosing?...wants to come back when Freo have run out of chances and he destroys the Dockers list?

[Con Gorozidis]

I still reckon the abysmal recruitment record from 2006-10 wasnt his fault.

Where was the Board? Where was the CEO? Where was the Footy Mgr? Where was the Recruiting Mgr?

[joffaboy]

Brown-nosing?...wants to come back when Freo have run out of chances and he destroys the Dockers list?

Agreed. Lyon is a good coach but a parasite. Took a team developed by Thomas and topped up with role players and a great defensive gameplan almost got us there.

Took the Dockers developed by Harvey and with top up players and a great defensive plan has them top four and challenging.

Once they have had their go he will look to move on to someone like Gold Coast or North melbourne, where all the hard development work has been done.

[joffaboy]

I still reckon the abysmal recruitment record from 2006-10 wasnt his fault.

Where was the Board? Where was the CEO? Where was the Footy Mgr? Where was the Recruiting Mgr?

I asked the question about Footy First takeover and were howled down by the baying mob.

Look at our recruitment under Butters compared to this mob.

Apologies accepted from the all of you who tried to bully me on here because i asked the hard questions of this mob.

Look at our finances under Butters and our development and compare them to Westaway and his rabble.

I feel vindicated.

[stinger]

It's certainly a better way to go about things and endear himself a little to his old supporters.

nope....in the s*** with me for the rest of my life..if not his......no way back afaic...not that lyon would give a rats about that one way or the other....

[gringo]

There were concerns that Ross had control over too many facets of the club. He lost a lot of assistants because he was a person with a massive personal drive and was not someone who suffered anyone not committed to the cause but then often didn't like delegating tasks.

Pelchen was considered an affront to his autonomy at the club and was probably the reason he walked in the end. He was pretty smart to walk when the going got tough because a few years down the bottom would have reset how he is viewed.

[Buckets]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

[Con Gorozidis]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

None directly - but they hire the right people and set up the right structures to get best results from their staff.

Another quick question
How many clubs let one single person run every single facet of the place and every single decision?
Whose fault is it if that is allowed to happen?

[Con Gorozidis]

I still reckon the abysmal recruitment record from 2006-10 wasnt his fault.

Where was the Board? Where was the CEO? Where was the Footy Mgr? Where was the Recruiting Mgr?

I asked the question about Footy First takeover and were howled down by the baying mob.

Look at our recruitment under Butters compared to this mob.

Apologies accepted from the all of you who tried to bully me on here because i asked the hard questions of this mob.

Look at our finances under Butters and our development and compare them to Westaway and his rabble.

I feel vindicated.

Im with you JB. Butters lay the foundation for our successful era.
Westaway stagnated or took us backwards into some amateur style practices and everyone has dumped the blame on Lyon.
The fact is there were no systems in place and no recruitment budget or structure so Lyon filled the vaccuum .
We only belatedly realised this and did something about it 2 years ago.

[Con Gorozidis]

There were concerns that Ross had control over too many facets of the club. He lost a lot of assistants because he was a person with a massive personal drive and was not someone who suffered anyone not committed to the cause but then often didn't like delegating tasks.

Pelchen was considered an affront to his autonomy at the club and was probably the reason he walked in the end. He was pretty smart to walk when the going got tough because a few years down the bottom would have reset how he is viewed.

Again whose fault is that?
Where was the CEO? Where was the footy mgr? Where was the Board? Where was the Rectruitment and list Managers?
Oh we didnt have any?

If we had a ceo who said ok ross - here are your responsibilites and scope and Recruitment and footy mgrs - here are yours. None of this would have happened.
But surely the BUCK STOPS with the Board and CEO for setting up the structures?

If people let Ross 'have control of too many facets' its because those above him were weak as piss or had no idea or were incompetent or didnt know what they were doing.

I dont want us to be one of those clubs (like essendon atm) who are unable to accept responsibility for their own failures but chose to make an 'outsider' the fall guy.

We already see it with some anti SW brigade. Its easier to blame the 'outsider' than face up to the structural and endemic flaws in our own structures.

We should have had a strong independent recruitment and list mgt system between 2006 and 2010 - we didnt. Thats our fault.

[Freebird]

JB you're funny (edited by MODS>

Don't you remember critizising anyone and everone who had a shot at our recruiters for taking Howard so early..."you don't know he won't be any good etc etc, but it was not the drafting of Howard that was critised it was taking an unknown so early....you never did understand logic

You absolutely attacked everyone...then you sook when attacked. A bit of Harry in you

Self confessed "know it alls" hold no weight

I guess you <edited by MODS> would not understand

[gringo]

There were concerns that Ross had control over too many facets of the club. He lost a lot of assistants because he was a person with a massive personal drive and was not someone who suffered anyone not committed to the cause but then often didn't like delegating tasks.

Pelchen was considered an affront to his autonomy at the club and was probably the reason he walked in the end. He was pretty smart to walk when the going got tough because a few years down the bottom would have reset how he is viewed.

Again whose fault is that?
Where was the CEO? Where was the footy mgr? Where was the Board? Where was the Rectruitment and list Managers?
Oh we didnt have any?

If we had a ceo who said ok ross - here are your responsibilites and scope and Recruitment and footy mgrs - here are yours. None of this would have happened.
But surely the BUCK STOPS with the Board and CEO for setting up the structures?

If people let Ross 'have control of too many facets' its because those above him were weak as piss or had no idea or were incompetent or didnt know what they were doing.

I dont want us to be one of those clubs (like essendon atm) who are unable to accept responsibility for their own failures but chose to make an 'outsider' the fall guy.

We already see it with some anti SW brigade. Its easier to blame the 'outsider' than face up to the structural and endemic flaws in our own structures.

We should have had a strong independent recruitment and list mgt system between 2006 and 2010 - we didnt. Thats our fault.

I think what you find is the divide between the rich and poor clubs. The good clubs got in early and the rest of us were playing catch up- Ross bought systems from his time at Sydney that he used like the fitness and conditioning staff. That's what I like about Scott Watters he comes with a structure first but with in our means attitude. And I think the thing that we get with Pelchen is that long term vision, not lets load up for the now type vision.

If you think back to the days of GT the way the clubs structured up were so amateurish compared to now. Luke Ball came to my kids footy club and he said the first thing he noticed when he went from ST Kilda to the Pies was the facilities. Compared them to going from a country footy club to Manchester united with staff members and equipment for everything.

[mad saint guy]

I asked the question about Footy First takeover and were howled down by the baying mob.

Look at our recruitment under Butters compared to this mob.

Apologies accepted from the all of you who tried to bully me on here because i asked the hard questions of this mob.

Look at our finances under Butters and our development and compare them to Westaway and his rabble.

I feel vindicated.

Our terrible recruiting started in 2004. As soon as we had some on field success, no one at St Kilda seemed too concerned with drafting and developing young talent.

Here are our national draft picks from 2004-2006

McQualter
Ackland
McGough
Gwilt*
Gilbert*
Rix
Raymond
Sweeney
Armitage*
Howard
Allen
Ferguson

Three players in three years is a terrible record, coupled with the fact that we traded Pick 17 for Fergus Watts and Heath Black for Aaron Fiora. Our deplorable recruiting was an issue long before Footy First arrived. At least they improved football department spending and went after the best fitness staff in the business while we were challenging. If we had a decent conditioning and injury prevention program from 2004-2006 we may well have scored our second flag. Our injury list in September in each of those years was horrific. Butterss and Thomas did some great things for St Kilda but they also severely neglected crucial aspects of running a professional footy club.

[Buckets]

Just a quick question..how many CEOs and Presidents of their club take part in drafting and recruiting?

None directly - but they hire the right people and set up the right structures to get best results from their staff.

Another quick question
How many clubs let one single person run every single facet of the place and every single decision?
Whose fault is it if that is allowed to happen?

Hmm I do remember that Bomber Thompson had way too much at one point.


Thats why there are Football directors. Which is why the CEO got Pelchin in.

[sainterjo]

I feel vindicated.

Essendon should be deregistered for bringing words into disrepute.

[Teflon]

I asked the question about Footy First takeover and were howled down by the baying mob.

Look at our recruitment under Butters compared to this mob.

Apologies accepted from the all of you who tried to bully me on here because i asked the hard questions of this mob.

Look at our finances under Butters and our development and compare them to Westaway and his rabble.

I feel vindicated.

Our terrible recruiting started in 2004. As soon as we had some on field success, no one at St Kilda seemed too concerned with drafting and developing young talent.

Here are our national draft picks from 2004-2006

McQualter
Ackland
McGough
Gwilt*
Gilbert*
Rix
Raymond
Sweeney
Armitage*
Howard
Allen
Ferguson

Three players in three years is a terrible record, coupled with the fact that we traded Pick 17 for Fergus Watts and Heath Black for Aaron Fiora. Our deplorable recruiting was an issue long before Footy First arrived. At least they improved football department spending and went after the best fitness staff in the business while we were challenging. If we had a decent conditioning and injury prevention program from 2004-2006 we may well have scored our second flag. Our injury list in September in each of those years was horrific. Butterss and Thomas did some great things for St Kilda but they also severely neglected crucial aspects of running a professional footy club.

sad list that...some would have you believe all was gold under Thomas...it wasnt

[3rd generation saint]

Actually the saddest thing on that list mad saint guy is Allen. He could have been a player but his career was cut down before it really started by injury.

[Con Gorozidis]

Point is 2004-2010 our recruiting/development was the worst in the League.

The whole club culture should be blamed rather than pointing the finger at individuals.

As mad saint guy said - As soon as we got some on-field success everyone took the eye off the future.

Finally seeing the writing on the wall and Hiring Pelchen was acknowledgement of that.

And now we are paying the piper for 2004-2010.

[Spinner]

Brown-nosing?...wants to come back when Freo have run out of chances and he destroys the Dockers list?

Agreed. Lyon is a good coach but a parasite. Took a team developed by Thomas and topped up with role players and a great defensive gameplan almost got us there.

Took the Dockers developed by Harvey and with top up players and a great defensive plan has them top four and challenging.

Once they have had their go he will look to move on to someone like Gold Coast or North melbourne, where all the hard development work has been done.

What a load of sh1t.

He has completely transformed Fremantle in less than 2 years. This year without Pavlich Sandilands and others for majority of the season.

Watch a couple of Freo games - then have an opinion.

Or maybe a little quicker, look at the ladder and the list on Wikipedia.

[St Lenny]

Get a grip. The Board runs the business aspect of the Club, nothing to do with recruiting. And if I remember correctly everyone whinged about Butters and how useless he was. Now it seems these same people have forgotten why he was kicked out.

[gringo]

Brown-nosing?...wants to come back when Freo have run out of chances and he destroys the Dockers list?

Agreed. Lyon is a good coach but a parasite. Took a team developed by Thomas and topped up with role players and a great defensive gameplan almost got us there.

Took the Dockers developed by Harvey and with top up players and a great defensive plan has them top four and challenging.

Once they have had their go he will look to move on to someone like Gold Coast or North melbourne, where all the hard development work has been done.

What a load of sh1t.

He has completely transformed Fremantle in less than 2 years. This year without Pavlich Sandilands and others for majority of the season.

Watch a couple of Freo games - then have an opinion.

Or maybe a little quicker, look at the ladder and the list on Wikipedia.

Freo got games into heaps of players while they had a heap of injuries. That was a leg up that was a blessing in disguise. Like Hawthorn they now have a very even list. It's pretty hard to measure what was given to him and what he created.